Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[WolfBear]

‘They were furious’: the Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukrain…

archived 12 May 2022 19:24:49 UTC

archive.ph

 

[Bacle]

 

[Agent23]

Okay, a few things:

First, yes @Agent23, it's fine that you've blocked people, and fine that you've blocked people through scripting. But posting that you are laughing at them while you can't hear them is considered baiting. So from now on, stop attacking posters you have on ignore/are blocked in some other way (this applies to all places on the site, not just here. If someone is baiting you, please just report them).

Second, other people, stop provoking Agent and also all other sniping. It's bait, we have a rule against baiting, and it applies to everyone, everywhere.

I have multiple devices, and TBH I haven't bothered to proliferate this script everywhere, but the so-called 'sniping' doesn't really affect me, apart from laughter.
Thanks for the concern, don't worry on my account, since they are basically trying to snipe an orca with a water pistol, I find it hilarious, but since they are so obsessed with sniping I found it courtious to give them at least one or two volleys of massed artillery in return, I mean I don't want them thinking I am dead or a bot. 😂

For both of the above two statements, if you have a point and aren't insulting the other side, that's fine. But we've decided to stomp down on the snide comments, especially in this thread.

Define 'snide'.
Is posting copium memes snide?
I mean, seriously, this is a humor/derail thread, it says shitposting all over it.

Can I post Russia-chan, Buhanochka-chan and other Anime girls as reactions?
What about sarcasm?

Third, there are people praising the deaths of people/wanting the deaths of soldiers. We've let this run long enough, because we were treating both sides equally, but it ends now. This applies on all Ukraine war threads (this part will be reposted on those).

I am rooting for Russia, and I am rooting for Ukraine to lose.
If there is a big battle and Ukraine loses badly, would posting casualty figures be affected by this?

Also, since we are so obsessed with blocking "racial" slurs like "ukrowhatever" "uki" (which isn't one, but tell that to @bullethead ) I demand that vatnik, which is a racial slur against ethnic Russians, be added to the list too.

In particular, here is research that shows that ватник is an ethnic slur.

The paper is called:
"ETHNIC NICKNAMES OF RUSSIANS
IN THE UKRAINIAN AND RUSSIAN BLOGOSPHERE"
Also, to the attention of Bullethead, notice that there is no Uki anywhere in the document.

Abstract for the article:

Abstract: The article examines the problems of the functioning of ethnic nicknames in
the "language of enmity" by the example of the escalation of political tension in relations between
Russia and Ukraine in the period 2014-2017. The aim of the study is to create
an onomasiological portrait of Russians in the modern Ukrainian language picture of the world.
The research material was ethnic nicknames of Russians selected on the web
forums of the cities of Belgorod (Russia) and Kharkiv (Ukraine). The following research methods
are used:
conceptual,
definitional,
pragmalinguistic,
contextual, etymological, semantic and sociolinguistic analysis.
Russian Russian ethnic nicknames The most productive ways of formation of modern
ethnic nicknames of Russians, their characteristic features, as well as linguistically
relevant cognitives, which allowed to create an image of modern Russian, which has developed
in the linguistic picture of the world of the average Internet user of the Ukrainian and
Russian blogosphere, have been identified in the course of the study. The results of the work can be applied in further
research in the field of sociolinguistics, ethnoconflictology, history and political science.

Keywords:
"language
enmity";
ethnic
nickname;
ethnopholism;
onomasiological portrait; ethnocognitives; linguistic picture of the world; blogosphere

EDIT: @Abhorsen furthermore, I went through a bunch of blocked content and found that the term vatnik, and gibberish targeted at me in threads that have nothing to do with the Russia-Ukraine situation, I view that as derailment and I request that the same actions as taken by @Rusty Shackleford towards myself and @Zachowon be undertaken against the relevant poster in the relevant as well, and that something be done about the "spillover".

 

[Carrot of Truth]

This move here still has me wondering wtf was going through that commanders head.

 

[Agent23]

This move here still has me wondering wtf was going through that commanders head.

1.Since the zone is considered of little value and dangerous I am pretty sure that they thought it will be an easy way in.
2. Radioactive materials could have been used for a dirty bomb, so securing them could have been important.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Noooooo! You can't do close air support because of those SAMs!


Ha! ha! A-10 go BRRRRT!

How would the slow A-10 perform against a foe with plentiful modern anti-air?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

But plane, Ukrainians are losing the artillery war because all we see from them is carefully edited footage and while we know for a fact the ruskies mist be devastating them from the footage we have seen!
Obviously anything the Ukrainians do is propaganda.....

I wonder what is gonna happen when the Russians lose and what the Vatniks do?

Defense policy asia did a good vid about that.



Meanwhile the Russians continue to make gains in donbass because they can lob far more artillery than the Ukrainians can. The seizure of popasnya was far more significant than the destruction of a single pontoon bridge.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

I'm sorry.
How come they have not made Ukrainian Air space have no Ukrainian planes hmm?
S-400s are overhyped and untested against a true air force.

You bombed serbia for 70 days and serbia still had aircraft and SAMs enough to shoot down a stealth fighter. Gaining complete air dominance against goat herders and rattletrap arab militaries is one thing. Gaining it against a technological power with access to good SAM coverage is another.

Spectres are only useful when the enemy has no way to shoot back.

 

[Zachowon]

How would the slow A-10 perform against a foe with plentiful modern anti-air?

Because the A10 is good when used right as a low and slow pop up attack and vanish under the cover of trees or hills.
That is how it is supposed to he used.

add in the amount of SEAD that would be used in the area and after seeing that SAM production has stoppwd in Russia, a matter od tome before they would run out.

quick dictionary real quick.
SEAD: Supression of Enemy Air Defense.
DEAD: Destruction of Enemy Air Defense

You bombed serbia for 70 days and serbia still had aircraft and SAMs enough to shoot down a stealth fighter. Gaining complete air dominance against goat herders and rattletrap arab militaries is one thing. Gaining it against a technological power with access to good SAM coverage is another.

Spectres are only useful when the enemy has no way to shoot back.

We didn't do DEAD.
We did SEAD.
People get the two confused.
The shooting down of the F117 was because of complacency. They didn't bother trying to do diffrent thinking they were invincible by flying the same path.
I mean can you explain how aircraft and missles seem to easily go and land in Russia without being shot down every time?
With such good AD they should be impenetrable right?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Because the A10 is good when used right as a low and slow pop up attack and vanish under the cover of trees or hills.
That is how it is supposed to he used.

add in the amount of SEAD that would be used in the area and after seeing that SAM production has stoppwd in Russia, a matter od tome before they would run out.

You assume 2 things

1) Russia will run out before you do.
2) you'll be able to establish aerial dominance and completely shut down Russia's ability to intercept the a-10 with its own fighters
3) The enemy wont have lots of decent manpads of its own.

The shooting down of the F117 was because of complacency. They didn't bother trying to do diffrent thinking they were invincible by flying the same path.
I mean can you explain how aircraft and missiles seem to easily go and land in Russia without being shot down every time?
With such good AD they should be impenetrable right?

No air defense is impenetrable.

But quick insertions by a few helicopters flying at treetop level is not the same thing as a mass aerial assault. Note..how many Ukrainian fighters have managed to successfully launch attacks into Russia?

And how many missiles have been shot down by Russian SAM defenses? You dont hear about that of course in the carefully curated twitter-sphere.

 

[Marduk]

You assume 2 things

1) Russia will run out before you do.
2) you'll be able to establish aerial dominance and completely shut down Russia's ability to intercept the a-10 with its own fighters
3) The enemy wont have lots of decent manpads of its own.

Both sides operate Su-25, with its very similar role and parameters, despite all of that.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Both sides operate Su-25, with its very similar role and parameters, despite all of that.

Yes, and the frogfoot is a fucklot faster than the a-10, with better acceleration and rugged as hell. And it has still taken a beating. You dont see mass frogfoot attacks, but pinpoint strikes.

 

[Marduk]

Yes, and the frogfoot is a fucklot faster than the a-10, with better acceleration and rugged as hell. And it has still taken a beating.

>fucklot faster
Bullshit. Their max speed in clean configuration differd by 250kph, which is very little difference for MANPADS and any other modern AA meant to deal with fast movers.
The difference in combat configuration is by all chance smaller.Nevermind that Su-25's probably don't zip around at max speed while using non-precision weapons like they usually do in Ukraine.
Their T/W ratio is not that different and mostly variable with how heavily loaded they are.
A-10 is at least as rugged.

You dont see mass frogfoot attacks, but pinpoint strikes.

And A-10 can do that too just as well, matter of tactics.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

>fucklot faster
Bullshit. Their max speed in clean configuration differd by 250kph, which is very little difference for MANPADS and any other modern AA meant to deal with fast movers.
The difference in combat configuration is by all chance smaller.Nevermind that Su-25's probably don't zip around at max speed while using non-precision weapons like they usually do in Ukraine.
Their T/W ratio is not that different and mostly variable with how heavily loaded they are.

It means they can get in and out faster

 

[Marduk]

It means they can get in and out faster

Slightly faster. Nothing near as fast as planes like Su-34 and Su-27, and yet those get shot down by MANPADS too, to demonstrate how little difference there is in effect.

 

[Bacle]

This move here still has me wondering wtf was going through that commanders head.

Jesus Christ...the put the fucking rad sands in sandbags for checkpoints and such...those fools might have just undone a lot of work and sacrifice if any meaningful amount of that sand left the Exclusion Zone in said sandbags.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Slightly faster. Nothing near as fast as planes like Su-34 and Su-27, and yet those get shot down by MANPADS too, to demonstrate how little difference there is in effect.

The point is that the A-10 isnt going to be used as this supreme tankbuster because the battlefield will be saturated with anti-air and enemy fighters. They will be very vulnerable

 

[Marduk]

The poiunt is that the A-10 isnt going to be used as this supreme tankbuster because the battlefield will be saturated with anti-air and enemy fighters. They will be very vulnerable

Qhich is a fairly rare kind of battlefield, because currently one of the premier candidates to create it is failing at it for months.

Jesus Christ...the put the fucking rad sands in sandbags for checkpoints and such...those fools might have just undone a lot of work and sacrifice if any meaningful amount of that sand left the Exclusion Zone in said sandbags.

Unlikely they would use valuable truck space to take sandbags rather than loot.

 

[Bacle]

Unlikely they would use valuable truck space to take sandbags rather than loot.

Well, cannot argue that logic.

I'm just continually amazed/horrified at the level of disregard for the dangers in that area displayed by the current Russia military.

 

[Zachowon]

You assume 2 things

1) Russia will run out before you do.
2) you'll be able to establish aerial dominance and completely shut down Russia's ability to intercept the a-10 with its own fighters
3) The enemy wont have lots of decent manpads of its own.




No air defense is impenetrable.

But quick insertions by a few helicopters flying at treetop level is not the same thing as a mass aerial assault. Note..how many Ukrainian fighters have managed to successfully launch attacks into Russia?

And how many missiles have been shot down by Russian SAM defenses? You dont hear about that of course in the carefully curated twitter-sphere.

I mean, the airspace here is not highly contested and the Russians are damn near incapable of SEAD. Though according to the Ukrainians. SEAD is very effective so...woth both sides using the same sort of equipment....we now know how effective SEAD would be against the US.

A10s also can fly tree top level, pop up. Launch Mavericks and then go back down for a pass.

The SU 25 is only slightly faster and is still being used by both sides without negating it fully.

If Russian SAM was as good as you claim, they would be dominating yhe air space and face no issues