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A Theory on the Deterioration of Hollywood

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I think there's little doubt Hollywood is currently on the decline. Subscription-based services are on the decline, with Netflix having to make unpopular "antisharing" moves along with removing their lowest tiers and adding advertising. But this is only a band-aid as advertising is also on the decline as a successful model. The current crop of movies are uninspiring, bland, often go counter to their roots, and we've had a bewildering period of sequels, prequels, remakes, retoolings, reboots, and generally little to no originality. Writers are on strike, actors are on strike, and the general attitude of the public seems to be "meh."

I intend to produce a theory on why. In contrast to my usual research, I'm heavily theorizing about the mind-states of Hollywood, thus this is not anything provable but rather speculation.

I feel that three forces have come together to produce the current situation:

1. Rise of Nerd Culture
2. Nepotism
3. Risk aversion

Taking them in reverse order, Hollywood has become deeply risk-averse. Movies based on a reliable franchise are "in" while high-risk high-reward original works are "out." Movie executives avoid risk, by going for franchises, but this has its own opportunity cost. Rights for franchises are largely already sewn up into existing corporate giants. Rare purchases like Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilms changing positions, but the board is largely already set in stone. This means the opportunity to work with a given genre may be highly dependent on which company you're working for. Further, because an established franchise requires payments such as residuals to the original author ('s estate), residuals use of likeness of actors who are now established and wealthy, and payments to the artists who created the original look, these movies have to have either higher budgets than new works, or cut corners.

In practice, executives are doing both. Movie budgets for franchise films have skyrocketed. The Sound of Freedom was made on a budget of only fourteen million dollars, less than a tenth of what Barbie spent on advertising alone, a twentieth of Barbie's entire budget. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny had a budget of $295 million. The costs of franchise films have become outrageous compared with indie non-franchise films. At the same time, executives wanting to avoid risk take actions like catering to the Chinese market in often strange ways, but this "sure-fire" strategy is beginning to backfire as well.

At the same time, corner-cutting is getting ridiculous. CGI often looks worse than it did in the 90s. Jurassic Park is often regarded as the Zenith for dinosaurs, with Jurassic World being a significant downgrade. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantamania has been widely panned for it's awful CGI, and Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny looks cheap and creepy. Why has it gotten significantly worse even as technology has advanced? Well, a major reason is Executives cutting corners. Cheaping out on CGI, and also using it to avoid having to shoot on-scene or take the movie to film on-scene instead of in a green room leads to too much CGI for too little spent on it.


They also skimp on writers. Rings of Power is pretty notorious, but did you know the two lead writers have zero other writing credits to their name? Nothing, nada, this was their first rodeo. This is... really common these days in Hollywood. Established and known writers cost money so Executives skimp on them and hire newbs who are cheap and easy to use. This has its own quality control issues though.

I theorize that this is the "Game Graphics" effect. For years, games have sold themselves primarily on how good the graphics are. Not how fun it is, not great gameplay, but graphics. Why? Because you can show a picture of the graphics in an ad and it will look great, while you can't easily show how your innovative dysentery mechanic makes playing a survivor in a zombie apocalypse more fun until they're already playing. Similarly, Star Power belongs to lead actors and producers, the writer's credits are going to be well below and rarely draw much attention so skimping on them doesn't affect what the Executives see as the "main draw."

This ties nicely into the second issue, Nepotism. Since the writers don't matter in the first place, it's easier to hire "word of mouth" connected people, the children of elites, rather than put in the work to find actual skilled, veteran writers who have the chops to build a proper story and work with the CGI team, with the actor's strong points, and cover weaknesses. It also means they're working with people who haven't had their ego stomped into the dirt by real life yet. It also means fewer rewrites, fewer corrections, and less work on making the film well-paced and tight, both because there's no money for it and because the egos involved don't allow for their vision to be corrupted by things like "pacing," "story arc," and "logical sequence of events."

This ties into the third point, the rise of Nerd Culture. The current hot things in Hollywood are sci-fi epics, superheroes, fantasy worlds, pulp adventures. Stuff for nerds. The current crop of writers are the children of elites, the jocks and privileged class of the world. They are being forced to write films aimed at the kids they gave swirlies and wedgies to in high school. They, the elite, the artistes, are being forced to now service those same nerds. I perceive in a lot of Hollywood films, they actually hate what they're making. Rian Johnson is on record as saying how much he hated having to make a "franchise film" before starting The Last Jedi, and his despise for the movie he was both writing and producing showed. Across the board, we see remakes that clearly despise the original work and seek to stomp on it's legacy, spit on what it stood for, and burn it to the ground.

This combined yields, I think, the current issues. The makers of films feel compelled to take the easy route and go for more expensive franchise films. However, they have to cut too many corners to do it. They rely on expensive franchises, expensive actors, and expensive producers but that means a huge budget so they cheap out on everything that doesn't have Star Power, specifically special effects and especially writers. In turn the writers despise the films they're forced to remake, so they rebel by going against the film's original message, and inserting their own spin because they are the artistes, not mere imitators and they deserve better than having to just redo some older work and produce some lowbrow sci-fi garbage for nerds. They have vision, they are the important people here. So they race-bend the main character, change the entire theme to be Girl Power instead of Romance, remove things they regard as "problematic" to insert "The Message" instead, and because they are too self-entitled and inexperienced, they aren't able to make the story work anymore. They've cut out the foundation without having any way to build a foundation of their own.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
This ties into the third point, the rise of Nerd Culture. The current hot things in Hollywood are sci-fi epics, superheroes, fantasy worlds, pulp adventures. Stuff for nerds. The current crop of writers are the children of elites, the jocks and privileged class of the world. They are being forced to write films aimed at the kids they gave swirlies and wedgies to in high school.

I feel petty for bringing this up since it's barely an important point but may I remind you how far down in your post this quoted bit is. That means I did read, closely, your treatise.... so that's something!

I get the point about elitists haughtily looking down upon peasants, but I'm not sure about the "the jocks" thing and aiming media at kids they gave swirlies and wedgies to in High School.

In fact I could see it going both ways. There were always undertones of division based on perceived privilege and wealth in many schools after all and a lot of Hollywood writing could be coming from people who came from privileged backgrounds but also felt marginalized in school, perhaps being felt left out not only by the popular kids, but nerdy subcultures as well which could lead to the narcissism, elitism and resentfulness the Hollywood creators just as well.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I feel petty for bringing this up since it's barely an important point but may I remind you how far down in your post this quoted bit is. That means I did read, closely, your treatise.... so that's something!

I get the point about elitists haughtily looking down upon peasants, but I'm not sure about the "the jocks" thing and aiming media at kids they gave swirlies and wedgies to in High School.

In fact I could see it going both ways. There were always undertones of division based on perceived privilege and wealth in many schools after all and a lot of Hollywood writing could be coming from people who came from privileged backgrounds but also felt marginalized in school, perhaps being felt left out not only by the popular kids, but nerdy subcultures as well which could lead to the narcissism, elitism and resentfulness the Hollywood creators just as well.
Fairly plausible. As I prefaced my essay with, I'm essentially trying to read people's minds which is an iffy business where one inevitably inserts much of their own bias. It's not something that can be rooted in fact and logic but only opinion and judgment calls. This is very much my opinion gathered mostly from guesswork.

My opinion was informed somewhat by scenes like this one from Night Court. I actually had several other similar ones in mind but this popped up easily in YouTube and gets the message across. Tabletop gamers, anime fans, and the like were treated much the same back then though it's harder for me to find the actual clips.


Trekkies and other nerds historically were treated as freaks, idiots, and weirdos by Big Media. Now the children of the people who wrote that scene (and a thousand similar ones across media) are being forced to treat these people, these Trekkies, as important customers and cater to their whims. One could draw parallels to a racist (a genuine one, not the modern version) forced now to provide a service to those "beneath" him or a conquered people having to pay taxes to their new overlords.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
I'll note, in support of @Bear Ribs's thesis regarding that particular element, that we only have to look at the showrunners of Game of Thrones, who explicitly said that they wanted to make it "for jocks" (using that exact term), and "less nerdy". They clearly despised all things nerdy, and they basically wanted to push those icky nerds right out of the fandom. Fucking little geeks, with their books. You only read books for school, man! Which is also the only time you think about stupid nerd things like themes!

That attitude is pervasive. It adds an additional dimension to the wider analysis: that of... dare I say it... colonialism, as it were.

No, not in the shit-for-brains "woke" sense, where these sanctimonious whiners try to drag supposed "white guilt" into everything. I mean in the sense that those same sanctimonious whiners are actually guilty of it. They are, for lack of a better term, colonising and exploiting nerd culture. It went "mainstream", yes, but only in a very curated -- indeed, shackled -- fashion. When those GoT guys try to push the nerds out of the fandom, they're actually stealing the fandom. They try to throw out the people who built the fandom -- who, by and large, were the fandom -- and they use the stolen structure of it to serve their own needs, while they warp it, and populate it with their own cohort of "jocks".

Kathleen Kennedy and her stooges tried everything in their power to do the same with Star Wars. Basically: "fuck the original fans, we'll shit all over them until they get lost, and we'll replace them with our legions of much-less-nerdy, much-less-critical NPC-type consumers."

The studios don't want fans. Fans get invested. Fans care. The studios want unthinking zombies who consume product, and then forget and are immediately ready to consume next product.
 
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gral

Well-known member
No, not in the shit-for-brains "woke" sense, where these sanctimonious whiners try to drag supposed "white guilt" into everything. I mean in the sense that those same sanctimonious whiners are actually guilty of it. They are, for lack of a better term, colonising and exploiting nerd culture. It went "mainstream", yes, but only in a very curated -- indeed, shackled -- fashion.
Big Bang Theory was a disaster for nerddom.
 
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TheRomanSlayer

Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
I wonder how would a complete collapse of Hollywood would look like, as in the main hub of the film industry there. It's not like there's other places that were nicknamed Hollywood as well. Hollywood North, which is Vancouver, BC, churns out halfway or partially decent films and shows. I remember from when I was in high school that Smallville was a bit popular, but only because it was filmed in Vancouver. Heck, even Man in the High Castle has certain scenes that were filmed in Vancouver.

Does anyone think that the rise and growth of independent filmmakers unattached to any thing connected with Hollywood is also a factor as well?
 
Big Bang Project was a disaster for nerddom.


big bang was a disaster and the MCU was a monkey's paw for all of us Marvel fans, but then again Marvel was already starting to fall apart at Marvel before then as you had things like The Civil War, Sin's past and of course the infamous One More Day.
 
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Simonbob

Well-known member

Clips like that, I don't think prove much, if anything.

In a comedy, everybody's a joke.


I'll note, in support of @Bear Ribs's thesis regarding that particular element, that we only have to look at the showrunners of Game of Thrones, who explicitly said that they wanted to make it "for jocks" (using that exact term), and "less nerdy". They clearly despised all things nerdy, and they basically wanted to push those icky nerds right out of the fandom. Fucking little geeks, with their books. You only read books for school, man! Which is also the only time you think about stupid nerd things like themes!

That, however? That's a much bigger thing. And it's happened, again and again.

Why is Ariel black, again? Because the story is just a tool for those who are creating this "version", not a remake of something loved.


There's another factor to why Hollywood is sinking, I'd say. Specificly that the setup they have built over the decades, the contracts, buildings and organisation is, like all larger, older companies, literaly unable to change fast enough to keep up with the times.

The tech is different, the culture is different, the political forces they rely on are changing as well. The very ground they built their empire on is moving, and they can't move with it.
 

stephen the barbarian

Well-known member
i'm going to say that while these are all symptoms of the problem, the cause is far simpler;

Hollywood isn't necessary anymore.

they used to be the only place where you had the talent, money, infrastructure, and distribution networks needed to get a film out into the public sphere. now peasants are putting out competitive works in their spare time using off the shelf gear and posting it to the internet.
 

AnimalNoodles

Well-known member
Big Bang Project was a disaster for nerddom.

The death of nerddom began long before that, in the 90's even

"nerds" used to be people who were good at tech and their obsessive interest in tech, machines and science made them socially awkward. They were into things like HAM radio, phone phreaking and computer programming. The fandom stuff was a sideline. In fact, many nerds back in the day held things like star wars and comic books with vague disdain, seeing them as kiddy stuff.

At some point, "nerd" was transformed into a consumer identity. It was less about tech obsessed hackers and more about consuming the products that were linked to this subculture.

Some guy who collected funkopops and obssessively watched anime (which we called Japanimation back in the day) but had no interest or skill at all in tech would be seen as a wierdo, not a 'nerd'.
 

TheRomanSlayer

Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Still doesn't really explain much as to why we sometimes see a video of a grown guy crying over the trailer of the new Star Wars movie and view it like it's horrific.
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
Death of hollywood basically condenses down to "People in charge no longer like what they are creating, and their hatred shows very easily"

That and spicier conspiracy theories.

Who builds a better house? Someone who loves houses, or someone who despises them as a concept?
 
The death of nerddom began long before that, in the 90's even

"nerds" used to be people who were good at tech and their obsessive interest in tech, machines and science made them socially awkward. They were into things like HAM radio, phone phreaking and computer programming. The fandom stuff was a sideline. In fact, many nerds back in the day held things like star wars and comic books with vague disdain, seeing them as kiddy stuff.

At some point, "nerd" was transformed into a consumer identity. It was less about tech obsessed hackers and more about consuming the products that were linked to this subculture.

Some guy who collected funkopops and obssessively watched anime (which we called Japanimation back in the day) but had no interest or skill at all in tech would be seen as a wierdo, not a 'nerd'.

part of that I blame on public school.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Death of hollywood basically condenses down to "People in charge no longer like what they are creating, and their hatred shows very easily"

That and spicier conspiracy theories.

Who builds a better house? Someone who loves houses, or someone who despises them as a concept?

pretty much and said thing is bankrupting and destroying hollywood.

I expect this to end with a whole lot of 'artists' getting canned and kicked out of the industry.
 

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
In addition to the quality decline of Hollywood movies, there are other cultural reasons as to why movies are declining. You have to remember that Hollywood became big in the first place because people didn't have anywhere near as many entertainment options as they do today. You could read a book, listen to the radio, or go to the movies. The advent of television freightened hollywood. And then video games happened, and then the internet happened. People can pursue whatever their niche is, be it playing forum mafia or reading fanfics or web comics or streaming old anime or watching Youtubers or whatever. Even if American movies were still good, there would be many people who would rather do something else for entertainment than watching American movies.

CGI often looks worse than it did in the 90s. Jurassic Park is often regarded as the Zenith for dinosaurs, with Jurassic World being a significant downgrade. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantamania has been widely panned for it's awful CGI, and Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny looks cheap and creepy. Why has it gotten significantly worse even as technology has advanced?

Two reasons. First, CGI is outsourced to the lowest bidder, and CGI studios are overbooked trying to take on as many contracts as they can. So they are rushing and incentivized to just get by with the minimum amount of effort required. The moviemakers are often reshooting and revising their movie down to only a couple weeks before release, so again the CGI studios don't have enough time to make it look as good as it did. Jurassic Park was made at a time when there wasn't an enornous demand for CGI work, so the studio could direct all their time and attention towards it.

Second, the CGI was better concealed. The CGI dinosaurs in Jurassic Park were often either only shown in the dark and obscured by rain, or shown in the daylight in the far distance. They were rarely shown close up in daylight, and only for a few seconds so you don't have time to scrutinize the details. In modern capeshit, the CGI is shown closeup in daylight for long periods of time, and too many elements are plastered over the image that gives it a plastic look.
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
This combined yields, I think, the current issues. The makers of films feel compelled to take the easy route and go for more expensive franchise films. However, they have to cut too many corners to do it. They rely on expensive franchises, expensive actors, and expensive producers but that means a huge budget so they cheap out on everything that doesn't have Star Power, specifically special effects and especially writers. In turn the writers despise the films they're forced to remake, so they rebel by going against the film's original message, and inserting their own spin because they are the artistes, not mere imitators and they deserve better than having to just redo some older work and produce some lowbrow sci-fi garbage for nerds. They have vision, they are the important people here. So they race-bend the main character, change the entire theme to be Girl Power instead of Romance, remove things they regard as "problematic" to insert "The Message" instead, and because they are too self-entitled and inexperienced, they aren't able to make the story work anymore. They've cut out the foundation without having any way to build a foundation of their own.
I've been nursing a similar line of thought. Imagine being a SJW type, absolutely convinced of your righteousness and over-inflated sense of self-worth. That your every thought is important and amazing due heredity birthright whether that's sex, race, orientation ect. From virtually the cradle you've been spoonfed that you are inherently better than straight, white males.

So then imagine how such a fragile ego reacts when as writers the only work that exists is writing scripts for properties like Jurassic Park, Transformers, Star Wars ect. Franchises that are popular with and essentially cater to those same straight, white males you despise rather than something "for" the presumed marginalized people. Leading to the bizarre remakes and sequels were a franchise is gutted and worn like a skin-suit for their own agenda.

Likely in equal measures Ariel is race-swapped because they can't get funding for their movie otherwise and as a childishly way to "hurt" the intended, hated audiance. A sort of "Oh you liked this, well to bad. It's mine now! I made Ariel black, I made Rey better than your hero Luke"
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I've been nursing a similar line of thought. Imagine being a SJW type, absolutely convinced of your righteousness and over-inflated sense of self-worth. That your every thought is important and amazing due heredity birthright whether that's sex, race, orientation ect. From virtually the cradle you've been spoonfed that you are inherently better than straight, white males.

So then imagine how such a fragile ego reacts when as writers the only work that exists is writing scripts for properties like Jurassic Park, Transformers, Star Wars ect. Franchises that are popular with and essentially cater to those same straight, white males you despise rather than something "for" the presumed marginalized people. Leading to the bizarre remakes and sequels were a franchise is gutted and worn like a skin-suit for their own agenda.

Likely in equal measures Ariel is race-swapped because they can't get funding for their movie otherwise and as a childishly way to "hurt" the intended, hated audiance. A sort of "Oh you liked this, well to bad. It's mine now! I made Ariel black, I made Rey better than your hero Luke"

When you go in with ego and pride you better be able to back it up or your in for a world of hurt.
 

ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
I've been nursing a similar line of thought. Imagine being a SJW type, absolutely convinced of your righteousness and over-inflated sense of self-worth. That your every thought is important and amazing due heredity birthright whether that's sex, race, orientation ect. From virtually the cradle you've been spoonfed that you are inherently better than straight, white males.

So then imagine how such a fragile ego reacts when as writers the only work that exists is writing scripts for properties like Jurassic Park, Transformers, Star Wars ect. Franchises that are popular with and essentially cater to those same straight, white males you despise rather than something "for" the presumed marginalized people. Leading to the bizarre remakes and sequels were a franchise is gutted and worn like a skin-suit for their own agenda.

Likely in equal measures Ariel is race-swapped because they can't get funding for their movie otherwise and as a childishly way to "hurt" the intended, hated audiance. A sort of "Oh you liked this, well to bad. It's mine now! I made Ariel black, I made Rey better than your hero Luke"
There's a term for all of this.

"Humiliation Ritual".
 

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