United States Anti-Semitism in the United States (and elsewhere)

[ShadowArxxy]

ADL are american citizens,too.And result of all those expressed opinion is ,that american children still learn lies about bad polish pigs helping nazi cats who totally was not germans.

And so you're crying about free speech rights because they prevent you from literally silencing Holocaust victims. For the record, that makes you sound exactly like a Nazi yourself.

Perhaps it is because you are not an American and do not understand the importance of civil rights.

It is not about being morality,but survival.People who attack those who helped them once would rarely get help in need.
And nobody is strong enough to never need help.

And I will vote for siding with and helping the Jewish people every time, because I believe that they are morally in the right and have the right to survive.

 

[Agent23]

Do you mean Tuchman?

And if so, are you seriously fucking citing Barbara Tuchman? Tuchman was a goddamn hack. She made Stilwell out to be a hero when he should have been shot for incompetence. Seriously, how the hell do you think the moron who wrote The Guns of August can be credible on anything?

The KMT was doing okay before the Japanese invaded. Not perfect, not by a long shot. But before the Japanese showed up, shit was getting better and the Communist could have been defeated. But then the Japanese invaded, destroyed all of the KMT's ability to get money, their best divisions, and then savaged the KMT for years while the Communists got to sit on their ass and promise the moon like every opposition faction in the history of civilization.

What's next, are you going to tell me to read up on Stephen Ambrose?

Yeah, if you have some proof about your claims, that would be great.

The situation in China was abismal, the KMT was corrupt and incompetent, and their leader had an oversized ego and was a power hungry control freak.

 

[Cherico]

And so you're crying about free speech rights because they prevent you from literally silencing Holocaust victims. For the record, that makes you sound exactly like a Nazi yourself.

Perhaps it is because you are not an American and do not understand the importance of civil rights.


And I will vote for siding with and helping the Jewish people every time, because I believe that they are morally in the right and have the right to survive.

He does have a point it, the people who sold out the jews to the nazi's were traitors to Poland and its fundamentally unfair to judge a nation by its traitors.

 

[Zachowon]

Yeah, if you have some proof about your claims, that would be great.

The situation in China was abismal, the KMT was corrupt and incompetent, and their leader had an oversized ego and was a power hungry control freak.

The KMT were the sole reason China didn't get conquered.
The communists didn't do shit

 

[Cherico]

The KMT were the sole reason China didn't get conquered.
The communists didn't do shit

Incorrect they worked very hard to steal credit.

 

[DarthOne]

Incorrect they worked very hard to steal credit.

As have many communists throughout history.

 

[Zachowon]

Incorrect they worked very hard to steal credit.

Touche, touche

As have many communists throughout history.

Yeah very much so.

Of you look at the figures for the war
The sino Japanese War basically devastated the entire KMT military, thier best trained troops, those trained by the Germans, devastated by the war.

The communists struck once the nationalists were weakened

 

[Agent23]

The KMT were the sole reason China didn't get conquered.

Considering how easily they folded afterwards I doubt they were there effective to begin with.

The communists didn't do shit

And I have said something to the opposite where, exactly?

 

[Zachowon]

Considering how easily they folded afterwards I doubt they were there effective to begin with.

And I have said something to the opposite where, exactly?

The KMT did league's better then the commies and did stop Japanese advancements later on

 

[ATP]

And so you're crying about free speech rights because they prevent you from literally silencing Holocaust victims. For the record, that makes you sound exactly like a Nazi yourself.

Perhaps it is because you are not an American and do not understand the importance of civil rights.

I am from Poland.We had rights when USA do not existed yet.

And you do not undarstandt situation - it is not silencing holocaust victims,it is preventtin lies about us being pigs.
Which is exactly what german during Holocaust said - that we,poles,are pigs.

And I will vote for siding with and helping the Jewish people every time, because I believe that they are morally in the right and have the right to survive.

And right to tell that we are pigs,too? if it is freedom of speech and right to survive,then...

My post is not about being moral,but smart.

Jews could name us,who saved them during Holocaust,as pigs and blame for Holocaust made by germans,not nazis - but when they need help in the future,how many would help them?

People are not as stupid as you think.If jews attack people who saved them and do not blame those who murdered them/germans/ ,then what would happen when somebody start murder them again?

Poles who saved them did it becouse they were good catholics,not fools.How many would help them now,when pope is heretic?

 

[prinCZess]

Jews could name us,who saved them during Holocaust,as pigs

It is relevant to point out here considering how often you've brought it up that this isn't attributable to 'Jews', but Art Spiegelman, the author/illustrator and publisher of Maus. It's also relevant that, and I've not read it, but it portrays everyone as animals--Germans are cats, Jews mice, Americans dogs. This probably why it was an avant-garde self-published thing that only came to receive attention and broader distribution later (and partly, going by wikipedia, because it did that intentionally and ginned up its own marketing via the criticisms).

 

[ATP]

It is relevant to point out here considering how often you've brought it up that this isn't attributable to 'Jews', but Art Spiegelman, the author/illustrator and publisher of Maus. It's also relevant that, and I've not read it, but it portrays everyone as animals--Germans are cats, Jews mice, Americans dogs. This probably why it was an avant-garde self-published thing that only came to receive attention and broader distribution later (and partly, going by wikipedia, because it did that intentionally and ginned up its own marketing via the criticisms).

True.And he is jew,and jewish ADL in USA made protest when one school in Tenesse removed it.No,not becouse of racism,but nudity.

And yes,all nations are animals - but we are pigs.Like during WW2 for germans.When Saint Maximillian come to offer his life for another in Auschwitz,german officer asked "What that polish pig want"

Which ,of course,never was showed in comics - only polish pigs as kapo,which is bullshit.

 

[Scottty]

I am from Poland.We had rights when USA do not existed yet.

And you do not undarstandt situation - it is not silencing holocaust victims,it is preventtin lies about us being pigs.
Which is exactly what german during Holocaust said - that we,poles,are pigs.

And right to tell that we are pigs,too? if it is freedom of speech and right to survive,then...

My post is not about being moral,but smart.

Jews could name us,who saved them during Holocaust,as pigs and blame for Holocaust made by germans,not nazis - but when they need help in the future,how many would help them?

People are not as stupid as you think.If jews attack people who saved them and do not blame those who murdered them/germans/ ,then what would happen when somebody start murder them again?

Poles who saved them did it becouse they were good catholics,not fools.How many would help them now,when pope is heretic?

It does seem as if there are Jews who are pushing a propaganda narrative against white Europeans, based on the false claim that literally all of them helped the Nazis against the Jews.
"We were being exterminated, and the world did nothing!" sort of nonsense.

The saner sort of Jews know better though:
Righteous Among the Nations

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

It does seem as if there are Jews who are pushing a propaganda narrative against white Europeans, based on the false claim that literally all of them helped the Nazis against the Jews.
"We were being exterminated, and the world did nothing!" sort of nonsense.

The saner sort of Jews know better though:
Righteous Among the Nations

It's not just that. Think of the times the Jews were being expelled over 109 times, because of the angry Gentiles who plainly hate them. The pogroms and expulsions have scarred European Jewry deeply.

 

[Cherico]

It's not just that. Think of the times the Jews were being expelled over 109 times, because of the angry Gentiles who plainly hate them. The pogroms and expulsions have scarred European Jewry deeply.

Being a middle minority can really suck ass, as the Armenians, and others can attest.

 

[King Arts]

No, I understand how logistics and politics work unlike you

Well you don't seem to be very good at logistics.

Okay. How to you think the US would be able to get weapons to Russia or Germany without the other getting invovled.

and that isnt how wars work. Real life is a lot diffrent then in games. Maybe in HoI 4 coukd you do that.

In real life you would basically be leveraging your efforts to stop and start shipping lanes on two seperate sides of the world, discounting that the US already had allies invovled in the war. And that supporting Russia would open up shippung lanes to be targeted by Germany, and vice versa for supporting the ither side.

add in that logistic bases heabily depend on a variety of other aspects. Likely natural resources, time to transit.

The overall time from the supply lines to the fromt would be twn fold across Siberia and the Pacific then acriss the atlantic.

add in we would basically be feeding the nations that will want us dead as soon as they conquer Europe.

Why are you asking how we'd get weapons to Russia? We already did that historically with lend lease it went through the Pacific to Siberia and the German U boats weren't able to touch them. We had to worry about Japanese ships. Lend lease to England was the one that we had to watch out for uboats.

If we can supply one we could supply the other as long as the Brits were taken down. And a way to do that is to be hostile to the UK, and people who support them. Treat Anglophiles the same way we did with Japanese people. Internment and confiscation of property.

A cute thought but one that ignores the actual realities of the politics involved.

Firstly, remember that it was not the US that declared war on Germany, rather, Germany declared war on the US in tandem with Japan. This means, immediately, that your "play both sides against each other" plan fails from the word "go". Now, could we not have given ass much lend-lease to the Soviets in order to let the Germans do more damage to them? Yes certainly, but there could not be a point in time where the US could switch sides and play them both against each other.

Now you might object we should have been nicer to Japan to prevent them from declaring war on the US. Many folks have their weird idea that somehow the US could have appeased Japan by waving a hand and keeping trade open? Beyond the fact that the Japanese were clearly an aggressive evil empire that no Christian nation should be trading with given the already committed atrocities before their attack on Pearl Harbor that warranted the US sanctions, there was also the simple fact that the US and Japan were pretty much GOING to have a war sometime in the mid-20th century simply due to the rise of Japanese nationalism and their desire to dominate the western Pacific. The US simply had to many colonies, protectorates, trade interests, and allies in the region to simply hand things over to Japan, as well as a vested interesting in maintaining a strong naval position in the central and western Pacific. While yes, theoretically the US could have remained neutral in a war in Europe in the mid-20th century, War in the Pacific was pretty close to inevitable as it was an old fashioned conflicting spheres of power conflict between two empires where one was going to end up dominating over the other, and once that blew up the Germans decided to get in on the action too, and before you object and say "the German declaration meant nothing, Germany couldn't do anything to threaten or harm the US" while you're to a degree correct about the mainland, they did have a significant submarine force that would be engaging in unrestricted operations against American shipping. Thus they could harm US citizens, property, and interests, albeit pinpricks, but also enough that it would turn popular sentiment against the Germans that would further prevent playing the Soviets and Germans against each other.

Well at least this is a well thought out reply.

But Germany only declared war on us because FDR wanted the war in the first place and did everything he could to manipulate events to pull us in.

If we had people who were committed to America instead of foreign nations we could have helped Germany against the British to get a clear line to Europe, then help the Soviets when they were attacked, then after Stalingrad or Kursk switch back to helping the Germans to keep up the war.


And again America was looking for war with Japan because of the China lobby. It was not our problem, yes the Japs did atrocities so did the British, French, and Belgians in their colonies so no they weren't morally worse on that factor. Also the Japanese invasion of China was doomed to failure the Japanese would have bled and could not have held onto China. It would be their Vietnam or Afghanistan they would have lost men and treasure. We could have made a deal where they don't interrupt our shipments to the Soviets and we let them do what they want in China.

 

[Cherico]

Well you don't seem to be very good at logistics.


Why are you asking how we'd get weapons to Russia? We already did that historically with lend lease it went through the Pacific to Siberia and the German U boats weren't able to touch them. We had to worry about Japanese ships. Lend lease to England was the one that we had to watch out for uboats.

If we can supply one we could supply the other as long as the Brits were taken down. And a way to do that is to be hostile to the UK, and people who support them. Treat Anglophiles the same way we did with Japanese people. Internment and confiscation of property.


Well at least this is a well thought out reply.

But Germany only declared war on us because FDR wanted the war in the first place and did everything he could to manipulate events to pull us in.

If we had people who were committed to America instead of foreign nations we could have helped Germany against the British to get a clear line to Europe, then help the Soviets when they were attacked, then after Stalingrad or Kursk switch back to helping the Germans to keep up the war.


And again America was looking for war with Japan because of the China lobby. It was not our problem, yes the Japs did atrocities so did the British, French, and Belgians in their colonies so no they weren't morally worse on that factor. Also the Japanese invasion of China was doomed to failure the Japanese would have bled and could not have held onto China. It would be their Vietnam or Afghanistan they would have lost men and treasure. We could have made a deal where they don't interrupt our shipments to the Soviets and we let them do what they want in China.

We did not have any one in the diplomatic office with any where near that level of skill.

You have to remember america spent generations in relative isolation its why we had so many mistakes during the cold war we were utter neophytes fighting the russians in their area of greatist skill. While many of our intelectuals and elites stabbed us in the back.

The fact that we did as well as we did and even won is impressive considering that context.

 

[King Arts]

We did not have any one in the diplomatic office with any where near that level of skill.

You have to remember america spent generations in relative isolation its why we had so many mistakes during the cold war we were utter neophytes fighting the russians in their area of greatist skill. While many of our intelectuals and elites stabbed us in the back.

The fact that we did as well as we did and even won is impressive considering that context.

Note I'm not advocating we actually DO what I said.

What I said was horribly evil. War should be stopped the Nazis were evil they tried to wipe out races of people, if the commies were equal or less or more evil is up for debate.

I was just saying that this divide and conquer thing could have worked if America did it, since from looking at history we can see that the British themselves did it in Europe for over 500 years.

 

[Cherico]

Note I'm not advocating we actually DO what I said.

What I said was horribly evil. War should be stopped the Nazis were evil they tried to wipe out races of people, if the commies were equal or less or more evil is up for debate.

I was just saying that this divide and conquer thing could have worked if America did it, since from looking at history we can see that the British themselves did it in Europe for over 500 years.

The british had centuries of experience a diplomatic core that was experienced and knew the history of all of the players in the game and an excellent spy service. Divide and conquer requires a high level of knowlege, diplomatic skill and good spies among other things to pull off correctly.

And we really didn't have that skill set ready to go back then, it took us the entire cold war to get passable at it and we still have major fuck ups under our belt.

 

[Zachowon]

Well you don't seem to be very good at logistics.

Not at all

Why are you asking how we'd get weapons to Russia? We already did that historically with lend lease it went through the Pacific to Siberia and the German U boats weren't able to touch them. We had to worry about Japanese ships. Lend lease to England was the one that we had to watch out for uboats.

And...you think Japan would not have a say in this?

If we can supply one we could supply the other as long as the Brits were taken down. And a way to do that is to be hostile to the UK, and people who support them. Treat Anglophiles the same way we did with Japanese people. Internment and confiscation of property.

And....you woukd basically isolate a large portion of your own people because of common shared ancestry....
You definitely don't understand how this shit works.

Well at least this is a well thought out reply.

But Germany only declared war on us because FDR wanted the war in the first place and did everything he could to manipulate events to pull us in.

Except not really.
it was inevitable thay we would be at war with Japan. Unless we gave up all.of our land holdings out there, it was inevitable

If we had people who were committed to America instead of foreign nations we could have helped Germany against the British to get a clear line to Europe, then help the Soviets when they were attacked, then after Stalingrad or Kursk switch back to helping the Germans to keep up the war.

You do know that they would both probably declare war on us as well?
And the fact we let a close ally be destroyed would make them NOT trust us.
Add in the second they know we support the other side they would probably say no or attack.
This isn't a video game where you can play both sides of a major war without incident

And again America was looking for war with Japan because of the China lobby. It was not our problem, yes the Japs did atrocities so did the British, French, and Belgians in their colonies so no they weren't morally worse on that factor. Also the Japanese invasion of China was doomed to failure the Japanese would have bled and could not have held onto China. It would be their Vietnam or Afghanistan they would have lost men and treasure. We could have made a deal where they don't interrupt our shipments to the Soviets and we let them do what they want in China.

Except they wanted more then China.
They wanted the entire Pacific to be thiers. Unless we gave up our land in the Pacific we were never going to be on good terms with Japan