Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

[TheRomanSlayer]

I would say that the biggest source of instability for an independent Grand Duchy of Lithuania should they and Poland separate in 1548 would be its Orthodox population, since there were various Orthodox lords who wanted to join Muscovy. Of course, I'm not sure if Lithuania had an ambition to conquer Muscovy, but they were traditionally friends with the Novgorod Republic.

Getting back to the main post that I wrote regarding Scandinavia, I would think that Sweden would have achieved its cherished goal of turning the Baltic Sea into its own lake, and yes I was thinking of Denmark becoming another Crown like Bohemia, not Hungary.

 

[ATP]

I would say that the biggest source of instability for an independent Grand Duchy of Lithuania should they and Poland separate in 1548 would be its Orthodox population, since there were various Orthodox lords who wanted to join Muscovy. Of course, I'm not sure if Lithuania had an ambition to conquer Muscovy, but they were traditionally friends with the Novgorod Republic.

Getting back to the main post that I wrote regarding Scandinavia, I would think that Sweden would have achieved its cherished goal of turning the Baltic Sea into its own lake, and yes I was thinking of Denmark becoming another Crown like Bohemia, not Hungary.

No,they do not wonted that.In Lithuania they were free people,in Moscow - tsar rabs/slaves/.
But Lithuania still needed ally against Moscow - Sweden would do.Lithuania crown for swedish King? why not ?

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Yeah, I think so. It might be interesting if Lithuania might be the one to conquer Muscovy instead of what happened IOTL. At one point, Tver and Novgorod were Lithuanian allies, and a 1511 sack of Moscow was planned, but for some odd reason it was scrapped. Although if Lithuania didn't play their cards right, Muscovy might be on its way to become Russia down the road.

 

[Atarlost]

I have a thought for a double ended ISoT.
When Greenwitch Naval Observatory ticks over from 1900 to 1901 the United Kingdom and all its ships at sea enter the 10th century instead of the 20th. The 20th century gets the British Isles as they existed in AD 901.

On the one end, how does 20th century Europe develop without the influence of the UK? On the other end can England achieve food self sufficiency either through bringing abandoned land under cultivation or by conquering France.

 

[Buba]

I have a thought for a double ended ISoT.
When Greenwitch Naval Observatory ticks over from 1900 to 1901 the United Kingdom and all its ships at sea enter the 10th century instead of the 20th. The 20th century gets the British Isles as they existed in AD 901.

1 - All those overseas investments go down the drain ...
There will be quite a few Vikings dangling from yardarms - in 1901 pirates were killed, not cuddled like a hundred years later.
All those RN ships on foreign/colonial stations are stranded. Most are coal fired, which means that they will have problems coming back.
As to food - some lean years, I'd expect. Rationing? Excess population gets carted off to North America as it is close by and fertile and the prairies do not require deforesting.
Lots of sight seeing by British aristocracy and middle class.
The Anglican Communion may end up in Communion with Catholic Orthodoxy as another Patriarchate?

2 - I expect the Empire to make an attempt at staying together.
I suppose the Boer War is over, the 250K British troops losing its logistical base and funding. Nice source of settlers, BTW
The Balance of Power is upset. Nevertheless it is possible that nobody makes a move for the British Isles - as doing so provokes a dogpile of other Powers. Sort of Thailand situation. There could be some push and shove for British colonies.
India - well, there is no India yet. There will be an economic crisis for sure. Politically it might stay together, the Colonial Administration still being in place and - for a time - paid for troops. The Princes have no interest in everything going up in flames.
A world economic crisis due to loss of UK as destination of exports and exporter of capital.

 

[ATP]

I have a thought for a double ended ISoT.
When Greenwitch Naval Observatory ticks over from 1900 to 1901 the United Kingdom and all its ships at sea enter the 10th century instead of the 20th. The 20th century gets the British Isles as they existed in AD 901.

On the one end, how does 20th century Europe develop without the influence of the UK? On the other end can England achieve food self sufficiency either through bringing abandoned land under cultivation or by conquering France.

1900 - England could conqer world,not only France.You get british Empire in space by 1100 AD.And without any leftist bullshit.
Europe without England - if Scotland and Ireland remained british from 1900,they retake it.If not,somebody else would do so.
Officially,for their own good.
Europe - still WW1,becouse everybody except A-H wonted it.But,without England,entire Belgium would be taken.France still hold,Russia still fall...
If USA join France,nothing change.If not - German Europe.And WW2 started by Russia and France.
But,if Allies win,without England to defend germans,Germany would be divided like AH.So,no WW2.

In our times - Earth with England from 1900 in 901 would be English space empire with FTL and many space colonies - which could fight for independence.
Earth without modern England - WW2 in which germany loss.And start another war.Or Ryssia lost and start another war.Wars every 20-30 years.Europe would burn till 2020.
But,if Allies win WW1 and divide germany,no more world wars.Europe with strong France,but not as empire ruling others.

 

[Buba]

You get british Empire in space by 1100 AD

And thus the question "Can England into space?" is finally answered ...

 

[VictortheMonarch]

This is something I do time to time after watching nature Documentaries. I think more people should do it, but if not who cares. Anyways, here we go.

The southern capuchin monkey was first introduced in 1701 as pets, when retired privateers and retired pirates came to the Thirteen colonies, bringing their furry friends with them. The wealthy, seeing the Capuchins, wanted the South American monkey for themselves, and thus many southern plantation owners sent out men to find them. many monkeys would end up being abandoned, as the trend of owning the monkeys would die out after ten years. Those monkeys still alive were often abandoned, and left to the wild. Many monkeys died alone, but luckily (or unluckily) a few did form troops, and that was all that was needed as the monkeys rapidly spread.

with time they would change, becoming more adapted to the environment they lived in and the climate, leading to them traveling further north, as far up as the Tennessee-Virginia border.

During the Civil War, both sides would spawn rumors of Capuchin's as 'Ear Biters', leading to a few mass huntings of the monkeys. In the Modern day the monkeys are fair game for hunting, with three monkeys allowed per person, alternatively, if the monkeys cause problems for farmers, an entire troop can be exterminated with no repercussions.

(Map of Southern Capuchin Monkey Range)

 

[Buba]

Have Capuchin Monekys become a delicacy of Appallachian cuisine?

 

[stevep]

I have a thought for a double ended ISoT.
When Greenwitch Naval Observatory ticks over from 1900 to 1901 the United Kingdom and all its ships at sea enter the 10th century instead of the 20th. The 20th century gets the British Isles as they existed in AD 901.

On the one end, how does 20th century Europe develop without the influence of the UK? On the other end can England achieve food self sufficiency either through bringing abandoned land under cultivation or by conquering France.

Well in 900AD a fair number of those ships will suffer due to being too far from any base to gain fuel to get home. Especially since they won't know until they get to somewhere near they intend to go and find there's no base there. This would apply to both naval and merchant shipping. Possibly some of the groups, such as fishing fleets on the Grand Banks might try and settle parts of N America once they realise something has gone wrong and possibly likewise elsewhere.

In the homeland there are going to be rough times although richer fisheries might help. Other than food Britain would lack some chemicals, possibly most of all being supplies of nitrates, needed for both fertilizer and cordite. However after a couple of years hopefully enough external sources or increased home production will bring things into balance. Sweyn and his Danish brigands are going to have a very rough time as will any other pirates and the like.

Overseas its going to be interesting the reaction with the rest of the 900AD world. Britain can take just about anywhere it likes in theory but how eager it would be ruling pretty much dark age Europe would be an issue. Possibly ending up with some plantations in N France and the Low Countries, or even the occupation of Denmark which has scope for both decent food surpluses and also controlling access to the Baltic. Might even end up establishing some sort of protectorate over Iceland, both for better access to the fisheries there and also as a staging post toward N America.

I think in the medium term the priority would be N America and possibly later say S Africa and Australia as their places that Britain knows reasonably well as good sources for food and other areas. How this goes for the inhabitants would be difficult at they would still suffer badly from the assorted disease impacts but hopefully not the same level of brutality as OTL.

In the Med, a tradition area of interest your still got a powerful Byzantium plus assorted Muslim nations to content with as well as many pirates and the Papacy which will seek to have influence over the newcomers. Those interactions could go many ways but I could see Britain seeking to 'regain' Gibraltar and Malta as bases although whether and how soon they would seek to take control over Egypt and reconstruct the canal I don't know. Would be interesting what they find in some of those countries as well.

In terms of 1900 I can't see Anglo-Saxon England, already weakened by repeated Danish attacks or the other states in the isles staying independent any great length of time. Their too weak and geographically important. The wider empire, devoid of its merchant and naval fleets - other than those in bases/ports - still exists but most of it could face problems with more local threats. They could end up trying to stick together for mutual support but even if that works I doubt they would have the resources to defend the homeland. There is the chance that the sudden removal of the UK as a power could trigger an earlier WWI. Either side could win this.

In terms of the wider empire then a lot could be lost. India is going to be difficult as with British power removed there could be assorted groups vying for power as well as potential threats from exterior groups. What's going to happen in the informal empire in China as well, especially with the Boxer Rebellion ongoing is going to be complex. A lot of the regions in Africa could end up falling into chaos, or being encroached on by another European power - or possibly in the north the Ottomans - which again could be a source of conflict in Europe.

Anyway initial ideas on this scenario.

 

[ATP]

Have Capuchin Monekys become a delicacy of Appallachian cuisine?

Why only Appallachian? i never been in USA,but according to what i read people in Luizjana eat almost anything.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Have Capuchin Monekys become a delicacy of Appallachian cuisine?

mmmmm taste

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Why only Appallachian? i never been in USA,but according to what i read people in Luizjana eat almost anything.

Come to America, we will give you Guns and Beer. under 18? Then we won't give you whiskey or anything stronger. Besides that, Tennessee Whiskey flows in the veins of southerners.

 

[Zyobot]

‘Disney Never Buys Star Wars’.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Fans endlessly bemoan the fact that there is no third triology.

 

[Buba]

Fans endlessly bemoan the fact that there is no third triology.

The irony ...
Although I've come across people who like the ST. On another site I was flamed for calling Rey a bimbo and ... whatshisname, the guy with the big nose - Darth Emo. The flamer told me that their romance is the best thing to ever have happened to the Star Wars universe, that dey 2 cute 2gether and that I am mean, old, fat and stupid.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

The irony ...
Although I've come across people who like the ST. On another site I was flamed for calling Rey a bimbo and ... whatshisname, the guy with the big nose - Darth Emo. The flamer told me that their romance is the best thing to ever have happened to the Star Wars universe, that dey 2 cute 2gether and that I mean, old, fat and stupid.

the actors are good people, but the people who wrote the script? Just a bunch of losers.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

After his successful invasion of Byzantium in 1082, it was 'discovered' that 'Michael' was actually a monk named Raiktor, and he was subsequently executed. This marked the end of the Greek Led Byzantium, as the real Michael had not wanted his crown, and as the history books would read 'Take the fucking chair yourself', in a rather gossip-worthy letter. Robert as it would turn out, would love to have taken the crown of Byzantium, and on October 26th, 1082, he was crowned Emperor of all Byzantines. As a ruler he was decent enough, but he was a warrior, so in 1084, he would lead what would be known as Megáli Anakatálipsi, or The Great Reconquest. He would lead the largest army the Byzantines would ever field, as many young men joined his army.

From 1084 to 1091, the Byzantine army would conquer and conquer. Cities that yielded to him were spared, and allowed nominal religious freedom, such as Cairo and Giza. But most cities caused him sufferance. The Cities of Jerusalem, Alexandrea, Damascus, Beirut, Tripoli, and many more suffered near extinction, as most of their people were killed, down to a man. This, as it would turn out, would lead to another war to strike up.

Whilst Robert was off in the Middle East, his heir Roger Borsa was the Duke of Apulia, and was fighting a war that seemed impossible.

The HRE under Henry II was invading Apulia, with the aid of the Pope, it seems as if Roger would die, but he was able to lead decent enough defense, keeping the HRE from advancing, and was able to hold them off, until Robert would return. As it turns out, Robert was pissed.

After defeating the Emirs of Africa, he set sail and landed in Pisa, burning it to the ground. he would kill from Tuscany down to Rome, and forced The Pope and the HRE to grant him vast tracts of land. The next day the Pope had hung himself, with a distant relative of the de Normandie line become Pope Honorius II.

Robert would die in 1105, from Typhoid fever. He would pass the throne to Roger Borsa, who would become Roger I "the Lawgiver'. The Hauteville family would continue in Byzantium until modern day, as one of the longest royal lineages to exist.

Several prominent Hauteville Royals.

-Robert I "The Fox" Hauteville

-Roger I "The Lawgiver" Hauteville

- William VI "The Burning" Hauteville

-Roger II "The Possessed" Hauteville

-Robert III "The Fury" Hauteville

- William IV "The Good" Hauteville

- Alexander I "The Ironside" Hauteville

-Robert X "Eagle Eye" Hauteville

 

[Atarlost]

the actors are good people, but the people who wrote the script? Just a bunch of losers.

They got hired by the directors who accepted those scripts. I don't think they were interested in hiring good people.

 

[Buba]

The script made ST characters suXXor to da maXXor - I cannot comment on whether the actors are Good People or Puppy Kicking level of Evul!, but what I saw on the screen was BAD.