Alec Baldwin shoots 2 on set of western, 1 dead

[ShadowArxxy]

I don't think Baldwin deserves to be charged more than the other producers, because the negligence in the safety setup applies equally to all of the people with final decision making authority. On the other hand, given his physical presence on set, he can't pretend he wasn't aware that there were very serious safety violations going on that the producers *flatly ignored*, and even in the aftermath continue to insist *shouldn't count*.

Seriously -- multiple negligent discharges with blank ammunition in the past couple of days should have been treated as a come-to-Jesus wakeup and resulted in an immediate safety audit of EVERYTHING, culminating in at absolute minimum making Gutierrez-Reed full time armorer with as as many hours as she needed to carry out all safety checks, briefings, and training.

Instead, the producers' attitude was, "It was only blanks so it doesn't count as a safety incident, we are not required to take any corrective action at all. I'm sure it'll be fine."

 

[Agent23]

Wait, this guy isn't in prison?

 

[Typhonis]

I don't think Baldwin deserves to be charged more than the other producers, because the negligence in the safety setup applies equally to all of the people with final decision making authority. On the other hand, given his physical presence on set, he can't pretend he wasn't aware that there were very serious safety violations going on that the producers *flatly ignored*, and even in the aftermath continue to insist *shouldn't count*.

Seriously -- multiple negligent discharges with blank ammunition in the past couple of days should have been treated as a come-to-Jesus wakeup and resulted in an immediate safety audit of EVERYTHING, culminating in at absolute minimum making Gutierrez-Reed full time armorer with as as many hours as she needed to carry out all safety checks, briefings, and training.

Instead, the producers' attitude was, "It was only blanks so it doesn't count as a safety incident, we are not required to take any corrective action at all. I'm sure it'll be fine."

I'm surprised OSHA hasn't tried pressing charges if they can. Hell, multiple, MULTIPLE near misses always precede an incident.

 

[Cherico]

Wait, this guy isn't in prison?

He stumped for Biden and lives in a blue state...

 

[Robovski]

As you know rules for thee, not for me; government enforcement is for the opposition, neutral non-donors, and the politically expendable.

 

[Jormungandr]

So, Baldwin basically paid the guy off.

Figures.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

So, Baldwin basically paid the guy off.

Figures.

For potential civil liability, an out of court settlement is generally the best option. You’re not going to get that many cases where the family of the bereaved wants to pursue a court case at all costs, and the law in many states actively discourages doing so.

Wait, this guy isn't in prison?

It's still being investigated and the police are keeping it close to the vest, although the DA's office *have* said they expect to potentially charge between one and four people once the investigation wraps.

I'm surprised OSHA hasn't tried pressing charges if they can. Hell, multiple, MULTIPLE near misses always precede an incident.

OSHA doesn't have the authority to press criminal charges; that's the DA's office and that process is ongoing. New Mexico is one of the states that runs its own OSHA, and they fined Rust a substantial $137,000 for safety violations surrounding the incident. That fine is peanuts in relative terms, but keep in mind that's *just* the fines for the *secondary* safety violations.

What makes the OSHA investigation important is that it's dynamite evidence for both the civil lawsuit filed by the families (which is definitely why it was settled instead of trying to draw it out) and any pending criminal charges.

Note that the DA has released a statement explicitly clarifying that the civil settlement has *no* effect on the potential pending criminal charges. The wording of the statement is quite clearly taking a shot at Baldwin using his wealth to slide on the liability:

“While civil suits are settled privately and often involve financial awards, criminal cases deal only in facts. If the facts and evidence warrant criminal charges under New Mexico law then charges will be brought. No one is above the law.”

The way I see it, the question at this point is, are they targeting Baldwin and the other producers for their gross negligence, or are they charging Baldwin and others involved in the direct shooting? Given the facts uncovered by OSHA I'm pretty clearly siding with the former, but it's entirely possible the DA has access to facts not in the OSHA investigation and/or simply sees things differently.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Live updates: Alec Baldwin to be charged in fatal 'Rust' shooting

Involuntary manslaughter charges for Baldwin and the armorer.

I'm hoping this incident ends this stupid, stupid thing where actors aren't expected to check their guns to ensure they're unloaded. The number of comments I've seen from morons about how actors aren't firearm experts and can't be expected to know how to do that is infuriating.

All he had to was open the loading gate and count to 6 as he rotates the cylinder. Baldwin's an intellectual lightweight, sure, but I think he can manage that.

 

[Rocinante]

Live updates: Alec Baldwin to be charged in fatal 'Rust' shooting

Involuntary manslaughter charges for Baldwin and the armorer.

I'm hoping this incident ends this stupid, stupid thing where actors aren't expected to check their guns to ensure they're unloaded. The number of comments I've seen from morons about how actors aren't firearm experts and can't be expected to know how to do that is infuriating.

All he had to was open the loading gate and count to 6 as he rotates the cylinder. Baldwin's an intellectual lightweight, sure, but I think he csn manage that.

Since my earlier arguments on this subject, I've come around to this side.

My original perspective was that actors are just actors and trusting others to do this. So it's not his fault.

My current perspective is that you can't be too careful. I check that my guns are empty before handing them off, even if I already know they're empty. There's no reason actors shouldn't be doing this, too.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

If the facts I’ve seen asserted are accurate (producers including Baldwin restricted armorer hours, abrogated armorer authority, barred her from the set as non-vital, and even specifically banned her from doing safety briefings), the armorer should not be held at fault. However, it’s entirely reasonable to hash that out in a court of law.

It is also worth highlighting that the only reason Dave Halls is not being charged with manslaughter as well is he pled guilty to a slightly lesser offense. TBH I wouldn’t have offered him that plea deal, unless they really needed firsthand witness testimony against Baldwin that badly.

 

[LordsFire]

If you are going to handle a real gun, you learn the basics of safety.

They aren't that complicated, and the severity of the consequences when you screw up mean you must do it.

If you've been handling guns for years, you have zero excuse. Especially because when you're not even shooting, just rehearsing, there is no reason to have even blanks in the gun. Empty it as a matter of course.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Baldwin got lethally complacent from years of working primarily “big” movies where there’s an entire professional armory department which firearms safety is delegated to. But he has no excuse here because as a co-producer of the film, he was fully involved in the decisions made to limit the armory department to ONE PART TIME EMPLOYEE (which is absolutely insane on a movie as aggressively firearms heavy as a western) and to sharply limiting the authority of the armorer to actually make decisions *specifically* in retaliation for her making safely calls that the producers deemed inconvenient. Moreover, Baldwin set a horrible example by aggressively blowing off safety briefings as an actor, while also curtailing safety briefings as a producer.

And yes, I absolutely agree that even under the supervision of a professional armory staff, firearm safety is the responsibility of everyone who lays a hand on a gun. This is also why Dave Halls arguments that he wasn’t responsible downright enrage me; he was saying firearm safety checks were Hannah’s responsibility as armorer even though he and other higher staff undermined and overrode her at every opportunity, outright barred her from being physically present on set, and he was the one who actually botched a simple chamber check and then explicitly told Baldwin it was a cold gun.

 

[Tyzuris]

So I checked some New Mexican law firm's website about involuntary manslaughter, and apparently the punishment in New Mexico is up to 18 month in prison. Combine that with the state level prison sentence parole system in the USA where one gets (with good behaviour, etc...) parole after two thirds of the prison sentence, at most Alec Baldwin can expect a year in the slammer.

 

[Cherico]

So I checked some New Mexican law firm's website about involuntary manslaughter, and apparently the punishment in New Mexico is up to 18 month in prison. Combine that with the state level prison sentence parole system in the USA where one gets (with good behaviour, etc...) parole after two thirds of the prison sentence, at most Alec Baldwin can expect a year in the slammer.

thats actually longer then I expected.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

thats actually longer then I expected.

It's comparable to federal sentencing guidelines, which set a range of 15-21 months for reckless involuntary manslaughter.

Combine that with the state level prison sentence parole system in the USA where one gets (with good behaviour, etc...) parole after two thirds of the prison sentence, at most Alec Baldwin can expect a year in the slammer.

It's still a felony conviction, which is a *huge deal* -- loss of right to vote, loss of right to possess firearms, etc.

 

[Robovski]

Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter in Rust shooting

Prosecutors accuse the actor of many "extremely reckless acts" as he is charged with an on-set death.

www.bbc.com

From the article:
"Alec Baldwin was on the phone during firearms training for a movie where he fatally shot a cinematographer on set, prosecutors said, as they charged him with involuntary manslaughter.
Santa Fe's District Attorney's Office accused the actor of "many instances of extremely reckless acts".

The charging document outlines at least a dozen "acts or omissions of recklessness" leading up to the shooting, including:

• Not using a replica firearm for an unscheduled rehearsal
• Letting the armourer leave the set against protocol
• Deviating from the practice of only receiving the gun from the armourer
• Not dealing with safety complaints on set
• Not performing required safety checks with the armourer, who was hired without adequate certification"

I guess Alec isn't in with the in-crowd anymore.

 

[Cherico]

Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter in Rust shooting

Prosecutors accuse the actor of many "extremely reckless acts" as he is charged with an on-set death.

www.bbc.com

From the article:
"Alec Baldwin was on the phone during firearms training for a movie where he fatally shot a cinematographer on set, prosecutors said, as they charged him with involuntary manslaughter.
Santa Fe's District Attorney's Office accused the actor of "many instances of extremely reckless acts".

The charging document outlines at least a dozen "acts or omissions of recklessness" leading up to the shooting, including:

• Not using a replica firearm for an unscheduled rehearsal
• Letting the armourer leave the set against protocol
• Deviating from the practice of only receiving the gun from the armourer
• Not dealing with safety complaints on set
• Not performing required safety checks with the armourer, who was hired without adequate certification"

I guess Alec isn't in with the in-crowd anymore.

Be real surprised if he did a year

 

[Jormungandr]

Be real surprised if he did a year

He won't see the inside of a prison cell for any length of time.

Even if he is a loathsome cunt, he's a rich celebrity, after all.

 

[stephen the barbarian]

a Statement of Probable Cause has been released by the da.
if you have the time it's very thorough, but really nothing that hasn't come up before.
Baldwin failed as both an actor and as a producer, while Reed failed as an armorer.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

If I was on a movie set, I'm not pulling the trigger on any firearm unless I have personally inspected the magazine/cartridges inserted into it, and ensured nothing is in the chamber to start with.