Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
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Where are you getting the idea that we would need to occupy Ukraine like we did those nations?
The only US people in Ukraine are basically logistics guys making sure our weapons aid doesn't end up on the black market.
Ukraine hasn't even reopened their nation to foreign fighters; they need gear and training for the people they have, not foreign fighters. Ukraine had heavy industry for most of the 20th century, including a lot of the USSRs most important factories (Kharkiv Tank Plant and the shipyards in the Azov Sea and on Crimea, for instance), so they have the people, they just need the gear and know-how.
Ukraine is a fundamentally different sort of conflict that the foreign adventures/revenge expeditions in A-stan and Iraq were.
I'm honestly laughing my own ass off at this. Death by shrapnel-inflicted anal trauma.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Russian volunteer Murz on why Russia is not ready to defend Ukrainian winter offensive • WarTranslated
Below is a translation of a long blog post by the Russian volunteer Murz whom we’ve covered extensively during the past several months. In this post, Murz, who has been previously critical of the way the Russian Army is conducting the “special operation”, goes over the potential of a Ukrainian...wartranslated.com
I'd caution against a truly massive winter offensive on Ukraine's part, but if they wanted to make some gains I just don't see how the Russian Army can stop them. Their troops are demoralised, cold, tired, badly equipped, and badly led. A battle hardened Ukrainian force would fall on them like a hammer smashing glass.
I sort of already know the answer, but I still have to ask, why is Putin even bothering by this point?
At this point spending all of these resources and losing the war would be worse then not starting the war in the first place, also russians fight until they cant fight any more, and we have not hit that point.
Good news if the Ukrainians win this one? That's the end of Russia as a great power for a couple decades, and its best outcome becomes chinese vassal state.
Because it's all sunk cost for him personally at this point: continuing the war at this point only inflicts suffering on others whom he has no loyalty towards, but stopping the war would cost him politically.
I think what Putin actually means here is that he's willing to sacrifice 99.9% of the Russian people in the interest of his own aggrandizement.
Half of Russia's population looks to support the war; the other half want Putin, most military leaders right down to the squad level, politicians backing this quagmire, and propagandists strung up from the nearest street lights.
The question is, how do we help the latter half get the job done.
we don't.
Russia isn't nearly close to its breaking point, and messing about with their internals can backfire hard. I can respect wanting to remove Russia from the board as a great power, but america's record on both nation building and regieme change is fucking terrible and we would likely just make things even worse then they are now.
Yeah -- except for Germany (which had massive help from other Allied powers, like the UK), Japan, and South Korea (the only two success stories), every attempt by the US to rebuild other nations in their image/according to their values has failed in the most spectacular fashion.
If there is covert assistance to these elements to help Russia basically collapse, when Russia does collapse, they'll have to work shit out on their own again.
America trying to stick its dick into that frozen hellhole will just result in a frostbitten dick.
And considering Russias high STD rate most likely aids as well.
Meh. They did try in Soviet Union as much as they could, how much did it help, hard to say, but there was no mythical backfiring either.
I'd have similar expectations here.
On the other hand, yeah, wouldn't expect a similar story to Japan or Germany. One pattern that emerges is that USA has great successes with getting low corruption high trust societies to partake in its international economic model.
But wait a minute, that doesn't sound much like Russia...
Russia sounds more like, say, Arab countries, Afghanistan, Latin America. USA has spent a whole lot of effort trying to repeat these success stories there since WW2, and the effects are very disappointing.
Imagine the economic effects if USA could turn stupid neighboring Mexico into another Germany, or at least Italy even...
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Few possible explanations:
1.He is fucking KGB - so it is part of his plan to take over world,or at least Ukraine.No,i am not joking,in case of KGB we must be paranoid.
2.He want destroy his state for some reason - maybe he is China plant?
3.He knew,that after lost war somebody kill him - so he is trying to win no matter what it cost others.
4.It is part of global conspiracy to made NWO ,althought dunno how loosing war on Ukraine could help it.
I am sure,that there is more logical explanations to your question.
Look at all his other plans, like Belarus and in the Caucasus, and you see the idea. Putin wants his legacy of being the next "tsar" who made Russia a great power again in recovery from the fall of Soviet Union, or at very least put it on the way there for his successor.
Being a loser who couldn't take Ukraine is not part of that plan obviously. So if there is even a 5% chance he can salvage the situation by doubling down and making it a war of endurance, he will take it, even at the risk of making the failure a bigger disaster than it would be if he backed down.
This. Unfortunately, it's not our business, and an external nation with a history of enmity messing with their internal politics is pretty much the one thing that would reunite Russia behind Putin's crowd.
Look at Ukraine itself as an example -- pre-invasion Ukraine was bitterly divided between pro-West and pro-Russian factions to the point of bordering on civil war, but when Russia actually tried to push things over by direct intervention, the pro-Russian faction pretty much disappeared overnight with only a handful of the most hardcore pro-Russian Ukrainians becoming traitors and collaborating with the invaders.
Never ever underestimate KGB.They are evil psychos,but not idiots.They always could have hidden plan to take over.
Buba
A total creep
Is "Pain Makes Stronger!" in the Ministry of Defence text about forcible conversion of deposits into loans real?
I've been convinced since March that Putin has done more than any other person for Ukrainian ethnogenesis (that's nation building, peasants
), supplying it with its "blood and fire" founding mythos.
It is a truth long established that it is me and bro against coz, and me and bro and coz against everybody else.
I've been convinced since March that Putin has done more than any other person for Ukrainian ethnogenesis (that's nation building, peasants
), supplying it with its "blood and fire" founding mythos.Naturally, it is a pain for those losing the deposits, and it is making Putin stronger. On second thought he has decided that he won't be asking them if they want to give up everything to support the war, just assumed they will and went along with it, why bother people by asking when they are so patriotic.
Buy war bonds? In Soviet Russia, war bonds will buy themselves with your money!
Still, not sure if it's not just a rumor, not much talk about it.
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