United States Anti-Semitism in the United States (and elsewhere)

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
No American Jews should not support pan Arabism because both Zionism and supporting Arab states are things we should not do. Arab Americans Chinese Americans and Russian Americans. Should all support America.

It’s ok for immigrants to have favorable feelings to their ancestral lands when you get American citizenship you don’t get amnesia after all. But we should look very closely at any American citizens who are doing lobbying to the government so the US treats their nation favorably.

After all someone earlier talked about a “universal moral franchise” and all being treated well based as individuals instead of what their group did. Thats fair if you stick to that standard consistently.

So if you are ok with AIPAC you should also be fine with Chinese Americans setting up their own lobby same with Arabs Palestinians, and Russians. Are you ok with that or does one group get a racist advantage?

The statement Allanon posed (or implied) was Jews cannot be considered right wing or Conservative if they support Israel (and they should admit responsibility for founding Communism since they are Jewish). That's what I was replying to.

It wasn't an invitation for the next round of "What does random shitdog Sietcher think about the following fifteen red herrings?"
 
Last edited:

King Arts

Well-known member
The statement Allanon posed (or implied) was Jews cannot be considered right wing or Conservative if they support Israel (and they should admit responsibility for founding Communism since they are Jewish). That's what I was replying to.

It wasn't an invitation for the next round of "What does random shitdog Sietcher think about the following fifteen red herrings?"
I don't think he said that Jews can't be right wing. He just said that the majority of them are left wing and have supported communists.

As for being right wing that doesn't really matter? What do you mean when you say "right wing"

Because to me both Arabs and Jews can be right wing, a Palestinian Arab who fights for his people and religion is right wing, a Jewish settler in the IDF who fights for the benefit of his people and their religion is also right wing. Right wing to me means you are loyal to your in group, you help your people. Many Jews in Israel are right wing, but that doesn't really help those who aren't Israeli does it? Left wingers are internationalists and usually do harmful things to the people who are part of their group/society.
Because Arabs in the west that engage in pro Palestine protests are being left wing they are trying to use their new country to help others when it's not in their best interests. And the same applies to the Jews who lobby for Israel. Just because the Republicans gobble it up doesn't mean it's right wing or conservative.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
I don't think he said that Jews can't be right wing. He just said that the majority of them are left wing and have supported communists.

As for being right wing that doesn't really matter? What do you mean when you say "right wing"

Okay... so here is the flow of the conversation.

Allanon: Jews are the Biggest Backers of Feminism and Leftism and Communism. Jews never supported my creamy ass. Jews never speak up against their own. Jews are leftism. Even Jews on this Website, the Sietch, are whiny "middle men minority" bitches. Jews can easily speak out but never do. Woe is me.






Lordsfire: Jews do speak out. What about Ben Shapiro? What about Dennis Prager?


Allanon: Oh wow, that's a couple. Do those or any Jews speak out against Leftist Jews (Wrong). Those Jews never Speak Out Against Israel. Those Jews Never Admit Responsibility for the Creating the Soviet Union and Communism. Woe is me some more. Name six Feminists and I bet they're all eternal Jews!


Me, Husky Khan In Response to Allanon: Most Jews do support Israel. Does that exclude them from being Right Wing/Conservative? Should the Right Wing/Conservative alternative to Israel besides isolationism/libertarianism be supporting Arab Socialism/Baathists/Islamists etc. Should Jews admit responsibility for Creating the Rise of the Soviet Union and Communism Decades Ago? Is that a Right Wing/Conservative Value.


You Responding to Me
: What is Husky's opinion on AIPAC? Does Husky Support Chinese Lobbying? Arabs and Palestinians can be conservative and right wing. Being Right Wing means being loyal to your group. So actually all of these Identitarians are right wing! Look at my opinions and takes, aren't they super original? What is Husky's definition of Right Wing even though we're not talking about Husky's definition of Right Wing and she's actually asking what Allanon's definition of Right Wing is since he's the one making all of these positive claims on the Jews!

Me Right Now: It's too late to make a meme mocking him for my personal amusement and I'll be busy this weekend with soccer shit... hmmm... I guess I'll go into a low effort shitposting pattern of responses until I'm bored or Original Sixth wants to discuss Halo/Star Wars OOB's again.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Okay... so here is the flow of the conversation.

Allanon: Jews are the Biggest Backers of Feminism and Leftism and Communism. Jews never supported my creamy ass. Jews never speak up against their own. Jews are leftism. Even Jews on this Website, the Sietch, are whiny "middle men minority" bitches. Jews can easily speak out but never do. Woe is me.






Lordsfire: Jews do speak out. What about Ben Shapiro? What about Dennis Prager?


Allanon: Oh wow, that's a couple. Do those or any Jews speak out against Leftist Jews (Wrong). Those Jews never Speak Out Against Israel. Those Jews Never Admit Responsibility for the Creating the Soviet Union and Communism. Woe is me some more. Name six Feminists and I bet they're all eternal Jews!


Me, Husky Khan In Response to Allanon: Most Jews do support Israel. Does that exclude them from being Right Wing/Conservative? Should the Right Wing/Conservative alternative to Israel besides isolationism/libertarianism be supporting Arab Socialism/Baathists/Islamists etc. Should Jews admit responsibility for Creating the Rise of the Soviet Union and Communism Decades Ago? Is that a Right Wing/Conservative Value.


You Responding to Me: What is Husky's opinion on AIPAC? Does Husky Support Chinese Lobbying? Arabs and Palestinians can be conservative and right wing. Being Right Wing means being loyal to your group. So actually all of these Identitarians are right wing! Look at my opinions and takes, aren't they super original? What is Husky's definition of Right Wing even though we're not talking about Husky's definition of Right Wing and she's actually asking what Allanon's definition of Right Wing is since he's the one making all of these positive claims on the Jews!

Me Right Now: It's too late to make a meme mocking him for my personal amusement and I'll be busy this weekend with soccer shit... hmmm... I guess I'll go into a low effort shitposting pattern of responses until I'm bored or Original Sixth wants to discuss Halo/Star Wars OOB's again.
Have fun at soccer.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
No American Jews should not support pan Arabism because both Zionism and supporting Arab states are things we should not do. Arab Americans Chinese Americans and Russian Americans. Should all support America.

It’s ok for immigrants to have favorable feelings to their ancestral lands when you get American citizenship you don’t get amnesia after all. But we should look very closely at any American citizens who are doing lobbying to the government so the US treats their nation favorably.

After all someone earlier talked about a “universal moral franchise” and all being treated well based as individuals instead of what their group did. Thats fair if you stick to that standard consistently.

So if you are ok with AIPAC you should also be fine with Chinese Americans setting up their own lobby same with Arabs Palestinians, and Russians. Are you ok with that or does one group get a racist advantage?
Friend/enemy distinction matters.

Israel is our friend, the CCP, the Ayatollah, and Putin's Russia are not.

American-Israeli dual citizenship is a rather common thing for many Jews in the US, because modern Israel was founded AFTER the US was, and outside of the US, there was no real 'safe' places for Jews, unless they got their homeland back.

Stop expecting people to be suicidally stupid in ignoring friend/enemy distinction for ideological purity reasons.

There are always things that can be justified when done to an enemy, not a friend.
 

CurtisLemay

Wargamer, Amateur Historian, Writer
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
So you name a couple. Big deal. Do they ever bash THEIR OWN DEMOGRAPHIC for its disproportionate presence in leftism, the way mine bashes itself? What are their views on Israel's actions? Do they admit to their responsibility for the rise of Communism and what that did? Or do they stick to safe anti-leftism bashing, which is worthless at best and a cynic might see as plausible deniability?
(Apologies, this is going to be long).

I got a question? Why? Why should we rend our clothes for your beef? Seriously. I gotta attack my own people to prove my anti-communist bonifides or the fact I am a Reagan Republican? Um...no.

Pal, got a news flash for you. My own family, every male with the exception of me (Epilepsy) has served since World War I. I was more than ready to do my part in the Fulda Gap making sure those commie bastards (and make no mistake, they are) stayed on their side of the IGB. Figures they toss in the towel before I got my turn.

My family has killed Nazis, Imperial Japanese, and Communists on the battlefield. And I am someone who has voted GOP since George HW Bush. So please, can it. And pick up a book?

Do I think my bretheren who vote knee-jerk Democrat are idiots? Yes. But demanding some sort of rending of clothes and contrition for some mythical involvement in the rise of communism?

Most of the Soviet leadership hated Jews. Anti-semitism under the Czars was brutal and vicious. The Soviets were not much better. Why did Jews even support Lenin? Simple. Because of the Czar. And yes, Lenin lied to them. No kidding, he lied to everyone. Ask the sailors of Krondstadt, well, you can't. Lenin slaughtered them after pushing them to rebel against him, and these sailors had been among the most loyal Bolsheviks.

As for Jews here? Why do we vote Democrat? Two reasons, a)tradition. Grandpa voted Democrat, Dad voted Democrat, Mom did, Aunt Ethel did? Get it? You don't buck that, at least, not easily.

As for the second reason? Well, when Jews arrived? The Dems were the first party to embrace them in the 1940s. That's really when we as a people began to assimilate. The war changed a lot of things for us here. In fact? American and Israeli Jews are very, very different in thoughts as a result of different experiences.

As for my support of Israel? Let's keep one thing in mind. Hitler sadly, murdered half the Jews of Europe, and displaced a majority of the rest. Many families were GONE. And not just the families, but the records. I researched my past recently. I was surprised they found my family's records all the way back to my great-great-great grandfather buried in Estonia. I would have thought the Germans plowed under the damn cemetary and destroyed the records of the Synogogue. (They did that, a lot). Israel is Judism's insurance policy. Given 5700 years of Jewish history? You'll forgive our feeling of we're done letting people kill us, or did you miss the bit in my sig?

Oh, and before you bring up the Rosenbergs or Pollard? The Rosenbergs deserved what they got. Yes, they were caught red-handed. And they still believed in the old Communist lie. So did Alger Hiss. Guilty as sin. I am an American? As such, I believe they betrayed us and gave the Soviets help with their bomb project. My sympathies do not reside with them. Pollard was an ass, who sold out the US for money. He should have been executed as a spy. Shame he was not.
 

DarthOne

☦️
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King Arts

Well-known member
Friend/enemy distinction matters.

Israel is our friend, the CCP, the Ayatollah, and Putin's Russia are not.

American-Israeli dual citizenship is a rather common thing for many Jews in the US, because modern Israel was founded AFTER the US was, and outside of the US, there was no real 'safe' places for Jews, unless they got their homeland back.

Stop expecting people to be suicidally stupid in ignoring friend/enemy distinction for ideological purity reasons.

There are always things that can be justified when done to an enemy, not a friend.
For the American empire many of our friends and enemies are arbitrary. You don’t like Russia as an example fine then Turkey. What makes them a friend that we have to oppose their enemies in the Middle East?

If Rashida Tlaib was president instead of Biden when this shitstorm started and she opposed Israel and used her authority to make the military put a no fly zone in the area to protect civilians. I would be equally as opposed to that as I am opposed to our aid of Israel. I would also be angry at American Jews if they protested like Palestinian Americans have been would you? Or would many make excuses?

The point is who is an “friend” in this case is arbitrary Rashida Tlaib is as American as the American Jews she is as American as you she was born here. If many Americans descend from or feel affectionate towards Palestine that is just as valid as supporting Israel. If you have strategic reasons for supporting Israel that is different than “affection because of similarities” that argument could work for any country.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
(Apologies, this is going to be long).

I got a question? Why? Why should we rend our clothes for your beef? Seriously. I gotta attack my own people to prove my anti-communist bonifides or the fact I am a Reagan Republican? Um...no.

Pal, got a news flash for you. My own family, every male with the exception of me (Epilepsy) has served since World War I. I was more than ready to do my part in the Fulda Gap making sure those commie bastards (and make no mistake, they are) stayed on their side of the IGB. Figures they toss in the towel before I got my turn.

My family has killed Nazis, Imperial Japanese, and Communists on the battlefield. And I am someone who has voted GOP since George HW Bush. So please, can it. And pick up a book?

Do I think my bretheren who vote knee-jerk Democrat are idiots? Yes. But demanding some sort of rending of clothes and contrition for some mythical involvement in the rise of communism?

Most of the Soviet leadership hated Jews. Anti-semitism under the Czars was brutal and vicious. The Soviets were not much better. Why did Jews even support Lenin? Simple. Because of the Czar. And yes, Lenin lied to them. No kidding, he lied to everyone. Ask the sailors of Krondstadt, well, you can't. Lenin slaughtered them after pushing them to rebel against him, and these sailors had been among the most loyal Bolsheviks.

As for Jews here? Why do we vote Democrat? Two reasons, a)tradition. Grandpa voted Democrat, Dad voted Democrat, Mom did, Aunt Ethel did? Get it? You don't buck that, at least, not easily.

As for the second reason? Well, when Jews arrived? The Dems were the first party to embrace them in the 1940s. That's really when we as a people began to assimilate. The war changed a lot of things for us here. In fact? American and Israeli Jews are very, very different in thoughts as a result of different experiences.

As for my support of Israel? Let's keep one thing in mind. Hitler sadly, murdered half the Jews of Europe, and displaced a majority of the rest. Many families were GONE. And not just the families, but the records. I researched my past recently. I was surprised they found my family's records all the way back to my great-great-great grandfather buried in Estonia. I would have thought the Germans plowed under the damn cemetary and destroyed the records of the Synogogue. (They did that, a lot). Israel is Judism's insurance policy. Given 5700 years of Jewish history? You'll forgive our feeling of we're done letting people kill us, or did you miss the bit in my sig?

Oh, and before you bring up the Rosenbergs or Pollard? The Rosenbergs deserved what they got. Yes, they were caught red-handed. And they still believed in the old Communist lie. So did Alger Hiss. Guilty as sin. I am an American? As such, I believe they betrayed us and gave the Soviets help with their bomb project. My sympathies do not reside with them. Pollard was an ass, who sold out the US for money. He should have been executed as a spy. Shame he was not.
This I respect. I don’t think Jewish individuals have to castigate themselves. They should be judged and condemned or praised as individuals.

Same to all other groups of Americans.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
For the American empire many of our friends and enemies are arbitrary. You don’t like Russia as an example fine then Turkey. What makes them a friend that we have to oppose their enemies in the Middle East?

If Rashida Tlaib was president instead of Biden when this shitstorm started and she opposed Israel and used her authority to make the military put a no fly zone in the area to protect civilians. I would be equally as opposed to that as I am opposed to our aid of Israel. I would also be angry at American Jews if they protested like Palestinian Americans have been would you? Or would many make excuses?

The point is who is an “friend” in this case is arbitrary Rashida Tlaib is as American as the American Jews she is as American as you she was born here. If many Americans descend from or feel affectionate towards Palestine that is just as valid as supporting Israel. If you have strategic reasons for supporting Israel that is different than “affection because of similarities” that argument could work for any country.
Cut the shit, we've seen you vouch for both Moscow and the jihadi's, you are just trying to stir the pot and try to 'use the enemies own principles against them' bullshit to break down support for anything those two groups oppose.

I hope you at least get paid for it.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Cut the shit, we've seen you vouch for both Moscow and the jihadi's, you are just trying to stir the pot and try to 'use the enemies own principles against them' bullshit to break down support for anything those two groups oppose.

I hope you at least get paid for it.
I support the Jihadis and the Russians is that what your neocon “brain” says?

Do you mind if I ask you a question?
If someone supported giving Red Cross aid to Palestine (I don’t not after I saw Hamas tear up water pipes) would you say that they are against Israel and pro Palestine?
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Notice he didn't deny being paid for his posting, folks.

Who wants to take bets on whether he's part of Russia's, the CCP's, or Iran's troll farms?
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Notice he didn't deny being paid for his posting, folks.

Who wants to take bets on whether he's part of Russia's, the CCP's, or Iran's troll farms?
Answer the question so I can debunk your dumb ass claims. But if you want an answer no I’m not paid by any government foreign or domestic. Are you?



Do you mind if I ask you a question?
If someone supported giving Red Cross aid to Palestine (I don't not after I saw Hamas tear up water pipes) would you say that they are against Israel and pro Palestine?
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Answer the question so I can debunk your dumb ass claims. But if you want an answer no I’m not paid by any government foreign or domestic. Are you?
You mean so you can engage in bad faith debating/arguing and keep making me try to play to your hypothetical, while actually ignore when I do debunk your bullshit by just posting another hypothetical to try to get the gotcha you want.

And no, I'm not getting paid for this, but do see plenty of your rhetoric coming from the foreign troll farms used to try to sow discord in the west using stupid and retarded arguments that still take more time to debunk than they do to make up.

So fuck off you little troll.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
You mean so you can engage in bad faith debating/arguing and keep making me try to play to your hypothetical, while actually ignore when I do debunk your bullshit by just posting another hypothetical to try to get the gotcha you want.

And no, I'm not getting paid for this, but do see plenty of your rhetoric coming from the foreign troll farms used to try to sow discord in the west using stupid and retarded arguments that still take more time to debunk than they do to make up.

So fuck off you little troll.
Ok well I’m gonna say it anyway because you are just a globalist shill who does not have logic or consistency.

And you won’t answer the question because you are a coward, who knows that your arguments are bad faith and you will switch and turn around.

Do you mind if I ask you a question?
If someone supported giving Red Cross aid to Palestine (I don't not after I saw Hamas tear up water pipes) would you say that they are against Israel and pro Palestine?

Answer the question coward.
 

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