Election 2020 Bidening the Trump? Trumping the Biden? The presidential debate thread.

Duke Nukem said:
Once again trump has denounced white supremacists.

But he also denounced the proud boys for some reason, i don't agree with him on that.

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The Proud Boys aren't racists.

However their clashes with Antifa and BLM have not painted them in a great light. They are a little too violence-prone and have started a few scuffles themselves. Useful if we actually get to the point of wide scale civil conflict, less useful in avoiding reaching that point to begin with.

I'm not sure how much Trump knew about them before the debate; he may have got a briefing afterward that changed his view on them.
 
Bacle said:
The Proud Boys aren't racists.

However their clashes with Antifa and BLM have not painted them in a great light. They are a little too violence-prone and have started a few scuffles themselves. Useful if we actually get to the point of wide scale civil conflict, less useful in avoiding reaching that point to begin with.

I'm not sure how much Trump knew about them before the debate; he may have got a briefing afterward that changed his view on them.
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Bacle you have read history, you more then anyone knows that when left wing violence is left purposefully unchecked that counter organizations will appear to stop it.

By historical standards the proud boys are incredibly mild, normally reactions to 3 plus months of constant rioting years of attacks and assholish behavior are much more sever. In fact normally in american history after this kind of violence you get public hangings as a result.
 
White supremacy is an elastic buzz term that can and does mean everything from hard work and initiative towards Reason and Logic.

It can and will be used to describe conservative and right leaning politics, to delegitimatize opposition.

It means only what viciously anti White people want it to mean.

Trump being pressured to condemn it is, a way of getting him to ultimately condemn himself and his base.
 
Cherico said:
Bacle you have read history, you more then anyone knows that when left wing violence is left purposefully unchecked that counter organizations will appear to stop it.

By historical standards the proud boys are incredibly mild, normally reactions to 3 plus months of constant rioting years of attacks and assholish behavior are much more sever. In fact normally in american history after this kind of violence you get public hangings as a result.
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There is a difference between seeking out a fight, vs being there to help people if a fight breaks out and defending yourself.

It's the difference between the Proud Boys and Rittenhouse.

The Proud Boys existed before the riots and Covid, they didn't spring up in response to it. They aren't white supremacists, but some of their members definitely go looking for a fight, rather than simply being prepared for a fight if one breaks out.

I am not going to condone street violence for the sake of street violence, no matter the side.
 
Bacle said:
There is a difference between seeking out a fight, vs being there to help people if a fight breaks out and defending yourself.

It's the difference between the Proud Boys and Rittenhouse.

The Proud Boys existed before the riots and Covid, they didn't spring up in response to it. They aren't white supremacists, but some of their members definitely go looking for a fight, rather than simply being prepared for a fight if one breaks out.

I am not going to condone street violence for the sake of street violence, no matter the side.
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I don't like it either but the only way to solve it is to put Antifa and their leaders in prison, and to remove the other violent assholes from the board. The Proud boys are a reactive force unless you deal with the issue that caused their birth and creation other organizations will pop up and those replacements will be a lot more violent.
 
Cherico said:
I don't like it either but the only way to solve it is to put Antifa and their leaders in prison, and to remove the other violent assholes from the board. The Proud boys are a reactive force unless you deal with the issue that caused their birth and creation other organizations will pop up and those replacements will be a lot more violent.
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ANTIFA and co are getting the hammer now that Feds are cross deputizing state officers to get around partisan DAs, Mayors, and Govs. They're leaders are getting picked up, even if their Dem backers are still loose.

The Proud Boys, as a reactive force, are not aiding the situation most of the time. Noble aims, but the execution has been haphazard and they are not exercising much control over their membership.

If they really wanted to do what they intend in a legit fashion, the Proud Boys should simply form their own security firm and allow concerned business owners/citizens to hire them as guards and escorts. Makes it all above board, forces them to take control of their membership, and gives them legitimacy they lack right now.
 
The Proud Boys are basically basic bitch right wingers. Of the type you’d find on the Daily Caller or Freerepublic.

Their undisciplined, ineffectual, and generally have no program beyond “fighting communism, America hoo rah”.

They’re better than nothing, but I’d prefer a more ideologically focused and disciplined organization.

They don’t have good PR and come across as LARPers all the time.

I suppose they have their uses though.

At the same time, media/Dem/leftist hype of them being some sort of Brownshirt organization is retarded in the extreme.
 
Bacle said:
ANTIFA and co are getting the hammer now that Feds are cross deputizing state officers to get around partisan DAs, Mayors, and Govs. They're leaders are getting picked up, even if their Dem backers are still loose.

The Proud Boys, as a reactive force, are not aiding the situation most of the time. Noble aims, but the execution has been haphazard and they are not exercising much control over their membership.

If they really wanted to do what they intend in a legit fashion, the Proud Boys should simply form their own security firm and allow concerned business owners/citizens to hire them as guards and escorts. Makes it all above board, forces them to take control of their membership, and gives them legitimacy they lack right now.
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I think we are talking past each other.

Your talking about how things should ideally go, I am talking about how things historically go.

My point of view Is that I am surprised that there is so little right wing violence because historically speaking most societies after 3 months of rioting with the authoirties not giving a shit get vigelanti justice if your lucky and death squads if your not.
I am honestly surprised things are this civil normally by now you have a society wide tipping point.
 
There’s no organization for right wing violence to exist. And a government that is ambivalent to hostile to it.

The Proud Boys are no Freikorps, they aren’t even Contras.

The reason why the riots and leftist pandemonium haven’t been met with a serious rightist response is because large sections of the government are sympathetic to Antifa or BLM or outright backing them.

Not to mention Right Wing street organization is terrible and haphazard.
 
I’m not sure what the context of that Trump quote is, but if he is condemning the Proud Boys then that is really unfortunate. It’s unfortunate that he should undermine one of his high points in the debate in an attempt to appease people who will think he is an evil racist no matter what he does short of selling his soul to them.

The Proud Boys arose in direct response to left wing violence against conservatives that was being facilitated by law endowment. Conservatives couldn’t even have a rally or a speaker on a campus without being attacked or terrorized while police looked the other way or actively helped Antifa. If there is anything bad to say about the Proud Boys it is that they are in fact too peaceful and moderate to counteract the violent extremists destroying this country.

Trump should stand up and fight for the people standing up and fighting for him.
 
So, Trump has Corona. Given the debate Bernie probably does too. Bets on who gave it to who? Or would it have taken longer for the other to test posisitive if he got it at the debate given it was only a couple days ago?
 
7 Gold Eye Heals the Wise said:
We should use this as a reason to sanction China.
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Reason for war with China really.
Abhishekm said:
So, Trump has Corona. Given the debate Bernie probably does too. Bets on who gave it to who? Or would it have taken longer for the other to test posisitive if he got it at the debate given it was only a couple days ago?
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He got it from his aide, but Biden may also have it but be asymptomatic
 
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