Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Zachowon]

If only they were also so isolationist when it comes to migrants arriving on Italy's shores, there would be a lot more money and refugee residences left for Ukraine, but no, that problem gets to be exported to the rest of Europe.

Don't you see Marduk, it's the EU causing all these refugee problems in Italy

 

[Wargamer08]

sigh Knowing the US DoD, they've probably got stockpiles everywhere that they've literally lost/forgotten about in their bureaucracy.

Right, those vehicles exist but they are not ready. They need mechanical work, they need everything from the engine to the gun looked at and checked. They need an allotment of spares tracked down and assigned. This is the kind of fiddly detail work that takes time.

Large amounts of the Leo1a5s that were shipped to Ukraine didn't have this done. This led to them being worse than useless as they ate up Ukrainian mechanics that had to check over the tanks and cannibalize some of the tanks to provide spares for others.

 

[LordsFire]

Right, those vehicles exist but they are not ready. They need mechanical work, they need everything from the engine to the gun looked at and checked. They need an allotment of spares tracked down and assigned. This is the kind of fiddly detail work that takes time.

Large amounts of the Leo1a5s that were shipped to Ukraine didn't have this done. This led to them being worse than useless as they ate up Ukrainian mechanics that had to check over the tanks and cannibalize some of the tanks to provide spares for others.

Sure.

Odds of them being properly stored, and not looted for vodka money, are much higher than has been the case for most Russian stored war machines.

What's your point with this?

 

[TheRejectionist]

If only they were also so isolationist when it comes to migrants arriving on Italy's shores, there would be a lot more money and refugee residences left for Ukraine, but no, that problem gets to be exported to the rest of Europe.

The Ukraine doesn't deserve our money, never did and never will. Nor our equipment for that matter. The Ukraine refugees get the same treatment as others : if they fuckup they get a pass unfortunately, just like other misbehaving and ill-mannered troglodytes.

So if they made it to Italy yall would replace the surrendering France meme?

France didn't last a year before changing sides with Petain and Laval , Italy changed sides after 3 years of war, fought a civil war even when outnumbered and hanged our baldie. I don't think we will get that meme ever.

 

[Zachowon]

I hate my life sometimes.

So much could be answered but yet, so much can never be known

 

[Prince Ire]

Yeah. The stocks openly known to the public.

If you had legitimate knowledge of secret artillery stocks, you wouldn't be posting about it on a public forum.

 

[Zachowon]

The Ukraine doesn't deserve our money, never did and never will. Nor our equipment for that matter. The Ukraine refugees get the same treatment as others : if they fuckup they get a pass unfortunately, just like other misbehaving and ill-mannered troglodytes.

France didn't last a year before changing sides with Petain and Laval , Italy changed sides after 3 years of war, fought a civil war even when outnumbered and hanged our baldie. I don't think we will get that meme ever.

But your saying your country would gladly give up if Russia came knocking.
Is thay not the same as what France did?

And those first 3 years you were supported by Hitler.
France was still fighting in exile so that would still count.

 

[Zachowon]

If you had legitimate knowledge of secret artillery stocks, you wouldn't be posting about it on a public forum.

Honestly? I don't know if we do or not.
I am making an assessment based off the fact that we would have had a lot more then what we have now, due to situations like the cold war going hot

 

[Marduk]

The Ukraine doesn't deserve our money, never did and never will. Nor our equipment for that matter. The Ukraine refugees get the same treatment as others : if they fuckup they get a pass unfortunately, just like other misbehaving and ill-mannered troglodytes.

It's not about if they deserve it or not, it's that it is in NATO and EU interest that they get it.
Whether they deserve it or not is internationally irrelevant personal sympathies.
Does Italy deserve any assistance from EU and NATO with migrant problems?

But your saying your country would gladly give up if Russia came knocking.
Is thay not the same as what France did?

Well Italy is a bit well outside of Russian ambitions so may be hoping to make a buck cooperating in selling off what is in these ambitions.

 

[Marduk]

Right, those vehicles exist but they are not ready. They need mechanical work, they need everything from the engine to the gun looked at and checked. They need an allotment of spares tracked down and assigned. This is the kind of fiddly detail work that takes time.

Large amounts of the Leo1a5s that were shipped to Ukraine didn't have this done. This led to them being worse than useless as they ate up Ukrainian mechanics that had to check over the tanks and cannibalize some of the tanks to provide spares for others.

It's work very variable in tame based on level of urgency and resources assigned. It can take a year at the pace of peacetime bureaucracy, or it can take a month if the people at the top decide it has to be done NOW.

 

[TheRejectionist]

But your saying your country would gladly give up if Russia came knocking.

Start to speak properly for starters. Russia never came knocking except during Napoleon. Even during the CW our commies weren't collaborative with Moscow to begin it. I would be glad we did another 1943. Not expecting that though.

Is thay not the same as what France did?

What roll over and flee to Africa with tails between their legs ?

And those first 3 years you were supported by Hitler.

We didn't change immediately sides, plus, it is rich considering that if memory serves me right, your country did continue to do business with the Axis, even after the declarations of war. We paid the price gladly and dearly. Not to mention, you guys were more than happy in recruiting "former" Nazis as much as the USSR did. Just as a "former" Fascists.

France was still fighting in exile so that would still count.

Fighting over what? Deserts and afrotropical jungle than counted less than Belgium's Congo Uranium mines?

It's not about if they deserve it or not, it's that it is in NATO and EU interest that they get it.

No, Italy's interest aren't NATO interest and NATO's interests haven't aligned for a decade by now, but Washington everchanging lackeys in Rome still go ahead. Matter of fact Berlusconi political demise was a joint EU-US scheme because of various disagreements he had over foreign policy. No Berlusconi, more migrants than ever.

Whether they deserve it or not is internationally irrelevant personal sympathies.

No, the Ukraine net contribution to Italy commercially and other has been zero except for its arms industry, which doesn't even cover 1% of jobs in Italy and they have flooded the market with barely edible wheat and grain. Russia on the other hand contributed to a lot of our economy before 2022 and where a better alternative than US gas.

Does Italy deserve any assistance from EU and NATO with migrant problems?

EU has done nothing but exacerbate the problem created by interventions in Libya and Syria, which were NATO-led just as much as the Ukraine.
The Germans and the French political class wants us to be their migrant camp.
We deserve it to handle ourselves , but our politicians didn't let us, because they take orders from Paris, DC and Berlin, we got sabotaged and criticized by other EU members and they protected their own migrant hippies . So the EU and NATO can collapse for all I care.

The Ukraine is just the umpteenth problem with refugees we have to deal with.

So I am happy at least for now our boys won't have to die in the marshes of the backwater of the Ukraine.

Probably won't last much, but so far our Defence Minister did something sensible. French and Polish soldiers want to volunteer? They can be my guest. Don't expect us to die or to sacrifice more than what we already have.

Well Italy is a bit well outside of Russian ambitions so may be hoping to make a buck cooperating in selling off what is in these ambitions.

That was the status quo, which many in Italy, especially Eurosceptics conservatives anti-mainstream, want to return to. And I will be glad if it will.

 

[Marduk]

No, Italy's interest aren't NATO interest and NATO's interests haven't aligned for a decade by now, but Washington everchanging lackeys in Rome still go ahead. Matter of fact Berlusconi political demise was a joint EU-US scheme because of various disagreements he had over foreign policy. No Berlusconi, more migrants than ever.

Great, Italian corruptocrats have arranged a demographic dead hand weapon if it's how you put it, people like that have to go.

No, the Ukraine net contribution to Italy commercially and other has been zero except for its arms industry, which doesn't even cover 1% of jobs in Italy and they have flooded the market with barely edible wheat and grain. Russia on the other hand contributed to a lot of our economy before 2022 and where a better alternative than US gas.

Ukraine's existence as a sovereign, not Russian dominated state is of massive importance to all of its western/southwestern neighbors. I know Italy is not one of them, but if you insist so much about ignoring those, why are you still in NATO and EU.

On the other hand, if you were not in NATO and EU, and tried to be buddies with Russia "over the heads" of such neighbors, such commercial relations would likely have their transfer routes blocked by those nations whose interests you so explicitly want to ignore, so you may be getting even less Russian gas than otherwise in such a scenario.

EU has done nothing but exacerbate the problem created by interventions in Libya and Syria, which were NATO-led just as much as the Ukraine.

The problem is in Brussels, Berlin and Paris, not in Libya, Syria, or even the places where most of the migrants originally come from now.

The Germans and the French political class wants us to be their migrant camp.

They have plenty of migrant camps of their own, even in their own major cities, do not ascribe to malicious competence what can be explained by leftist retardation.

We deserve it to handle ourselves , but our politicians didn't let us, because they take orders from Paris, DC and Berlin, we got sabotaged and criticized by other EU members and they protected their own migrant hippies . So the EU and NATO can collapse for all I care.

Yeah, sure, better blame others than realize that the whole Europe has a massive leftist infestation, and you're not excepted at all.

That was the status quo, which many in Italy, especially Eurosceptics conservatives anti-mainstream, want to return to. And I will be glad if it will.

Well the status quo changed, even Germans had to terminate their shady deals with Russia, and if things got so tense that even the big honchos of the EU had to take a step back, who are you to protest.
And when shady deals get terminated, so do pipelines, whichever side insisted on making that point.
So much for your shady deals.
Appreciate the long distance questionable trade deals that organizations like the EU, WTO and other globalist institutions enable while you can, because they would be much less likely to exist in the first place without the "international order" that the countries you shit on established for the sake of making trade easier.
The alternative is not pie in the sky and rivers of milk, it is what was before - more medieval style trade with most long routes being risky or taxed badly by all countries on the way. So be careful what you wish for, you may vote it in, and it may turn out to be twice as bad as the thing you are getting rid of.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Great, Italian corruptocrats have arranged a demographic dead hand weapon if it's how you put it, people like that have to go.

Great to see you you admit that you want to replace other Europeans when it suits your masters... And fat chance of that happening, we are the "people" that make children and value tradition more than liberal safety concerns for the international order.

Ukraine's existence as a sovereign, not Russian dominated state is of massive importance to all of its

The Ukraine is everything but a sovereign nation is not, never was and never will be.
A German propaganda that went too far.
The Ukraine non-existence hasn't affected positively or negatively any of its neighbors prior to WW1 so it is not going to change.

western/southwestern neighbors. I know Italy is not one of them, but if you insist so much about ignoring those, why are you still in NATO and EU.

You? I didn't have a goddamn choice Marduk. We never voted to join NATO or the EU, both are decisions that weren't made by the average Italian.

On the other hand, if you were not in NATO and EU, and tried to be buddies with Russia "over the heads" of such neighbors, such commercial relations would likely have their transfer routes blocked by those nations whose interests you so explicitly want to ignore, so you may be getting even less Russian gas than otherwise in such a scenario.

Fat chance of that happening.

Well the status quo changed, even Germans had to terminate their shady deals with Russia, and if things got so tense that even the big honchos of the EU had to take a step back, who are you to protest.

So again, you are on the side of your masters, the same that overlook what Tusk is doing to Poland right now.

Appreciate the long distance questionable trade deals that organizations like the EU, WTO and other globalist institutions enable while you can, because they would be much less likely to exist in the first place without the "international order" that the countries you shit on established for the sake of making trade easier.

Who said I appreciate them? Who said that said trade benefits the average citizen of Europe and not makes his or her life miserable? The only ones who see said profits it is not the citizens of the EU but only those who rules over us. Fuck the international order, there is nothing positive left to speak for it.

The alternative is not pie in the sky and rivers of milk, it is what was before - more medieval style trade with most long routes being risky or taxed badly by all countries on the way. So be careful what you wish for, you may vote it in, and it may turn out to be twice as bad as the thing you are getting rid of.

Thank you for confirming you have the intellectual capacity of an uncivilized delirious progressive art student.

Good night Marduk and here

You dropped this. That crap must be good for you coming up with this delirium on par with the average PhD in Liberal studies.

Sleep well.

 

[Marduk]

Great to see you you admit that you want to replace other Europeans when it suits your masters... And fat chance of that happening, we are the "people" that make children and value tradition more than liberal safety concerns for the international order.

LMAO. What fucking masters?
And don't fucking try to paint Italy of all places as some conservative island oppressed by evil international liberals to take migrants.
You can't exactly claim to vote less leftists into powers than others, you have one of worst TFRs in all Europe (so much for you people making children), but go on talking about other people with their masters conspiring against your great traditionalist champion corruptocrats.

The Ukraine is everything but a sovereign nation is not, never was and never will be.

Certainly not if Russia has anything to say about it.

A German propaganda that went too far.
The Ukraine non-existence hasn't affected positively or negatively any of its neighbors prior to WW1 so it is not going to change.

But it did affect us after WW1.
So be careful about waving off countries for existing at some point of history and not being important, Italy didn't exist at not so distant point in history too, i could do that too.

You? I didn't have a goddamn choice Marduk. We never voted to join NATO or the EU, both are decisions that weren't made by the average Italian.

Well by that logic neither were any other decisions, including shady deals with Russia, so fuck that too.

Fat chance of that happening.

And lucky for you, otherwise you would have to live with consequences of your crazy ideas, and even worse so, with other people finding out about those crazy ideas and their consequences.

So again, you are on the side of your masters, the same that overlook what Tusk is doing to Poland right now.

Please enlighten me what he did.

Who said I appreciate them? Who said that said trade benefits the average citizen of Europe and not makes his or her life miserable? The only ones who see said profits it is not the citizens of the EU but only those who rules over us. Fuck the international order, there is nothing positive left to speak for it.

Thank you for confirming you have the intellectual capacity of an uncivilized delirious progressive art student.

Good night Marduk and here

You dropped this. That crap must be good for you coming up with this delirium on par with the average PhD in Liberal studies.

Sleep well.

Thank you for confirming that your idea about modern economics is equal to that of average "antiglobalist" lefty protester and proving that there's a goddamn reason why no one sane wants to listen to PIGS countries complaining about economics.

Who said you appreciate them? You are the one who whined about losing out on "a lot" of contribution to your economy Russia supposedly gave you, because of Ukraine war, and said "a lot" being...

Italy's import-export system

What are the countries of origin and destination of goods and the international positioning of Italy?

www.cswindow.contshipitalia.com

8th top import source with 6% of imports (less than fucking Belgium), and outside of top 10 in exports (even Poland is in it).
So make up your mind if trade benefits are important or not, and if they are, get some bloody sense about where those benefits come from.

 

[Buba]

Russia and Italy - pre-Napoleon, during the national aspiration trampling invasion by imperialistic French I Republic, Tsar Paul sent internationalist aid to the freedom loving Italians. These Russian volunteers under the always-victorious Suvorov fought in Venetia and Lombardy.

8th top import source with 6% of imports (less than fucking Belgium)

The wonders of statistics. I'd wager good money that the Blelgium figure includes goods unloaded at the port of Antwerp and sent to France and Germany.

 

[ATP]

Russia and Italy - pre-Napoleon, during the national aspiration trampling invasion by imperialistic French I Republic, Tsar Paul sent internationalist aid to the freedom loving Italians. These Russian volunteers under the always-victorious Suvorov fought in Venetia and Lombardy.


The wonders of statistics. I'd wager good money that the Blelgium figure includes goods unloaded at the port of Antwerp and sent to France and Germany.

I think,that they fought in Switzerland,too.Althought considering that Nappy take both Italy and Switzerland,probably without any bigger victories.
I am not suprised - Russians NEVER manage to win without numerical advantage.Well,not in Europe.Asia was another thing.

 

[Husky_Khan]

A new layer of defense has been integrated into Moscows unparalleled Integrated Air Defense System.

 

[Buba]

A new layer of defense has been integrated into Moscows unparalleled Integrated Air Defense System.

As amusing as your comment is, I actually suspect that Regulations require a sentry. Or the guard protects from theft/vandalisation/saboteurs.
The absolutely useless camouflage netting is also probably due to Regulations.

 

[ATP]

As amusing as your comment is, I actually suspect that Regulations require a sentry. Or the guard protects from theft/vandalisation/saboteurs.
The absolutely useless camouflage netting is also probably due to Regulations.

Useless ? why? i could not see any Pantsir there !

 

[TheRejectionist]