Alternate History Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
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Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Nope
On the contrary, they were quite good, just in our case, just good means average. (Well, except maybe Sigismund III Vasa, one of our best rulers on the Polish throne).
Buba
A total creep
We will have to disagree, then.
Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
And why is that? New research, contradicts old findings.
Buba
A total creep
Too much to type, and off topic, and in our 2nd language
Go to historycy.org and read the horror stories about JIIK there ...
Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
And Jan Kazimierz is the entire Vasa dynasty? Do his mistakes dwarf the merits of his father or brother? Although, to be fair, if as hopeless as one would like to accuse Poland would be in a much worse position than it was. Simply put, our demands on rulers have always been higher than others. Another thing is that a good part of his troubles were the result of the influence of his wife "inherited" from his older brother.Too much to type, and off topic, and in our 2nd language
Go to historycy.org and read the horror stories about JIIK there ...
Hence, a king in our country who is considered inept would be a very mediocre and average ruler in other countries. There, the period of his rule would be a period of blandness, in ours a period of disaster.
And JIIK was, unfortunately, a combination of an extremely difficult and stubborn character with a surprising fall into influence from people who absolutely should not have that much influence on him.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
‘Augusto Pinochet (2006) SI To Joseph Stalin (1924)’.
Well.. on the one hand, lots of purges are sure to ensue. But on the other, he can’t be any worse than OTL Stalin was (especially since he purged even fellow communists, anyway), and he’ll likely implement market reforms that ensure the USSR remains economically competitive and can survive on more than inertia and sheer size.
Well.. on the one hand, lots of purges are sure to ensue. But on the other, he can’t be any worse than OTL Stalin was (especially since he purged even fellow communists, anyway), and he’ll likely implement market reforms that ensure the USSR remains economically competitive and can survive on more than inertia and sheer size.
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Alternative What If: The revolution in Iran FAILS and the ramifications throughout the world.Too much to type, and off topic, and in our 2nd language
Go to historycy.org and read the horror stories about JIIK there ...
Buba
A total creep
Not being as bad as Stalin is a very low bar to pass. Few managed to equal or exceed him. Arguably Hitler only managed 0,90-0,95 centistalins.
Purging - or to use a non-obfuscating term - murdering the rest of the Bolshevik leadership like Trotsky is a Good Thing for Humanity.
By 1940 there is a more prosperous USSR, the NEP and Dengitesque reforms leading to a semi-market economy. Spanish Civil War ends 12-18 months sooner.
Hitler attacks Poland on schedule and may be even pull off Wesserubung and Fall Gelb as in OTL (in the latter case maybe with FFO outcome), but WWII is very different from how we know it. Ends in 1943 latest if we include Japan (which is a rabid dog clocking over 80 centistalins) doing its OTL shit in the Far East.
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Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
"Centistalins" — I like that!
Anyway, you're probably right about the Bolshevik leadership getting offed sooner here. Most notably, Trotsky meeting his fate sooner, though even then, facing a firing squad (or perhaps, being shoved off a plane into Lake Vladivostok) is still arguably more dignified than being exiled and stabbed to death via icepick. The rest of Stalin's inner circle will probably join him, too, I'm guessing, with the current and future secret-police chiefs (currently Dzerzhinsky, as well as Yagoda, Yezhov, and Beria to follow) especially deserving it, even ignoring all the OTL atrocities they've yet to commit. Same for "middle-management Stalinists" like Kaganovich, who — even as a ranking subordinate, rather than a dictator unto himself — probably had more blood on his hands than OTL Pinochet or Franco ever did, helping orchestrate the Holodomor and all that. Of course, that also raises the question of who's left for "Stalin" to delegate tasks to, due to all the purges of the Soviet government that'll inevitably ensue?
Buba
A total creep
I stole the idea from the delightful "Overlady" fanfic - there two sisters measured how mean people were by rating them against their awful sister from hell - hence centi-Eleanores."Centistalins" — I like that!
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Is it bad for me to say that Wladyslav IV was one of the best Vasa kings of Poland? I mean, he and his successor were rulers when Khmelnitskyi launched his rebellion.Too much to type, and off topic, and in our 2nd language
Go to historycy.org and read the horror stories about JIIK there ...
Buba
A total creep
The PLC had three Vasa rulers. Władysław does seem to be the least bad of the lot, with Zygmunt and Jan Kazimierz in fierce competition for the bottom slot.
The Khmelnitskyi Rebellion - which began more or less when Vlad "joined the Choir Invisible" and was "no longer with us" - can be at least attributed to him, e.g. his failure in enforcing the Rule of Law in Ukraine, letting local
Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Both of you are wrong. In fact, the order of best, worst is identical to the order of the following Vasa.
The best was Sigismund III (according to current knowledge which has strongly revised the previous view of him), the second is Ladislaus IV (although current knowledge is no longer as favorable as former knowledge, recognizing that he was unduly exalted. He was worse than previously thought, although he was not a bad ruler. Worse than his father in many things, but good enough to be considered a successful king). Jan II Casimir is unquestionably the worst of them, a mediocre and highly average king, which in the Polish situation means an inept king who should never have taken power.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Wasn't Gustavus Adolphus, aka one of the best generals in the 30 years war part of that dynasty?
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Buba
A total creep
I thought we were talking about the PLC branch?
Slowly taking power would be not easy for general.He could die.And we would have another sralin as leader.
But,in 1928? It would worked.
Do not made kolchoz,kill old soviet guard,and made NEP again.He could die,but with decent chances for making it.
WW2 never happened - becouse he simply really help czech instead of faking it.Germans croak after 1-2 months becouse lack of ammo.
Read it.Really much better then oryginal.I especially love "innocent" childrens on Albion supported by "bad" elves.
One of best generals,and shitty ruler which involved Sweden in german affairs - fighting for french cause.
Only good ruler there was Richelieu who made Adolphus his attack dog.