Culture Dehumanizing Human Supremacist Tripe (if You really want to feel good about Your kind, then pick a culture and celebrate it)

King Krávoka

An infection of Your universe.
/r/HFY's recently concluded The Nature of Predators was a Turner Diaries for Overton Window beliefs, as in, it is a hilarious evisceration of the demonic ideology that it was written to promote. It is ostensibly yet another stab at the skeletal horse of fascism, but the only racial-supremacist government was actually being propped up by an extraterrestrial equivalent to the United Nations. The main characters, by the way, work for or alongside the Earth equivalent of the Federation.
So it remains an allegory for the existential threat posed by a particular political system, but not the failed experiments of last century's Europe, the very one that it celebrates and supports with open hands.
  1. Though purported to assist the global/galactic community, its actions only follow the interests of the founding superpower(s), by design.
  2. Any sense of a permanent, naturally occurring culture is demolished, replaced with a generic one that has been minimalized for ease of implementation, until the original can be sanitized for mass production and consumption.
  3. A secular religion has been created by holding a monopoly on sciences of health, whether physical, planetary, or mental, then taking certain notions as unquestionable fact and blacklisting anyone that disagrees from the scientific consensus, furthermore using the idea of One That Disagrees as the definition of intolerable political evil. All self-admitted faiths are only tolerated once they have been reformed to comply with the moral prescriptions of the actual state religion.
  4. Despite this manipulation of consensus, ethical restrictions are given frequent exceptions to assist nations with following their interdependant economic roles.
  5. Most loosened is the extremist underdog faction that is treated like an enemy in its surface level interactions, but is actually a direct and intentional creation of the leading power like all other nations. They are not fought, they are farmed with physical violence through a careful mix of intentional failure, direct aid, and evasion of the core problem.
  6. And when the secular state religion encounters any other crisis, the 'solution' is to seek more control over the populace after doubling down on the events that caused it, because these events are also intentional products of the religion's implementation.
  7. There are recognized differences between peoples, yes, but those are quirks. All people are otherwise of an identical nature, one that is coincidentally identical to an unattainable state of perfect compliance with the system and its demands. The problem is never outside of You, but we will take it out by loving application of drugs and surgery.
I get how the author did this without having any really thoughtful or odd opinions, He needed a twist villain, so He had to invent a familiar system and work out all the ways that it can turn against Life Itself and the Human Spirit, and before He knew it He wrote bad guys that did literally nothing but what his protagonist faction does IRL. I don't think that You or I could make a better anti-modernist tract, He was even able to turn reddit users into frothing antimaskers.

To make matters worst, the main characters still fill out Article 1 (Humanity takes disproportionate favor in discussions because they're the only spacefaring species that wasn't thoroughly lobotomized by Federation dogma), 7 (the protagonists adopt a 3 year alien child from a warzone with no indication that she's kept in touch with her native culture <it's also revealed later on that her species suffers from an fatal allergy that is ridiculously easy to trigger on Earth, her adoptive father contracts it in a warzone, and it's treated like a massive tragedy that it's keeping him away from his family>, and another is put on amphetamines for office-incompatible-behavior after from she's rescued from similarly motivated abuse in a side story), and probably 5 in the form of the Humanity First organization that does nothing but make implausible successful attacks on the UN Secretary-General (really this is just the author having glowops as his only frame of reference for political extremists). It's a really refreshing and unique twist from "We need xenophobic despotism (human) to stop the threat of xenophobic despotism (alien)".
So in the end, the lesson of the story that has been hidden even from the author, that three letter agencies will burn the world to keep their jobs, bodes nothing good for the winners of the story. It's like, even when HFY authors try to celebrate the good of Humanity, they still write the most dehumanizing slop.
 
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Iconoclast

Perpetually Angry
Obozny
It's like, even when HFY authors try to celebrate the good of Humanity, they still write the most dehumanizing slop.
I find most HFY very patronizing to begin with. It’s like, no, humans are not that good, or wise, or competent. Someone needs to tell these authors to stop listening to Sabaton and beating their meat raw to Steven Pinker and Karl Popper tracts. It’s unseemly.

Humanity in HFYs is basically what most people who work for NGOs imagine themselves as; all-powerful busybody psychopaths who inflict violence on people who just want to be left the fuck alone instead of being steamrolled and crushed under the boot of modernity.

We need a Humanity Fuck No genre, where humans are like backstabbing Skaven bitches who are frail and egotistical incompetents who can screw up a wet dream, run by a nasty shadow government of decadent and depraved aristocrat lunatics. There’d be aliens and stuff who’d be like, “I heard humans were cannibals who eat their own children”, and there’d be this alien investigator who dug too deep and discovered concrete vaults full of child bones who’d be literally shitting himself inside-out with terror.
 

King Krávoka

An infection of Your universe.
I find most HFY very patronizing to begin with. It’s like, no, humans are not that good, or wise, or competent. Someone needs to tell these authors to stop listening to Sabaton and beating their meat raw to Steven Pinker and Karl Popper tracts. It’s unseemly.

Humanity in HFYs is basically what most people who work for NGOs imagine themselves as; all-powerful busybody psychopaths who inflict violence on people who just want to be left the fuck alone instead of being steamrolled and crushed under the boot of modernity.

We need a Humanity Fuck No genre, where humans are like backstabbing Skaven bitches who are frail and egotistical incompetents who can screw up a wet dream, run by a nasty shadow government of decadent and depraved aristocrat lunatics. There’d be aliens and stuff who’d be like, “I heard humans were cannibals who eat their own children”, and there’d be this alien investigator who dug too deep and discovered concrete vaults full of child bones who’d be literally shitting himself inside-out with terror.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
It's like, even when HFY authors try to celebrate the good of Humanity, they still write the most dehumanizing slop.
I have a soft spot for HFY due to the fact they don't self immolate.
Most westerners live with crippling levels of white guilt mental disorder. So when they write fantasy or space fantasy stories they constantly extend this into "human guilt".
Humans are evil colonizers and "orc lives matter", and "why do humans always steal the lands of the noble savage orcs / goblins / etc".

I think part of the question is... where does it come out of.
You just gave one that comes out of the bowls of woke forums filled with woke cultists. Of course their take on the genre is going to be horrible.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I find most HFY very patronizing to begin with. It’s like, no, humans are not that good, or wise, or competent. Someone needs to tell these authors to stop listening to Sabaton and beating their meat raw to Steven Pinker and Karl Popper tracts. It’s unseemly.
First off, this is the first time I hear of this HFY, assuming it is Humanity Fuck Yeah, aka yet another shitty sub-plebbit.

Second!!!!!
Hey, I like Sabaton, what the hell does it have to do with cherry picked quasi-religious crap like Pinker's works?
he is basically a Chomsky wannabe.

Btw, for those who enjoy that stuff there was a fun little debate between him and John Mearsheimer I saw recently, however I must disagree with both of them on a lot, since JM is a fan of liberalism and enlightenment even though he understands their limits:



Now, I sort of agree that there are some "first principles" that all life "agrees" on which are eating, control over the environment, growth and reproduction.

Furthermore, the idea that "muh liberalism" led to all the material life improvements Pinky tends to claim it led to, like better life expectancy, nutrition, less child and maternal mortality, all of that can be traced to concrete, technological innovation, better resource access via trade and conquest and extraction technologies, and to capitalism and the legal frameworks that enable it, such as laws protecting private property not to muh liberalism or muh enlightenment.
Humanity in HFYs is basically what most people who work for NGOs imagine themselves as; all-powerful busybody psychopaths who inflict violence on people who just want to be left the fuck alone instead of being steamrolled and crushed under the boot of modernity.
My HFY is more in line with 40k Imperium or the more hardline UEF elements from SupCom.

I would prefer humanity to be the equivalent of the galaxy's mongols than of the galaxy's indians.
Because I am human and will side with my species over others!
And that is likely the driving force behind much of fiction humanwhank and probably these guys's shenanigans.
We need a Humanity Fuck No genre, where humans are like backstabbing Skaven bitches who are frail and egotistical incompetents who can screw up a wet dream, run by a nasty shadow government of decadent and depraved aristocrat lunatics. There’d be aliens and stuff who’d be like, “I heard humans were cannibals who eat their own children”, and there’d be this alien investigator who dug too deep and discovered concrete vaults full of child bones who’d be literally shitting himself inside-out with terror.
Er, closest I can think of are a few short stories and novels by nu Wave writers, the likes of PKD, Harlan Ellison, Thomas M. Disch.

We also have Peter Watts's body of work, where humans are not merely stupid and short sighted and greedy, but outright a mistake of evolution.

If you expand the circle you also get the usual preachy environmentalist shit and Murikha colonization allegories ranging from Avatar, Turtledove's stupid Avatar knockoff released just in time to milk the market after Avatar, shit like "Where late the sweet birds sang" .


And of course we have all those Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits episodes where humans are put in a zoo or taken over or exterminated.

And of course this expands even further if you add things like parody/comedy to it, in fact I think that Mission Earth might be a prime example of what you want. Damn, that book series was hilarious.
 
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King Krávoka

An infection of Your universe.
You just gave one that comes out of the bowls of woke forums filled with woke cultists. Of course their take on the genre is going to be horrible.
'Horrible' is a bit much. Just because - alien characters had anterograde amnesia forcing you to read through the same tripe about discovering the non-evils of Human kind, the Human characters were too incurious to understand the evolution of the galaxy into a dystopia through anything other than monologues from the squidnewts, every other chapter had an "It was [adjective] that..." snowclone, the 'autistic' antspider was literally the least autistic person in the storyline, the author made Earth seem almost as socially and technologically stagnant as their opponents because his futurology was limited to Elon Musk products, there are paypig plotlines that paypigs are only allowed to discuss with other paypigs, the antichrist; Wearing-The-Lord's-Name-In-Vain Meier; who passed the Emergency Order 56 that banned Earth from disseminating space with cultural information fitting the aliens' anticoncept of 'predatory' and religious proselytism in general when propaganda on the matter of Human depravity was widespread throughout the galaxy and his allied spaces in particular; (spoiled to protect your sanity) asked a lizard 'nazi' to do his cannibalize-enslave-then-bomb routine on the homeworlds of the aliens that were coming to bomb Earth for being prospectively genocidal, ordered the UN fleet to then tell the fleet in no uncertain terms that Humanity was bringing this upon their heads; and then denied his offer to give actual aid to the defense of Earth; before having a death scene shilling his commitment to peace and the best of Humanity once the dust settled, and most things about the war effort or evolution of the alien's culture gets glossed over by the opening narration for conversations and monologues about learning to live in peace - does not mean that the author did not make a salient metaphor for how secular philosophies become abusive dogma in worlds such as ours, the dependence of elitism on an ideal creature without aggression or identity, and the omnicidal interests of bureaucracy.

The author did think it up in a fever dream, after all, so that must be a sign of Inspiration (but I'm the sole Unicorn Jelly enthusiast on this website so take my tastes as You will). A better author would have the ability to contrast the concepts of the story against their equivalents on the Earth of today, and outline how We could (real) / did (fake) defeat them, before showing how it would be a matter of inevitable time that space travel would unshackle all Peoples from the plotted decline that late stage globalists depend upon.
 
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mrttao

Well-known member
I love HFY.

Then again, I’m someone who considers The Imperium of Man HFY incarnate, so I probably have very different ideas of it compared to others. None of that Star Fleet soft nonsense.
How in the fuck could anyone consider Star Fleet to be HFY
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
BTW all this talking about HFN and 40k makes me think of a fun little scenario.

What of we retell 40k from the Necrons perspective?

They just wanted into FTL and better medical tech but those damned First Ones wouldn't let them.

Then the ecil First Ones even started a war and made all sorts of warp capable monstrossities that mucked up the warp and made demons a thing.

Then the Necron good guys killed off all the warp weirdos and false "gods" and decided to take a nap.

But then one of the old self reproducing Old One weapons made a big mess due to being made up of pointy ear pervs, and everyone started poking at the Necrons territories and waking them up from their deserved nap.

Yeah, however you look at it, the Necrons are the only species in the Galaxy that is faultless and that does not cause warp fuckery.

The Necrons were the GOOD GUYS ALL ALONG.

Now, after Islamhsmmer we should really do Necronhammer 60 746 899
 

mrttao

Well-known member
They are leftoids, they consider Karens a good thing.

And the federation is basically Karen, the civilization, with fun doodads.

That and the obnoxious British middle class, oh, no wait, that is the culture.
Well, yes.
But beyond that humanity there is pretty fucked.

> Eugenics wars leaves a fucked over humanity barely surviving on toxic earth
> Get rescued by xenos
> Get civilized by xenos
> Get tech uplifted by xenos
> Decides to simp for xenos by paying it forward. go around uplifting a bunch of other xenos across the galaxy.
> Shitty communism
> Very shitty at defending its people
> Has rebels breaking away to form their own nations due to how badly the federal govt fucks over everyone. (the maki)
> Relies almost entirely on luck, and on enemies fighting each other to survive.
> Constantly on cusp of annihilation from ever more scary xenos they can't compete with
> Only race to ban genetic therapy, causing them to stagnate. (granted they are stagnating at 160 average IQ. a leftover from the eugenics wars)
> At some point become dependents on a literal god that pities them enough to save them. (Q)
> Some other gods also join in on propping them up (the bjoran gods)

The federation is pathetic. And the fuck yea in that verse goes to the various xeno races.

It is also ridiculous that an atheist power fantasy is being propped up in universe by literal gods.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
What of we retell 40k from the Necrons perspective?
This is not a necron perspective, it is a modern human larping as a necron while projecting their own values unto them.

The necrons were explicitly omnicidal. Their home world is awful so they hate life and dedicated their entire culture to an athetist cult dedicated to the extermination of all living creatures in the universe out of sheer SPITE.
That is their official party line.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
This is not a necron perspective, it is a modern human larping as a necron while projecting their own values unto them.

The necrons were explicitly omnicidal. Their home world is awful so they hate life and dedicated their entire culture to an athetist cult dedicated to the extermination of all living creatures in the universe out of sheer SPITE.
That is their official party line.
So basically your average slav born in a panelka that had too much vodka and redbull, then.
 

Iconoclast

Perpetually Angry
Obozny
There’d be aliens and stuff who’d be like, “I heard humans were cannibals who eat their own children”, and there’d be this alien investigator who dug too deep and discovered concrete vaults full of child bones who’d be literally shitting himself inside-out with terror.
He should be like, trapped in a subterranean charnel pit, hiding in an alcove while these Eyes Wide Shut dudes in Venetian masks and robes and shit are stalking the halls with lanterns, clamping his little alien paws over his mouth, trying to stifle the sound of his breathing while the humans are near.

Goddammit, this just loops right back around to HFY, doesn't it?
 
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mrttao

Well-known member
> Eugenics wars leaves a fucked over humanity barely surviving on toxic earth
I just realized this might have been a dig at nazies.

> we kept on having evil Nazies prop up everywhere and instituting eugenics and performing genocides of whomever they deemed as inferior. Sure it raised the average IQ to 160, but also left the earth as a nuclear wasteland
> thankfully we got civilized by xenos and instituted a one world govt enforced communism
 
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Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
This is not a necron perspective, it is a modern human larping as a necron while projecting their own values unto them.

The necrons were explicitly omnicidal. Their home world is awful so they hate life and dedicated their entire culture to an athetist cult dedicated to the extermination of all living creatures in the universe out of sheer SPITE.
That is their official party line.

Are you sure you're not describing the Imperium of Man there?
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
I just realized this might have been a dig at nazies.

> we kept on having evil Nazies prop up everywhere and instituting eugenics and performing genocides of whomever they deemed as inferior. Sure it raised the average IQ to 160, but also left the earth as a nuclear wasteland
> thankfully we got civilized by aliens and instituted a one world govt enforced communism
Star Trek Utopia Communism sort of works on a personal/low societal level because, outside of very few things, they have technology which can create shit from thin air, and automation to the point where people choose to be toilet cleaners.

However, the same consequences of outright socialism and communism are still expressed through the Federation as a whole. Hell, writers in DS9, Voyager, and early tNG (episodes which set up DS9) basically lampooned the Federation's idealism and such in certain storylines and dialogue, especially through Quark and the other Ferengis.
 

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