Antifa, Just an Idea

[Bacle]

thats why I gave it 8-11 years before people run out of fucks.

But when they do well our latin american posters can tell you exactly how that turns out.

I think putting any sort of fixed, or even near estimate, numbers for when things will 'turn' is folly.

It makes people to fixated on certain dates/timeframes, to certain 'just wait X years and Y will happen' assumptions that frankly are not really reflected by current reality, and it relies far to much on the assumption of 'cycles of histroy' mindsets that assume they know how/when things will happen because of what happened to previous nations.

The future and how things will go is unknown, and we cannot rely on 'historical precedent'/'historical trends' to realistically inform our situation.

It's the same reason why comparing the current situation on the Right to Valley Forge, or the Battle of the Bulge, is folly; it is not accurate in the slightest, and completely bypasses the harsh realities of today. Being brave, having a stiff upper lip, or assuming 'cycles of time' mindsets blinds people to real, effective measures that work in today's world, instead of trying to assume the tactics/strategy of yesteryear still holds true.

This is a big part of why the Right has been losing the culture war so badly.

 

[DarthOne]

He's not wrong.

Violently clashing with Antifa like this just gives them and their media collaborators more ammo to twist and miscontextualize to hit the Right.

Maybe it feels good to physically fight back and put Antifa dipshits on the defensive for once, but doing so in a place where they have the gov and media backing like in Portland...counterproductive.

A better tactic would be to infil Antifa, get their dirty shit, and then take it to LEO's who can actually be trusted to a degree, like the US Marshals or the Texas Rangers, then use outside political pressure to embaress and humiliate Portland and the Oregon gov.

Yes and no.

On the one hand, going out to confront Antifa will give the media plenty of opportunity to try and twist events and so on.

On the other hand, just ignoring Antia and hoping they'll go away and leave you alone is not likely to work out. Remember, these people aren't exactly rational. They're complete ideologues who are determined to push their worldview on everyone. Simply ignoring them just emboldens them and they're going to go out of their way to attack people anyway.

History has shown plenty of times that these sorts of people aren't going to just 'go away and leave everyone alone'.

 

[Bacle]

Yes and no.

On the one hand, going out to confront Antifa will give the media plenty of opportunity to try and twist events and so on.

On the other hand, just ignoring Antia and hoping they'll go away and leave you alone is not likely to work out. Remember, these people aren't exactly rational. They're complete ideologues who are determined to push their worldview on everyone. Simply ignoring them just emboldens them and they're going to go out of their way to attack people anyway.

History has shown plenty of times that these sorts of people aren't going to just 'go away and leave everyone alone'.

It's not about getting them to 'go away', it's about fighting them effectively and smartly given current realities.

Trying to clash with them in Portland is pointless; they have cowed the gov and cops in the town, and fighting them on their own terf just gives them what they want.

Smartly fighting them involves actually doing shit that can damage their image and brand long term via optics, not trying to confront them in public.

They drove their van into the gathering to try to start shit and get footage of peope on the Right 'attacking' them.

Instead of chasing after them like the people in this case did, they should have stayed at their initial location, gotten the license plates #'s and photos of every Antifa member who showed, and banded together in place to protect each other without pursuing/actively chasing Antifa. Turn over the stuff to people like the US Marshals or similar group, and let them put Antifa in a bind.

Thinking that clashing with Antifa in public does anything but help their cause right now is folly.

 

[DarthOne]

what makes you think that will work?

Also, its easy to sit here and say 'they should do X' when you're sitting elsewhere, not in the heat of the moment. Never mind that these people are probably already frustrated and pissed off as all hell at how Antifa pretty much runs Portland.

 

[Bacle]

what makes you think that will work?

It might not, but it gives Antifa far less ammo to hand to their media allies.

Also, its easy to sit here and say 'they should do X' when you're sitting elsewhere, not in the heat of the moment. Never mind that these people are probably already frustrated and pissed off as all hell at how Antifa pretty much runs Portland.

The can be pissed and frustrated without giving chase to Antifa and helping their narrative.

Documenting the van crashing into the gathering, showing the damage/injuries it caused, and getting the evidence to out-of-state/city LEO's would have been much more likely to actually cause Antifa problems their media allies would have a harder time twisting.

Cathartic releasing of going after Antifa in the town they basically own may feel good for a short time, but it hands Antifa more help in their longer term goals.

 

[DarthOne]

Documenting the van crashing into the gathering, showing the damage/injuries it caused, and getting the evidence to out-of-state/city LEO's would have been much more likely to actually cause Antifa problems their media allies would have a harder time twisting.

I'm sorry, but I doubt it will be that easy to pull off.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the media is going to lie and twist stuff regardless. Never mind that they might just plain choose not to report on Antifa's misdeeds. You know, something they already do right now?

 

[Bacle]

I'm sorry, but I doubt it will be that easy to pull off.

Did I say it was 'easy', no; did I say it would be more effective in the long run, yes.

Antifa is banking on people not taking a few seconds to think rationally about how to actually beat them, and instead just 'seeing red' while their camera make it look like the Right starts the fights.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the media is going to lie and twist stuff regardless. Never mind that they might just plain choose not to report on Antifa's misdeeds. You know, something they already do right now?

That does not excuse making it easier for them to do so.

 

[Battlegrinder]

The problem with antifa is not that there isn't sufficient documentation of them being a band of domestic terrorists, the problem is that they hide out in jurisdictions that lack the political will to crush them. You can hand as much evidence as you want to the feds or other law enforcement agencies, but the authorities in Portland are the ones that have the power to actually do something, and they have absolutely refused to do so and have faced no consequences for doing so.

It's unfortunate, and a little bit shocking, that things have escalated to the point they're getting into shootouts with thier opponents now. I suppose escalation was inevitable but they're ben doing the fist fighting and throwing things crap for so long it felt like that was as far as things would go.

 

[DarthOne]

The problem with antifa is not that there isn't sufficient documentation of them being a band of domestic terrorists, the problem is that they hide out in jurisdictions that lack the political will to crush them. You can hand as much evidence as you want to the feds or other law enforcement agencies, but the authorities in Portland are the ones that have the power to actually do something, and they have absolutely refused to do so and have faced no consequences for doing so.

It's unfortunate, and a little bit shocking, that things have escalated to the point they're getting into shootouts with thier opponents now. I suppose escalation was inevitable but they're ben doing the fist fighting and throwing things crap for so long it felt like that was as far as things would go.

A lot like the last days of the Russian Empire, and 1920's-30's Spain, Italy and Germany. With the right and the left brawling in the streets.

 

[Captain X]

The reality is that if the police don't do anything, people will begin to act on their own. We've had over a year to see that if the police do anything, it's against people who are getting attacked and defend themselves, so it's not surprising to see people just taking matters into their own hands now. I also predict that if the police try to crack down on them defending themselves that they will begin attacking the police as well.

 

[PsihoKekec]

The reality is that if the police don't do anything, people will begin to act on their own.

It's not that they don't do anything, they are actively protecting black shirts, making people can't act on their own.

 

[Cherico]

The reality is that if the police don't do anything, people will begin to act on their own. We've had over a year to see that if the police do anything, it's against people who are getting attacked and defend themselves, so it's not surprising to see people just taking matters into their own hands now. I also predict that if the police try to crack down on them defending themselves that they will begin attacking the police as well.

This has happened numerous times in the past, you reap what you sow and a government that does not protect its people is in time replaced by one that does this is either done peacefully or violently but it will happen.

 

[StormEagle]

The reality is that if the police don't do anything, people will begin to act on their own. We've had over a year to see that if the police do anything, it's against people who are getting attacked and defend themselves, so it's not surprising to see people just taking matters into their own hands now. I also predict that if the police try to crack down on them defending themselves that they will begin attacking the police as well.

The police in this country have pretty much succeeded in alienating portions of every side of the political aisle.

I used to be a dyed in the wool “Back the Blue Line” no matter what kind of guy. I have a blue lives matter shirt, and I’ve always defended the police when shit like this crops up.

Because I used to work at a gas station, I’ve had exposure to cops off the clock. I’ve shot the shit with them, talked with my local beat cops as they got their morning coffee. I understand that it’s a hard, often thankless job they have, and ain’t nothing going to convince me that the guys I talked to were bad cops.

But I find myself…disappointed with a lot of the pds throughout the nation. Maybe it’s because I thought most guys on the force were like Officer Rodriguez. Upstanding members of the community, trying their best to do a shit job.

But then I see them taking the baton or pepper spray to guys flying the blue lives matter flag. Guys like me. Guys that supported them. And I question if police like that, who either can’t recognize friend from foe or are so gutless that they’ll follow the orders of their dipshit lib mayors without a second thought, are even worth supporting?

I don’t wear my blue lives matter shirt anymore.

And that makes me very sad.

 

[Sobek]

The cops have stopped serving the community and just follow orders. That is what is happening. The will simply follow orders no matter what, and with that they have lost their last ally. The entire reason people "back the blue" was because they are supposed to keep the order and have society work. How can you back them when they will let Antifa and BLM burn shit down and stand by, but attack people with Thin Blue Line shirts when ordered? How do you justify it?

And make no mistake, this is by design. They want the cops disconnected from their precincts and faceless. It becomes much easier to tell them to arrest people for breaking mask mandates and other bullshit charges when they have no connection to the people getting arrested. That is why there is so much anti-cop propaganda while at the same time the police is given so much more power and duties. They want a enforcer class that will have no trouble beating you, and dehumanizing them is part of that.

 

[Zachowon]

It depends on the fucking cops.

 

[Rocinante]

The police in this country have pretty much succeeded in alienating portions of every side of the political aisle.

I used to be a died in the wool “Back the Blue Line” no matter what kind of guy. I have a blue lives matter shirt, and I’ve always defended the police when shit like this crops up.

Because I used to work at a gas station, I’ve had exposure to cops off the clock. I’ve shot the shit with them, talked with my local beat cops as they got their morning coffee. I understand that it’s a hard, often thankless job they have, and ain’t nothing going to convince me that the guys I talked to were bad cops.

But I find myself…disappointed with a lot of the pds throughout the nation. Maybe it’s because I thought most guys on the force were like Officer Rodriguez. Upstanding members of the community, trying their best to do a shit job.

But then I see them taking the baton or pepper spray to guys flying the blue lives matter flag. Guys like me. Guys that supported them. And I question if police like that, who either can’t recognize friend from foe or are so gutless that they’ll follow the orders of their dipshit lib mayors without a second thought, are even worth supporting?

I don’t wear my blue lives matter shirt anymore.

And that makes me very sad.

I was full on "fuck the police" as a youngster. When I was 16, I had a gun pulled on me, and my face violently slammed in the hood of a car. Because I had an open container of alcohol In a car, that wasn't even mine. The driver passed it to me when he was getting pulled over. The cop didn't like me arguing that it wasn't mine. This incident fueled years of hatred.

Then fast forward a few years, I spent 4-6 days a week in a martial arts program that was loaded with officers, then I worked an internship at a police station. I became very pro cop at that point, and was for years. I was around them all the time and feel that a majority of them are just regular people.

Events since 2020 have changed my mind. While I support many individuals who are good people, the police, as a whole organization, have some problems. Most interactions should be taken with caution, and you should always recognize that there are plenty of bad cops who never face accountability. Never assume they'll be on your side. They'll almost always be on the side of whoever's giving them orders.

 

[Terthna]

The problem with antifa is not that there isn't sufficient documentation of them being a band of domestic terrorists, the problem is that they hide out in jurisdictions that lack the political will to crush them. You can hand as much evidence as you want to the feds or other law enforcement agencies, but the authorities in Portland are the ones that have the power to actually do something, and they have absolutely refused to do so and have faced no consequences for doing so.

It's unfortunate, and a little bit shocking, that things have escalated to the point they're getting into shootouts with thier opponents now. I suppose escalation was inevitable but they're ben doing the fist fighting and throwing things crap for so long it felt like that was as far as things would go.

The smart thing to do would be to recognize Antifa's territory, and leave. Let Antifa destroy their own power bases utterly.

It depends on the fucking cops.

Yes; but the cops in places like Portland, by and large, aren't confronting Antifa.

 

[Rocinante]

The smart thing to do would be to recognize Antifa's territory, and leave. Let Antifa destroy their own power bases utterly.

Or have peaceful prayer meetings and shit like that. Let them come in and teargas you and beat you up.

Document and spread it.

This latest attack on that church meeting was real bad PR for them.

It would take a lot of self control to just let a crowd come in and beat up your group, but damn, a few more of those church events like that last one will not be good for their image.

 

[Bacle]

Or have peaceful prayer meetings and shit like that. Let them come in and teargas you and beat you up.

Document and spread it.

This latest attack on that church meeting was real bad PR for them.

It would take a lot of self control to just let a crowd come in and beat up your group, but damn, a few more of those church events like that last one will not be good for their image.

This was a church event, and they rammed a van into it to begin their 'counter protest'.

Vehicular attacks like the one that happened a few days ago in Portland are upping the game, and Tim Pool has said he's seen comments about Antifa having their own roof-top snipers/overwatch now that they are bringing actual guns to the confrontations.

 

[Battlegrinder]

The reality is that if the police don't do anything, people will begin to act on their own. We've had over a year to see that if the police do anything, it's against people who are getting attacked and defend themselves, so it's not surprising to see people just taking matters into their own hands now. I also predict that if the police try to crack down on them defending themselves that they will begin attacking the police as well.

To my knowledge, this is largely not people defending themselves, in the sense of local residents getting tired of antifa's crap and deciding to deal with it themselves. Most of the people throwing down with them are out of towners who
A: just want to go out and fight snowflakes,
B: want to show antifa that there will always be people that oppose them even if they've cowed the locals, or most commonly,
C: some combination of both of the above.

Antifa has the same dynamic going on, which just feeds the chaos, though the main culprit for that cycle is the local law enforcement that refuses to just throw these people behind bars and keep them there until their trial, coupled with local DAS that refuse to press charges and put them in prison.

The smart thing to do would be to recognize Antifa's territory, and leave. Let Antifa destroy their own power bases utterly.

That doesn't work, because antifa doesn't really derive any actual power from operating in Portland, they're not extracting any money or resources from the local economy. There's a reason groups that do parasitize off legitimate businesses, such as the Mob, don't run around like antifa indiscriminately smashing stuff, they down out violence in a much more calculated fashion.

Though there's no doubt a few entrepreneurial con arts running fake protection rackets pretending to be antifa, to my knowledge most of the real ones operate of thier own resources, thier parents resources, or welfare.

This was a church event, and they rammed a van into it to begin their 'counter protest'.

Vehicular attacks like the one that happened a few days ago in Portland are upping the game, and Tim Pool has said he's seen comments about Antifa having their own roof-top snipers/overwatch now that they are bringing actual guns to the confrontations.

There's always been guns present or carried, we had a thread about a year ago about a hit and a where some antifa guys opened fire on the hit and run car, and of course that shooting last year. What's new, and very dangerous, is actual exchanges of fire between groups.