A Showcase for why modern Feminism is cancerous.

[LifeisTiresome]

That there are lots of people who don’t mind how it looks to others

Is this an issue? SJWs are always going on about "this is not a good look"

Hell, same applies to guys who read Percy Jackson novels and its sequel, which is also “Young Adult” when odds are they’re already supposed to move onto more mature books

And what do we consider mature?

Should we just accept so called experts who would proclaim Disney Star wars mature cause feminism?

Or those hack so called modern artists who put a blank canvas on a wall and call it art.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Is this an issue? SJWs are always going on about "this is not a good look"

And what do we consider mature?

Should we just accept so called experts who would proclaim Disney Star wars mature cause feminism?

Or those hack so called modern artists who put a blank canvas on a wall and call it art.

Eh, I think it’s sort of ammunition used against fanbases, even guys on SB who look to be veteran fans and encyclopedia’s for Marvel/DC agree, last I checked

As for mature, should have added air quotes

“Mature” would be like NOT watching Samurai Jack Season 5 as it was a cartoon and only kids watch cartoons.....my older family members were rather contemptuous of me and keep saying anime and manga are cartoons

“Mature” would also be stuff like abandoning all Shounen for Seinen works, so as such only keep up with Berserk instead of D. Gray-Man

“Mature” would also be stuff like giving up on Young Adult books for stuff like Dresden Files and A Song of Ice and Fire which are definitely for an older age group and actually has adult MCs and doesn’t give a sort of Western chuunibyou syndrome of sorts

Though going by the sort of “mature” you were talking about

I think it’s all about being “socially relevant” and repeatedly going on about Capitalism=Bad, there are White Supremacists and Super Mysogynists hanging around every corner and this work is a FUCK YOU to them and REAL fighting women look average to obese to butch-masculine

Honestly, feels like a sort of intellectual elitism that goes on about how much they are making the world/people aware of a bunch of “social injustices” and what/how the world is supposed to be

 

[Edgeplay_cgo]

I’ll be making popcorn when it does.

I like mine with lots of butter.

 

[The Original Sixth]

"Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

You should not confuse the act of maturing and insecurity of childhood occupations to be one and the same.

It is fine if you tell someone, "Yeah, DBZ Super is sort of a kid's show, but I loved it when I was a kid and I want to see what happens". There's nothing wrong with that. However, your shows should not consist of almost entirely childish things.

Is this an issue? SJWs are always going on about "this is not a good look"

I am not talking about how it looks, although it honestly doesn't look good.

And what do we consider mature?

LotR is mature.
GoT is mature.
Adventure Time is not.
Steven Universe is not.
Superman is not.
Batman is not.

Should we just accept so called experts who would proclaim Disney Star wars mature cause feminism?

Star Wars is anything but mature.

Eh, I think it’s sort of ammunition used against fanbases, even guys on SB who look to be veteran fans and encyclopedia’s for Marvel/DC agree, last I checked

As for mature, should have added air quotes

“Mature” would be like NOT watching Samurai Jack Season 5 as it was a cartoon and only kids watch cartoons.....my older family members were rather contemptuous of me and keep saying anime and manga are cartoons

See, that's not exactly what I'm talking about.

A girlfriend doesn't really care if her boyfriend has some comic books in his drawer or anything like that. To her that's "guy stuff". The problem starts to arise when she walks into your room and sees that every square inch of that wall has been plastered with toys and posters. Remember, she's looking to have a home and a family. She's not going to want to think about having other women walk into her home and see it covered with her husband's toys from when he was 15.

That said, you have the right flow. Cartoons that are obviously for kids, should be left to kids.

“Mature” would also be stuff like abandoning all Shounen for Seinen works, so as such only keep up with Berserk instead of D. Gray-Man

Again, not exactly. It means that the bulk of your consumption should be Seinen, not Shounen. If you started watching an anime when you were 15 and it goes on until you're 25, that's just seeing it through. And you can explain that. People understand that, so long as it isn't to an absurd extreme. You for example, should not watch an anime that has been going on for say, 20 years, so that one you stated when you were 15 goes on until you're 35. Because at that point, you're just watching Pokemon.

Entertainment these days can last a decade. It's not unreasonable for you to tell a woman "Look, I started watching this show when I was 15 and I know I'm 23, but it does have a story and I want to see it through." and as long as that's the reason, you should be fine. You should however, also be able to point to plenty of Seinen works that you enjoy. If not, I'd argue that maybe you need to expand your horizons.

“Mature” would also be stuff like giving up on Young Adult books for stuff like Dresden Files and A Song of Ice and Fire which are definitely for an older age group and actually has adult MCs and doesn’t give a sort of Western chuunibyou syndrome of sorts

Generally, yes.

Do keep in mind though, that doesn't mean you can never absorb any sort of younger audience media. Harry Potter, for example, was widely read by children and adults. Note that the series got darker and more mature as it aged with its readership, but even in the beginning, adults were reading something as simple and relatively innocent as The Sorcerer's Stone.

The problem comes when people walk into your room and see childish things and ONLY childish things. Men and women can understand finishing a story, sentiment for your own childhood, and even the occasional guilty pleasure. What cannot be accepted is someone who clearly refuses to grow up. So you can read the occasional Batman comic storyline and honestly tell a woman or man; "Yeah, it's not my age range, but I've liked Batman since I was a kid."

Honestly, feels like a sort of intellectual elitism that goes on about how much they are making the world/people aware of a bunch of “social injustices” and what/how the world is supposed to be

No, I am not arguing for a rejection of childhood. I am arguing for the evolution into adulthood.

You can still like Lord of the Rings, for example. Enjoyed by children and adults. But there are two ways an adult and a child approach it. A child will go on and on about bits of lore; where troll and orcs originated from, who are the Wizards, how Sauron forged the ring, how the ring can corrupt anyone, and so on. An adult will address the mature themes. And LotR is full of mature themes that adults can and should appreciate.

LotR's theme of corruption, power, greed, and the affect upon that person and those around you is why it is such a powerful piece. You have Gollum; a wretch who could not handle such power and instead hid the precious thing deep within the world. You have Saruman; a wise man who was not half as clever or wise or benevolent as he thought he was. A devious worm adviser who sold out king and country so he could have the woman he desired. A brave and strong hearted man who desired to lead his country to salvation, but fell to the greed in his heart to put his family upon the throne. The wavering strength of both a good and wise men such as Aragorn and Gandalf.

Those are powerful themes that LotR addresses and it does so in a masterful way. That is maturity. It is childish to talk about something as small and petty as what the ring can and can't do, when you are faced with the enormous themes and presentation of the story.

That is not to say you can't enjoy those elements either. You can. You absolutely can, but they should primarily and always take a backseat to the themes and drama in the work in a mature discussion.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

SNIP

Sorry, but I do what I want. If I want to talk about the powers of rings or their designs instead of how deep the themes, then thats what I will do. Women don't like it? They can go and stay away then. No problem for me as I don't try and date anyway. Good riddance to women imo.

Now if companion bots came into existence? For sure, I will buy them. Call me a loser if you will. I know very well that I am one but thats just me. I pay my taxes and all and obey the law and work for a living. Not like those corporate leeches who act woke but are hypocrite sexual predators, tax evaders and polluters.

 

[The Original Sixth]

Sorry, but I do what I want. If I want to talk about the powers of rings or their designs instead of how deep the themes, then thats what I will do. Women don't like it? They can go and stay away then. No problem for me as I don't try and date anyway. Good riddance to women imo.

That's a very insensitive. You should reconsider.

Women don't back away from men who have those things because they're bitches. They do it because they want a man who has the time, resources, and attention to help raise well-adjust children. Why should a woman ever agree to enter a relationship with a man who they fear might ignore her and her children's needs when they aren't shiny and new anymore? Are they going to be shelved with the rest of the toys? I'm not even arguing that all or even a majority of nerds will act that way--but women have no assurances that they won't continue to act that way. Women choose their future in men, they don't want someone stuck in the past.

And it's not just a criticism of the male aspect, it's also a criticism of women. One of my ex's was stuck in the past. She cared more about things that had long ago become irrelevant (if they ever were) and focused on childhood fantasies than she cared about the future. And when she did start to care about any sort of future, it was based in strong (but not radical) feminist ideology. It's not just a guy thing, though I admit it is more prevalent among men.

Nor did I criticize any sort of discussion on lore. Anyone whose seen my work on here or SB knows that I have accumulated a great deal of it across many franchises--and I go in for the occasional guilty pleasure. But one would also notice that I do not engage in it like I did when I was younger. Part of that was going out and getting a life. The other part of it was simply realizing that the discussion itself was not the most important aspect of the discussion. Indeed, it was the least mature and least important aspect. The important aspects were the themes and drama.

Now if companion bots came into existence? For sure, I will buy them.

I don't think you really mean that.

Call me a loser if you will. I know very well that I am one but thats just me.

I did not call you a loser. And a loser only exists so long as he maintains that mindset. You think every 'good catch' guy out there started off with a large bank account and women hanging on his arms? Bullshit. Some of them worked hard to obtain what they had. And they're not all millionaires. In fact, the vast majority of them aren't. They aren't even rich. Hell, sometimes they're not even well-off. But what they offer other people is what makes them valuable. Security. Growth. Wealth. Companionship.

And they don't even have to be leaders of men. A solid guy who works at a steel welding company can offer a woman security both in body and wealth. Can raise his kids to be productive to himself, his wife, and his community. He can provide wealth even to other men by being a good team player. And he can talk with them and offer them useful insight or even just an ear.

You don't need to be Superman to do that. That is a childhood fantasy. You need to look in a mirror and say "I can do better" and work from there. As long as women see that you are on a path to somewhere, they will give you a chance. They won't give you a chance if you are sitting in the street playing X-Box with no intent to move.

I pay my taxes and all and obey the law and work for a living. Not like those corporate leeches who act woke but are hypocrite sexual predators, tax evaders and polluters.

Not all of them are leeches. Not all of them are sexual predators. Not all of them are shameless tax evaders. Not all of them are polluters without conscious. Many of them are hard working men and women who simply want to make their lives better and therefore provide a service to others and in doing so, have enriched themselves.

And having the deck stacked against you is no excuse for not trying. You can fail. You can try and fail most of your life--and you probably will in some capacity or another, but the idea that you can never succeed is absurd. It sounds like you're more afraid of competing and being revealed to be lacking. And that is terrifying. No doubt about that.

I sure as hell don't want to go out there and be seen as anything less than perfect. But the more I pretended I was, the more obvious it was that I wasn't.

 

[Captain X]

Consider the fact that not everyone wants children to begin with. And then there's the fact that you both have just been talking down to others about what you consider to be "mature."

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Consider the fact that not everyone wants children to begin with. And then there's the fact that you both have just been talking down to others about what you consider to be "mature."

I do fantasize about having kids and would love it but I recognize my own flaws like being poor and know that no women would want me + modern women from what I see are shit. Not all of them of course but even 1 is too much cause divorce and being poor + I love my hobbies which I don't see affecting families in a bad way but if a requirement is for me to loose my hobbies for the women to feel comfortable? They can go away. Good riddance.

 

[The Original Sixth]

Consider the fact that not everyone wants children to begin with.

I grant you that there are those who may not care as much about having children as other things in their lives. I do not believe that there is no desire, not unless they've had their minds polluted about children in general.

And then there's the fact that you both have just been talking down to others about what you consider to be "mature."

My position is an aim at the community, not one person.

Nor am I insisting that people cannot indulge or enjoy things that are deemed to be childish. Rather, I am taking the position that we all need to raise our standards of ourselves and others. That involves maybe throwing out some old action figures, expanding our horizons to other interests, and maybe addressing a piece of work beyond there mere shallow shiny wrapper it came in. Much of which we already do anyway--and much that I think we want to do anyway.

 

[The Original Sixth]

I do fantasize about having kids and would love it but I recognize my own flaws like being poor and no that no women would want me

Then have kids!

Plenty of women will date poor men. Poor men didn't simply start to exist in the past decade. Or the past century. They have existed ever since the concept first evolved.

+ modern women from what I see are shit.

That's not true. There are plenty good women. Even the more liberal women aren't bad people. They aren't fanatics. But if you need a conservative woman, then stick to your beliefs and go for conservative women. There are PLENTY of Hispanic women in the country who will not snub you because you're poor.

Not all of them of course but even 1 is too much + I love my hobbies which I don't see affecting families in a bad way but if a requirement is for me to loose my hobbies for the women to feel comfortable? They can go away. Good riddance.

That's not what I was trying to say.

What I am saying is that you cannot present yourself as someone who will ignore her for your hobbies. I am not saying you need to dump all your stuff because a woman feels insecure if you don't give her attention 100% of the time. You need to have your boundaries. What I am saying though, is if a woman gets the impression that Naruto is more important to you than her, she will leave.

Having kids is the very process of merging who you are with someone else to produce something new. You will get a fucked up child if that child is raised to believe that half of himself does not care for the other half. No one is asking that you get involved with a woman who can't appreciate your hobbies or interests. That would be unreasonable. What is however, just as unreasonable, is to ask that a woman put her entire future on the line for someone who may not give two shits about her or her children.

So many women out there are happy to date a guy who likes Star Trek or Star Wars. Especially if she shares that interest. But she also needs to know that you will care more about her than those things when she's got wrinkles and grey hair. Or when there are four screaming kids that want you to play with them, not the X-Box.

You will have kids. You can share the things you love with them. And that will mean far more to you as a father than having whatever material thing you could have bought.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

That's not true. There are plenty good women. Even the more liberal women aren't bad people. They aren't fanatics. But if you need a conservative woman, then stick to your beliefs and go for conservative women. There are PLENTY of Hispanic women in the country who will not snub you because you're poor.

I fear this is an excessively optimistic take on the state of the modern western female.

Additionally, it misses a nuance of the situation - that what a female brings to the table, what she can offer a male today, is far less than it was in the past. She cannot offer him children, they are property of the state and assigned as the state sees fit, under threat of violence. She cannot make a credible promise of marriage, "til death do us part", because so many females have broken their vows. She does not offer the great worth that western women used to bring to the household a couple centuries ago, when having a woman was synonymous with things like 'having clothes' and 'having well-preserved stores of food'. And these things are merely the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the modern western thot.

That "no women would want me" line is some lame ass incel bullshit, a lie males tell themselves to avoid a more honest statement such as "making myself worthy of their interest would be more work than I am willing to do". But, we should also be honest that the modern western female has a piss-poor bargaining position and offers little in return for the effort it takes for a male to improve himself. If a male is going to do that work, make a man of himself, he should damned well be doing it for himself and not for pussy, because the pussy is a devalued commodity.

 

[The Original Sixth]

I fear this is an excessively optimistic take on the state of the modern western female.

Additionally, it misses a nuance of the situation - that what a female brings to the table, what she can offer a male today, is far less than it was in the past. She cannot offer him children, they are property of the state and assigned as the state sees fit, under threat of violence.

They are not property of the state. Now, the state has a nasty habit of always granting the mother rights over the father, but that is something that needs to be addressed on its own merits. It's unfair to blame women without kids for something women with kids sometimes do.

She cannot make a credible promise of marriage, "til death do us part", because so many females have broken their vows.

Many women have broken their vows.

And so have many men.

So the risk goes both ways. How does she know you'll keep her vows? I think that's the part where trust comes in.

She does not offer the great worth that western women used to bring to the household a couple centuries ago, when having a woman was synonymous with things like 'having clothes' and 'having well-preserved stores of food'. And these things are merely the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the modern western thot.

It sounds like you're angry at having men called out for their lack of value, as it were and wish to retaliate in kind. I very much like that you want to get into the nuances of the situation and women who fall below the bar should be called out just as much as men who fall below the bar. However, I think demeaning terms like "female" and "western thot" are a bit too harsh.

There are plenty of good women out there--yes, even in the hive of scum and villainy that is the West. There are plenty of women who are out there looking for a good guy. And just because a woman isn't attracted to a specific sort, does not mean she discounts his value to her or society. It may simply mean that what you have to offer is not her cup of tea. And hey, that goes for men too. Plenty of women get rejected by men because they're looking for something else. Don't settle for vanilla if you want chocolate and all.

And yeah, there are plenty of women who do fall below the bar. Women who don't regularly shower, who don't work their hair, who are offended by the very concept of make-up, and who want to go around insisting they don't ever want to have children. And sure, they probably exist in far higher numbers in the West than before.

That "no women would want me" line is some lame ass incel bullshit, a lie males tell themselves to avoid a more honest statement such as "making myself worthy of their interest would be more work than I am willing to do".

And would the line "No woman is good enough to make me try" a counterpart to that lie? I agree with the sentiment of not tossing pearls to swine, but I think you are unintentionally painting with a wide brush.

But, we should also be honest that the modern western female has a piss-poor bargaining position and offers little in return for the effort it takes for a male to improve himself.

I would rather argue that those women generally have a lot to offer. Certainly some of them have ruined their value, to where it must be repaired or is otherwise forever tarnished, but generally I find that it's women who are bargaining with too many people; themselves, their parents, feminists, minorities, greens, and any man they're interested in. And that is on them, but I think the issue is who they're bargaining against more often and less about themselves. Because in objective terms, the value of women has drastically increased in the West.

So much so that most men can't afford it. Which is a danger to those women, be sure of that. But that is a matter of bargaining, not the value they themselves offer.

If a male is going to do that work, make a man of himself, he should damned well be doing it for himself and not for pussy, because the pussy is a devalued commodity.

You are partially correct. A man should improve himself for the sake of improving his value to himself and others. However, women are part of that group and shouldn't be discounted because they don't appreciate something of low value. Just like men shouldn't be treated poorly for not putting high value on a woman who has obviously destroyed her value to them.

 

[S'task]

GoT is mature.

No, it's really not.

Oh sure, it's mature in the sense that it has things we as society deems should be reserved for adults, but GoT's themes and the way it paints the world as being is nothing more than edgy adolescence. That said, considering that we appear to have now extended adolescence in society well into folk's 20s...

A girlfriend doesn't really care if her boyfriend has some comic books in his drawer or anything like that. To her that's "guy stuff". The problem starts to arise when she walks into your room and sees that every square inch of that wall has been plastered with toys and posters. Remember, she's looking to have a home and a family. She's not going to want to think about having other women walk into her home and see it covered with her husband's toys from when he was 15.

Yeah... if that's how you think women think I have news for you: that's really not how it works. Yes, SOME women will judge you for that, and will be concerned with what others will think if they see your stuff, but that's hardly all women. Now, maybe that's been your experience, but speaking as a married individual... yeah, that's much lower on the list for what most women consider important than you think.

Even speaking historically. There's a reason that in most middle class and upper class houses there's traditionally been part of the home that is the husband's domain. Maybe it's his study, filled with his books and photos and other things he collects. Maybe it's a spare room with a model train set. Maybe it's the workshop full of tools and various woodworking projects in various state of finish. Or perhaps it's the garage where they work on a motorcycle or car. In a functioning household, the husband will have a dedicated space set aside for their hobbies that the wife will not object to aside from perhaps that if it's messy to keep the door closed. Any woman worth staying with will see the bedroom of a single man (who's likely in a one bedroom apartment and therefor all the space is multiuse) filled with posters and toys and see it as a preview of their future hobby room, and won't really care, after all, they have hobbies too and objects associated with them that they keep around.

Again, not exactly. It means that the bulk of your consumption should be Seinen, not Shounen. If you started watching an anime when you were 15 and it goes on until you're 25, that's just seeing it through. And you can explain that. People understand that, so long as it isn't to an absurd extreme. You for example, should not watch an anime that has been going on for say, 20 years, so that one you stated when you were 15 goes on until you're 35. Because at that point, you're just watching Pokemon.

The bulk of what media one consumes should never be determined by one's age. That's quite literally what the aforementioned CS Lewis quote is about. There is very little media for children that can be said to be mentally only for children, and that's mostly things for the sub-7 age group meant to help learn basic language and educational skills. Once you get into stories meant to teach morals or just entertain, there's zero reason why an adult cannot be engaged by those stories. Further most stories for "adults" are not thematically different than shows for kids, save perhaps the darkly cynical ones, but there is nothing inherently more mature about cynicism and I'd argue fairly strongly that cynicism itself is actually a form of immaturity, not maturity (see my prior comment concerning "A Song of Ice and Fire").

Oh, certainly some of the STORIES will be different and some ideas that media for children and teenagers tend to not address (for instance the "what comes after 'I do'" in romances or the adventures of being a parent), but at the same time, just because an adult has moved onto those phases of their lives doesn't meant they should not be consuming media about those phases.

You can still like Lord of the Rings, for example. Enjoyed by children and adults. But there are two ways an adult and a child approach it. A child will go on and on about bits of lore; where troll and orcs originated from, who are the Wizards, how Sauron forged the ring, how the ring can corrupt anyone, and so on. An adult will address the mature themes. And LotR is full of mature themes that adults can and should appreciate.

No. Just, no.

Children can, and do, and SHOULD be discussing both, there's no reasons children cannot grasp many of them. As should adults. Tolkien's themes are part and parcel to his worldbuilding. One cannot discuss and parse the themes around Tolkien's ideals about love without also discussing the lore surrounding Beren and Lúthien. Claim that ignoring the lore of Lord of the Rings in favor of only discussing the themes is to make the work lesser and inhibits understanding.

But what do I know... I'm only an actual English degree holding married man who's wife has a tattoo of "Lúthien Tinúviel" in Sindarin on her back and who's reading the Hobbit to his five year old daughter just as his father read it to him at the same age...

 

[GoldRanger]

An interesting listen as to why modern feminism is a sham. Daisey Cousens goes into her experience with feminism, why she left and why she thinks modern feminism isn't about women, that it's about money and social/political clout. Anyone else like to provide cases for or against?

It's a 40 minute video. Can you please edit a tldr into the OP?

 

[LifeisTiresome]

That "no women would want me" line is some lame ass incel bullshit, a lie males tell themselves to avoid a more honest statement such as "making myself worthy of their interest would be more work than I am willing to do".

Well, I consider myself more volcel as I have never approached women to try and get a girl. Too lazy. A girl did approach me once but she had a boyfriend and admitted when I told her no that she likes to be with a guy for a while then she got bored and then while with him found someone else.

I admit. I am a loser kissless virgin who may have screwed up his bodies growth when young hence I have nothing to offer women hence why I said that they wouldn't want me.

Aside from this, I agree with everything else in your post.

I personally think, men who are not chads should be able to have access to companion bots and women can finally be free of the so called creeps and thus be able to be with the chads and be part of his harem as they have always wanted. Everybody wins.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

They are not property of the state. Now, the state has a nasty habit of always granting the mother rights over the father, but that is something that needs to be addressed on its own merits. It's unfair to blame women without kids for something women with kids sometimes do.

The state has the authority and uses it. Don't like it? Too fucking bad, they will enforce it. Until this authority is removed from the state, they are the de facto owners of children. Doesn't matter whether you think it's fair or not, this is the state of the playing field, and an honest man must acknowledge it.

And so have many men.

So the risk goes both ways. How does she know you'll keep her vows?

>But what about the wamen?

@LifeisTiresome is not a woman, and is not in the market for a husband. As far as I know.

It sounds like you're angry at having men called out for their lack of value, as it were and wish to retaliate in kind.

Uh oh, it's a code red! Man being angry!

It is natural and healthy to be angry at injustice. Anger provides motivation to endure and overcome hardship.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

Well, I consider myself more volcel as I have never approached women to try and get a girl. Too lazy. A girl did approach me once but she had a boyfriend and admitted when I told her no that she likes to be with a guy for a while then she got bored and then while with him found someone else.

I admit. I am a loser kissless virgin who may have screwed up his bodies growth when young hence I have nothing to offer women hence why I said that they wouldn't want me.

Aside from this, I agree with everything else in your post.

I personally think, men who are not chads should be able to have access to companion bots and women can finally be free of the so called creeps and thus be able to be with the chads and be part of his harem as they have always wanted. Everybody wins.

It's one thing to buy a robot to suck your cock, that is little more than an expensive fleshlight. A man should not aspire to buy a robot to provide companionship. If the robot has this capacity -- if they are upgraded to the point where they are sapient, and then used that way, it would be the vilest form of slavery practiced by humanity in all of our history. To create a species and use it like that? That's some Saturn's Children shit right there.

As for the rest, I'm not going to dispute where you stand today. I suspect you may be a little hard on yourself, but I can't know that across the internet. What I will heartily dispute is your fatalism. One of the great things about being male is that almost all of our value is derived from the fruits of our labors. You quite literally have more than a decade to fashion yourself into a man capable of getting the things you want. You dream of a family and children? This goal is surely within your reach... as long as you are honest about what is required.

 

[Arlos]

Well, I consider myself more volcel as I have never approached women to try and get a girl. Too lazy. A girl did approach me once but she had a boyfriend and admitted when I told her no that she likes to be with a guy for a while then she got bored and then while with him found someone else.

I admit. I am a loser kissless virgin who may have screwed up his bodies growth when young hence I have nothing to offer women hence why I said that they wouldn't want me.

Aside from this, I agree with everything else in your post.

I think, men who are not chads should be able to have access to companion bots and women can finally be free of the so called creeps and thus be able to be with the chads and be part of his harem as they have always wanted. Everybody wins.

I admit to being in a somewhat similar situation, I want a family and children, but I find myself growing more apathetic toward modern women as time goes by. It’s gotten significantly worse since #MeToo, or #BalanceTonPorc as it was called here.
When things are stacked so much in one side favor, and the others side could destroy you with the applaud of the crowd because you didn’t want to raise the kid she had with another guy while married to you, it’s just depressing.
And Honestly, I have enough depression in my life without adding that on top.
I know myself anyways, I have no doubt I would do something that would land me in a morgue if something like that happened to me. Mostly because I wouldn’t surrender.

 

[The Original Sixth]

No, it's really not.

Oh sure, it's mature in the sense that it has things we as society deems should be reserved for adults, but GoT's themes and the way it paints the world as being is nothing more than edgy adolescence. That said, considering that we appear to have now extended adolescence in society well into folk's 20s...

I haven't read it or seen the show, so I can't judge to its quality. Needless to say, plenty of things attempt to be mature without ever achieving it. That said, from what I hear, he asserts that his fantasy setting is more realistic than LotR on the basis of politics or some nonsense, so I can't say I have much confidence in his abilities.

Or taste.

Yeah... if that's how you think women think I have news for you: that's really not how it works. Yes, SOME women will judge you for that, and will be concerned with what others will think if they see your stuff, but that's hardly all women. Now, maybe that's been your experience, but speaking as a married individual... yeah, that's much lower on the list for what most women consider important than you think.

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

Not all women will count it against you. Probably not even most if you come down to what is a harmless hobby. But if that is all you make apparent you have to offer, she will give you a hard pass. And let me be pointed on that; women will judge you for it. It may simply not count against you or very high on her chart.

Even speaking historically. There's a reason that in most middle class and upper class houses there's traditionally been part of the home that is the husband's domain. Maybe it's his study, filled with his books and photos and other things he collects. Maybe it's a spare room with a model train set. Maybe it's the workshop full of tools and various woodworking projects in various state of finish. Or perhaps it's the garage where they work on a motorcycle or car. In a functioning household, the husband will have a dedicated space set aside for their hobbies that the wife will not object to aside from perhaps that if it's messy to keep the door closed. Any woman worth staying with will see the bedroom of a single man (who's likely in a one bedroom apartment and therefor all the space is multiuse) filled with posters and toys and see it as a preview of their future hobby room, and won't really care, after all, they have hobbies too and objects associated with them that they keep around.

I never argued against hobbies. Building trains, working with wood, a manga collection, a comic collection, or even having a D&D hobby is NOT going to immediately count against you. What I am referring to is not that a man shows a childish aspect, but rather a man who shows most/all childish aspect and no real sense of mature tastes.

As for the room, I am not suggesting that a man who has any posters, any figures, any models, or such things will be poorly judged. Just as a man who is a bit messy or decorates plainly will not be poorly judged. However--if that house is a complete dump or the man decorates his house with a single mattress, desk, and chair for no apparent reason...she will have second thoughts. I'm not saying she'll leave, but she is directly at that point confronting a less than pleasant future.

The bulk of what media one consumes should never be determined by one's age.

Oh, come off it.

That's quite literally what the aforementioned CS Lewis quote is about.

If that's what he meant, then he was being foolish.

There is very little media for children that can be said to be mentally only for children, and that's mostly things for the sub-7 age group meant to help learn basic language and educational skills. Once you get into stories meant to teach morals or just entertain, there's zero reason why an adult cannot be engaged by those stories. Further most stories for "adults" are not thematically different than shows for kids, save perhaps the darkly cynical ones, but there is nothing inherently more mature about cynicism and I'd argue fairly strongly that cynicism itself is actually a form of immaturity, not maturity (see my prior comment concerning "A Song of Ice and Fire").

I absolutely disagree. A child's entertainment is geared to do different things in my mind, compared to that of an adult story. A child's story is generally to give the child encouragement and the basis for morality. An adult story--and that evolution into adulthood begins at a young age, I grant you--is designed to address the world and morality in its complexity, such as contradictions to the morality installed in childhood. And it is not wrong to have family entertainment, which attempts to address both.

Again, my position is not that you should abandon the child for maturity--because maturity requires childhood as its basis. You cannot address the complexity of morality, if you do not have a base that you were taught as a child. I'm not saying that you need to throw away your comics or action figures, though perhaps for some that may be required.

Oh, certainly some of the STORIES will be different and some ideas that media for children and teenagers tend to not address (for instance the "what comes after 'I do'" in romances or the adventures of being a parent), but at the same time, just because an adult has moved onto those phases of their lives doesn't meant they should not be consuming media about those phases.

Again, I am not saying they should. I am focusing on the aspect of the community that is obsessed with those phases and who will not move on, then complain that they are still being treated like children.

No. Just, no.

Children can, and do, and SHOULD be discussing both, there's no reasons children cannot grasp many of them. As should adults. Tolkien's themes are part and parcel to his worldbuilding. One cannot discuss and parse the themes around Tolkien's ideals about love without also discussing the lore surrounding Beren and Lúthien. Claim that ignoring the lore of Lord of the Rings in favor of only discussing the themes is to make the work lesser and inhibits understanding.

Again, I am not disregarding discussing the lore. Obviously the lore should be discussed. My position, of which I consistently hold, is that the intense focus on merely lore alone is what sinks most LotR fans in mature conversations. I am not suggesting we ignore all lore--I have in fact repeatedly expressed how I engage in that myself.

But what do I know... I'm only an actual English degree holding married man who's wife has a tattoo of "Lúthien Tinúviel" in Sindarin on her back and who's reading the Hobbit to his five year old daughter just as his father read it to him at the same age...

Please feel free to share your experience, because a lot of people here would really find that invaluable to have, but please don't presume to use it as some sort of appeal to authority. Because we both know that I have zero compunctions about tearing apart that argument to shreds.

I will restate my position. A woman will not be attracted to a man who has no maturity or promise of maturity. I am not saying you cannot have a childish side. Or that you can't engage in any sort of childish activity. I don't know if I remind you of people who do or if my words appear similar to theirs, but it's plainly obvious that you have a wonderful wife and therefore, she must have found something promising about you. So either my position isn't clear or you've overlooked something. I suspect it's the former, but there you have it.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

I admit to being in a somewhat similar situation, I want a family and children, but I find myself growing more apathetic toward modern women as time goes by. It’s gotten significantly worse since #MeToo, or #BalanceTonPorc as it was called here.
When things are stacked so much in one side favor, and the others side could destroy you with the applaud of the crowd because you didn’t want to raise the kid she had with another guy while married to you, it’s just depressing.
And Honestly, I have enough depression in my life without adding that on top.
I know myself anyways, I have no doubt I would do something that would land me in a morgue if something like that happened to me. Mostly because I wouldn’t surrender.

As our countries de-civilize in this inter-Patriarchy era, male options for mitigating the threat of divorce rape will expand. Islam, for example, will provide males with allies who will ensure that adulterous females are culled. I do hope that we do better than that, such as through a revival of Christianity and enforcement of Christian social norms, but we can at least be certain that change is on the horizon.