Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
One massive topic to cover eventually is how to deal with telepaths in Human population.

Of course there must be some form of control present, no matter what Byron's hippie cult may think. My suggestion would be to not rely on Psi Corps, however, since they are organisation within organisation virtually impossible to keep in check by other parts of Earth's bureaucracy.
How about to form military branch of telepathic soldiers and operatives, within Earth Force's command structure? And in case of retirement or honorable discharge, they could remain completely free of Psi Corps and any limitations put on civilian telepaths.

Osa64.gif

There was such organisation in System Shock 2 (although they never explained what O.S.A. stands for). Could be Office of Secret Affairs or whatever, implying it's mostly about counter intelligence and black ops.

And of course, Lyta Alexander in officer's uniform would be even more hot and also better enemy of Bester :)
 
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DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
One massive topic to cover eventually is how to deal with telepaths in Human population.

The contradictions presented by the natural Aristocracy of the Telepaths will be extraordinarily difficult to resolve within the context of a liberal democratic paradigm that operates as a legitimization machine for the desires of the Oligarchs who buy and sell the EA Senators.

The Oligarchs will want to control the Telepaths and the Telepaths will resent this. One possible resolution of the progression of disharmony would be for the Telepaths and Oligarchs to intermarry, becoming one class instead of two.
 

Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
Or we could simply say that telepaths in B5 were OP, so we should nerf them like in other universes.
Like with existence of something like existence of Nulls or various kind psychic shields and inhibitors.

First thing I would do as a 'mundane' is to find a way to block or limit their powers. There is that inhibitor drug, sure, but some portable device projecting anything disruptive to telepathic brain would come handy too.

Same like Vorlons produced more and more powerful telepaths to wage war, Shadows could create Nulls to counter the threat. They definitely tried to compensate their technological weakness exploited by telepaths and experimented a lot with bio technology. Cybernetically and genetically enhanced killer of telepaths is not something far from what was showed in B5 episodes.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
Or we could simply say that telepaths in B5 were OP, so we should nerf them like in other universes.
Like with existence of something like existence of Nulls or various kind psychic shields and inhibitors.

First thing I would do as a 'mundane' is to find a way to block or limit their powers. There is that inhibitor drug, sure, but some portable device projecting anything disruptive to telepathic brain would come handy too.

Same like Vorlons produced more and more powerful telepaths to wage war, Shadows could create Nulls to counter the threat. They definitely tried to compensate their technological weakness exploited by telepaths and experimented a lot with bio technology. Cybernetically and genetically enhanced killer of telepaths is not something far from what was showed in B5 episodes.

The PsiCorp *Was* the Shadows stepping in to drive a wedge between mundanes and teeps. It was designed to result in conflict, which the inherent contradictions of the EAs commitment to oligarchic rule only magnified.

'Justin': "When you look at a Vorlon," Morden says, "you see what they want you to see. They've manipulated us so we respond favorably to them. They've even at a genetic level, taking humans and adjusting them. Why do you think certifiable telepaths came out of nowhere a hundred years ago?"

"They created telepaths on a hundred worlds to use as cannon fodder for the next war," Justin explains. "But fortunately, our friends got there first and with the help of the Psi Corps, made sure that they came out on our side. John, they think that the human race shows great potential. When all this is over, we can be riding high, the first to rebuild, making things our own way. But the only thing that's standing in our way now is you. So, we can either work together now, or we can remove your support mechanism."
 

Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
There is still giant gaping plothole of mundane population and military being so incredibly stupid they would give children with literal superpowers, including telekinesis or empathy, to independent organisation you can't ever properly control.

There would be, very at least, Psi agents watching Psi agents watching more Psi agents, in multiple organisations, shattered and dispersed all around Earth Alliance, to minimise their influence.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
There is still giant gaping plothole of mundane population and military being so incredibly stupid they would give children with literal superpowers, including telekinesis or empathy, to independent organisation you can't ever properly control.

There would be, very at least, Psi agents watching Psi agents watching more Psi agents, in multiple organisations, shattered and dispersed all around Earth Alliance, to minimise their influence.

It seems like a plot hole, except it was literally designed to fail, just in that way. To the shadows, the inevitable attempted PsiCorp coup and war between Teeps and Norms wasn't a bug, it was a *feature*.

But yeah, if you wanted to head off a violent resolution of the contradictions you would need to make an attempt to 'watch the watchers', but how would the loyalty of your chosen praetorian telepaths be guaranteed? This is why it seems to me that the Medieval answer is the solution; make them family and now your success is their success.
 

Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
It would make sense to me, that Psi Corps would be officially civilian organisation, training P5s. Then there would be military branch of telepaths, officially counter intelligence against alien races with liberal approach towards telepaths, P5s to P11s. Centauri telepaths work as mercenaries for governments and criminals, that much is sure. And Minbari telepaths? Obvious threat.
Above them, there would be ultimate 'watchers', P12s, officially overseeing the two former.

Something like that. Three organisations with three very different kind of people with different agendas and loyalties. Better than single one which could be infiltrated, possibly by some sneaky aliens :p
 
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The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
This conversation is making me want to reboot B5 when I finish with EFC and SG1 but I won't because I'd probably end up making the Centauri the Victors of the shadow war :ROFLMAO:
 
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Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
After almost certain annihilation by the Minbari in the show, Clark's clique used disillusioned citizens suspicious of aliens and pursued isolationism while it tried to purge all resistance within the EA. But that is obviously butterflied away from this timeline.

Is option for military dictatorship pursuing slow but stern subjugation of Galaxy too far fetched?

In Legend of Galactic Heroes, my absolutely favourite anime, Galactic Federation was turned into Empire by war hero the same way Napoleon did. That's why I easily imagined scene of Earth Force dissolving Earth Senate. Wih thunderous applause from majority of citizens. At that time.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
After almost certain annihilation by the Minbari in the show, Clark's clique used disillusioned citizens suspicious of aliens and pursued isolationism while it tried to purge all resistance within the EA. But that is obviously butterflied away from this timeline.

Is option for military dictatorship pursuing slow but stern subjugation of Galaxy too far fetched?

In Legend of Galactic Heroes, my absolutely favourite anime, Galactic Federation was turned into Empire by war hero the same way Napoleon did. That's why I easily imagined scene of Earth Force dissolving Earth Senate. Wih thunderous applause from majority of citizens. At that time.

This would tickle me, but what would be the precipitating crisis? Here the military has won a war, increasing their charisma and credibility, but that victory has also legitimated the current oligarchical-republican system. We'd need to posit something like the conflict between the expansionist and liberal parties that caused the break down of the Terran Alliance in Battletech, whereby the Military has to step in restore domestic order because of civil war.
 

Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
Certainly, even if there was no majority supporting too edgy foreign policy, there would be still great and vocal minority of supporters to pursue further rearmament, more state of the art battlecruisers and more defense rings around Earth and colonies. Some level of conscription and military training for citizens even during peace.

This, in time, would create massive tension between pacifists and militarists, which is gradually worsened with every expensive military research, every cruiser built at the cost of social support or education.
Military-industrial complex will grow, nationalism will be on rise, while social tensions would grow just as well. Terrorist activity on Mars and some strange border incidents with lost ships would push many people past ability to discuss anything anymore.

Earth Senate, in the end, can remain deadlocked beyond any ability to make decisions and EA would be forced to restore order in streets and colonies anyway to prevent absolute anarchy and political groups killing each other, one considering other fascists, while the 'fascists' will accuse them to be traitors or Minbari-lovers :)
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
Certainly, even if there was no majority supporting too edgy foreign policy, there would be still great and vocal minority of supporters to pursue further rearmament, more state of the art battlecruisers and more defense rings around Earth and colonies. Some level of conscription and military training for citizens even during peace.

This, in time, would create massive tension between pacifists and militarists, which is gradually worsened with every expensive military research, every cruiser built at the cost of social support or education.
Military-industrial complex will grow, nationalism will be on rise, while social tensions would grow just as well. Terrorist activity on Mars and some strange border incidents with lost ships would push many people past ability to discuss anything anymore.

Earth Senate, in the end, can remain deadlocked beyond any ability to make decisions and EA would be forced to restore order in streets and colonies anyway to prevent absolute anarchy and political groups killing each other, one considering other fascists, while the 'fascists' will accuse them to be traitors or Minbari-lovers :)

I won't lie, the Image of John Sheridan playing a role analogous to that of James McKenna tickles me a bit. In fact, that's an image I play around with in my own fic.
 

Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
It wouldn't be so easy for Johnny, if he had to choose between principles of democracy, of Earth's Constitution, which is both ignored or crumbling at the moment by it's own citizens - or to help restore order and rule of law in EA, but taking away freedom of same citizens he swore loyalty to as an EA officer.

Very at least, I trust Harlock he won't make him simp for Minbari genetic experiment again :D
 
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DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
It wouldn't be so easy for Johnny, if he had to choose between principles of democracy, of Earth's Constitution, which is both ignored or crumbling at the moment by it's own citizens - or to help restore order and rule of law in EA, but taking away freedom of same citizens he swore loyalty as an EA officer.

That internal conflict just makes things even more delicious. As his duty is ultimately to the people not to any piece of paper, his duty drives him to act as a Caesar, with Jha'dur whispering advice in his ears. Mwahahaha!

All your dreams, torn asunder and trampled underfoot by human nature and the iron law of eternal return.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man—
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began:—
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
I think Sheridan simping for Minbari snatch is inevitable due to Vorlon interference.

But they're at a point now where they can break free of that tampering.

The king Of England’s Daughter romance is hardly an inhuman element of the story. In fact it’s rather more human than the Gnostic reduction of the war in heaven to purely materialistic ‘ancient aliens did it’ terms.
 

Vlad_Dracul89

Well-known member
I think Sheridan simping for Minbari snatch is inevitable due to Vorlon interference.

But they're at a point now where they can break free of that tampering.

Actually I'd expect Sheridan to rather conquer Lyta's red bush. Considering his wife's appearance, he has a thing for redheads and I honestly couldn't comprehend why he was such a dick to her after Shadow War.

Very at least he could do, literally, was free apartment and war pension for her part in the fighting and Vorlon-related stuff. During all the episodes, he did care more in case of so many absolutely random characters.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
Actually I'd expect Sheridan to rather conquer Lyta's red bush. Considering his wife's appearance, he has a thing for redheads and I honestly couldn't comprehend why he was such a dick to her after Shadow War.

Very at least he could do, literally, was free apartment and war pension for her part in the fighting and Vorlon-related stuff. During all the episodes, he did care more in case of so many absolutely random characters.

It was required for the Byron arc to make any sense. But yes, that particular failure of lordship was notable because of it was entirely out of character.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
On the topic of Lyta it amazes me her actress wasn't huge.

She was genuinely gorgeous, physically fit in ways actrsses of the era werent and her somewhat limited acting range had a charm to it that made her more watchable not less.

Plus she was a stunt woman who made the conversion. That's rare.

It was required for the Byron arc to make any sense. But yes, that particular failure of lordship was notable because of it was entirely out of character.

It also made literal psyop Garibaldis paranoia justified
 

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