True.Only good thing is,that somebody in his cabinet who is not soviet plant warn world about communism,so MAYBE world would avoid it.
Alternate History Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
- Start date
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
The other obvious one is the other Roosevelt. Probably more so even than Washington, as he was happy to leave the job and died the same year he left office. All you have to do is let him bully Taft out of the Republican primary in 1912 and let him sail to his third term in office (though only the second elected). For extra difficulty, but even more laughs, he loses that contest as in OTL but his third party run succeeds, for the first and likely only time in American history (even with his example).
Blasterbot
Well-known member
Technically the republicans were a 3rd party when they started winning too.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
You could argue for that in the House of Representatives, but by the presidential election of 1860 the Whig Party was dead. It was a four way contest and none of them represented the Whigs. I was speaking only in reference to presidential wins.
49ersfootball
Well-known member
Buba got blackballed on this discussion thread I see.
our friend @Buba deserved only harem full of catgirls,elven princess and muscle tomboys !No idea what happened but I do not think @Buba deserved it, you do realize he is not an American and doesn't know of your sacred cows?
And also, Slav sarcasm, due to his high IQ built in is unfathomable to mere anglos.
Dunno about that,my knowledge is lacking.But,if you have good competent tsar when ottomans were still weak,and take Adrianopol instead of them....
Much better world for everybody involved,even turks.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
PC: No Yugoslavia After WWII - Independent and Non-Communist Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia, While Only Serbia and Montenegro become Communist
Would the Balkans have been completely different if the other half of what used to be Yugoslavia west of the Drina River had never come under communist control? Though Tito had some unusual luck in keeping himself alive during those German offensives against the Partisans, in spite of his questionable "abilities", ultimately the Partisans triumphed, leading to the infamous Bleiburg Massacre committed against Croats, and an untold story of the Kočevski Rog Massacre committed against Serbs in Slovenian territory. Also keep in mind that if only Serbia and Montenegro became communist, they'd be more aligned with the Soviets due to the Red Army possibly occupying the entirety of the country.
Would the Balkans have been completely different if the other half of what used to be Yugoslavia west of the Drina River had never come under communist control? Though Tito had some unusual luck in keeping himself alive during those German offensives against the Partisans, in spite of his questionable "abilities", ultimately the Partisans triumphed, leading to the infamous Bleiburg Massacre committed against Croats, and an untold story of the Kočevski Rog Massacre committed against Serbs in Slovenian territory. Also keep in mind that if only Serbia and Montenegro became communist, they'd be more aligned with the Soviets due to the Red Army possibly occupying the entirety of the country.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Who takes over the Western part? Former quislings? Or do you bring in the king (that ought to be funny)? In any case you will have to massacre whole lot of people to make it work. There is also no way for all of Bosnia being controlled by WY, even after pulling much of their forces for liberation of Serbia, partisans still controlled much of the country.
Kočevski Rog massacre was mostly against Slovenes, collaborationist handed over the by the Brits. Some Serbs, Montenegrians and Volksdeutsche were killed there but they were a minority.
Kočevski Rog massacre was mostly against Slovenes, collaborationist handed over the by the Brits. Some Serbs, Montenegrians and Volksdeutsche were killed there but they were a minority.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
The Based answer is “Austria-Hungary.”
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
A 1945 war between Austria and Hungary over who would rule the newly created AH would be an interesting development. I wonder if Croats would do Jelačić 2.0 and try to march against Budapest.
Possible with smarter Hitler - germans would still lost in 1945,but thanks to mushrooms over Berlin.When soviets would still attack Dniepr river line.
We would have free Hungary here.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
I would suspect that a coup made by Vokic and Lorkovic would have been attempted, but IOTL it became unsuccessful.
Vokic-Lorkovic Coup
However, for this to even succeed, you would need the Allies to launch their invasion of the Balkans, which would mean a landing in Greece and Albania, as Churchill would have wanted.
The reason why I intentionally excluded Macedonia in this scenario is mostly because I'm not sure where they would fit in with this alternate post-war scenario. Would they stay with Bulgaria, even though the Bulgarians are on the losing side, or would they rejoin this new Yugoslav state that only consist of Serbia and Montenegro? Yes, given the large Partisan presence in Bosnia, I would suspect that their status would also be hazy as well.
Only if Hitler was smarter and lost less lands on Eastern Front.Becouse England could send there top 20 divisions,so they could take Slovenia,maybe Croatia,but that would be all before soviets come.
Or...England making good tanks in this TL.Imagine what could they do with mass produced Centurion in 1944!
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Alternatively though, would Tito getting killed during Operation Užice also help as well? The Partisans at this time wasn’t as battle hardened as it would be by 1944. Plus if the Partisans were completely destroyed in its early stage, then that would definitely change a lot of what will happen to the Balkans. Without the Partisan problem, Croatia wouldn’t have as much problems as it did IOTL.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Not really, another communist steps into his role, the biggest change would be after the war as Yugoslavian leadership would be mo subservient to Moscow. You also can't destroy the Partisans, their units all over the country, number of their units were destroyed and many leaders killed, yet still new units were formed and new men stepped into leadership roles. One of the main reasons Tito survived the 1948 split with Stalin was that so many pre-war communists were killed and their places were taken by so called war-time communists, veterans of war whose grasp of communists was shaky at best.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
I could imagine that there might be some Serbian communists that would be shockingly subservient to Moscow, like Peko Dapčević, and others. Stalinism in the possibly Serbian and Montenegrin area of Yugoslavia would be different from Titoist Yugoslavia.
On the other hand, how big is the communist resistance in Bosnia? Though without the presumable incompetence of Tito, this would open up a whole new path for the more competent Partisan commanders to rise up.
One other thing in mind is that with Tito presumably killed in Operation Užice, there might also be a small increase in support for the Serbian State Guard and Serbian Volunteer Corps, as they would be associated with crushing the communist rebellion in Serbia. This might also result in possible increase in collaboration efforts between the two collaborationist military units and the Chetniks too.