United States Desantis or Trump: 2024?

[Abhorsen]

The Grand Jury could also have simply decided there wasn't enough evidence (Which, given how much the Prosecutor lied in court, could have been because they were given false evidence).

The Rittenhouse situation was caused by Prosecutorial misconduct, not discretion.

Yes, there was misconduct, agreed. But part of the problem was the lack of use of discretion. This should have never hit a grand jury. The only purpose of a grand jury is really to stop the truly stupid attempts of the prosecution, as only the prosecution has a say (also they can independently indict/investigate things, IIRC). Many lawyers commented during live streams of the case that it shouldn't have been prosecuted (I want to say it was on the Rekeita stream and it was Barnes, but I don't have a link, apologies).

And agreed about the immunity for prosecutors.

So I'm curious, if a Prosecutor ran on a platform of "I'm going to reinstitute slavery" would you support it if he was elected? Or would you recognize that he's grossly overstepping and doesn't actually have the authority to do that even if 51% of the people do vote for him?

I'm against adding laws (and slavery somewhat requires adding laws. But say it was for something equally horrific where just removing laws would apply, like not prosecuting murder. The solutions are: DA with greater jurisdictions intervening (the Civil Rights act covers this and grants federal jurisdiction in such cases), and state DAs can do so when the DA of a city is being egregious enough. Also, add recall elections. But ultimately this is what they voted for, and this is what the future of the city will be as they vote in legislatures/mayors. So if you don't like it, this is a quick way to expose what a bad idea it is, and warn people in advance who don't like it that they might have to move if they can't stop it.

Ah, cool. Hilter was elected, I guess everything he did was a-ok and totally aboveboard.

And the issue I have is that at some point, if enough people want to do something horrible, they will do so. I'm not saying the actions by the DA were right morally. But did they follow what the system should be? Yes. And if there are enough people willing to do bad things in the voting populace, you'll get an evil leader. No system can guard perfectly against bad leaders.

Do remember, those laws were created by the voters in the first place, via their elected representatives in the legislature, which is where lawmaking authority is properly vested. This is basic seperation of powers stuff, the executive branch does not have the power to engage in defacto lawmaking by rewriting the legal codes to legalize certain infections that the people have decided should be prohibited.

... Chevron Deference would make you effectively wrong there. The executive branch of the US government makes a majority of the law. Which sucks, and I'm not for, but that's the state of things.

As for separation of powers, it's up to the executive to see how they are going to carry out the laws of the state, and if they say "Hey, our prosecuting strategy will be X" that seems fine to me. It could be "We'll prosecute even stupid crimes" or "We won't prosecute whole classes of crimes". Their choice. And since it serves to give local choice, that's a good thing IMO. If it was a state wide DA, I'd be more sympathetic to the argument.

My objection to the DA here is "Not prosecuting crimes is a bad idea" not "You have a duty to punish all categories of crimes"

That isn't nullification. That's "they haven't broken any of the laws we are tasked to enforce, and there's no law obligating us to help you enforce your laws. So we won't". That's a totally different thing than just refusing to enforce the law.

I seem to recall that in Virginia, a number of Sheriffs promised to do that with Virginia state law. Same thing here.

 

[Battlegrinder]

And the issue I have is that at some point, if enough people want to do something horrible, they will do so.

Fine. They have the right to do that. But if you take a job that requires you swear an oath to enforce the laws those people pass, you have an obligation to uphold that oath.

But did they follow what the system should be?

No, he did not. The system is not "the people elected lawmakers, who write and pass bills which approved by the head of the executive branch, and if he does so they become laws.....unless some random DA decides to second guess everyone else and declare his judgement above everyone else's, then the law is defacto vetoed".

And since it serves to give local choice, that's a good thing IMO.

Sure, great idea, but why stop there? After all, if local choice is always good, why so cut it off County level? Let's let every single town pick and choose what laws they feel should be binding. Local choice, right? Heck, let's go ever farther, no msn should be bound to the law unless he chooses to, it's his local choice after all.

If it was a state wide DA, I'd be more sympathetic to the argument.

Local DAs are still bound to follow and enforce state law.

Chevron Deference would make you effectively wrong there. The executive branch of the US government makes a majority of the law. Which sucks, and I'm not for, but that's the state of things.

That doesn't make me wrong, that makes Chevron another violation of seperation of powers.

I seem to recall that in Virginia, a number of Sheriffs promised to do that with Virginia state law. Same thing here.

It's not the same thing since they're saying they won't enforce a hypothetical law that doesn't exist yet, vs actively refusing to enforce an actual law, and to the extent that it is the same, it makes them wrong too, it doesn't make Warren right. If they don't want to enforce the law as they swore they would, they can resign.

 

[The Original Sixth]

Look at the end of the day what we are dealing with from the left is weaponized legalism.

Its litteral rules for thee but not for me, they will use the law to go after their political enemies even precieved political enemies while giving themselves and their people free reign to violate any law they please. There is no nice way to deal with this the only path you have is the path of revenge.

I agree it's slanted and it angers me to see that behavior, but you should take some heart in the fact that it is a sign of weakness. The DNC doesn't call in Antifa because they think they're winning. They call in Antifa because they think they're losing. The DNC has come to think that it can play with fire and come out ahead. I think they've made a critical mistake and it's going to blow up in their faces.

Because the thing with terrorist groups is that they're ideologically driven to the nth degree. They are not rational political actors, at least not most of them. And with a de-centralized organization like Antifa, that is incredibly fucking dangerous. Because groups are going to start acting out on their own at some point and it's going to taint their entire brand.

You have to do to them what they do unto you. That mean you do the exact same thing you weaponize the legal system against leftists which is real easy right now because most of the worst ones think their above the law. You go after left wing DAs and you enforce the law against them you fuck up their shit.

You should not just let people run roughshod over you, I agree. Yet you need to be careful what weapons you decide to wield when you take them from your enemy. If you become a statist to defeat the statist, you've become a statist and unless you have an immense strength of character, you aren't going to surrender that power, because you will have based your entire position upon it. That's a trap too many Republicans have fallen into.

You make it so god awful that they turn to you and agree to stop doing it because of the fear of retaliation.

If you don't they will just continue getting worse and worse because these people are horrifically bad at the whole boundries thing and have lost their fucking minds.

They have lost their minds, but that's because they're losing. People are already fed up with them and are using their votes to put in people who have the right ideas. So now the DNC has resorted to lying, cheating, and terrorism to try and win, believing that they can ride the storm. And that's because they think they're a lot smarter than they actually are. They are playing with things that they do not understand and expecting to come out ahead.

What is actually happening is the exact opposite of what they intend. The insist that we all need to give up our constitutional rights to be safe from danger. Then they send out Antifa and prevent the police from doing anything. Then when people get scared and buy up guns to protect themselves, they go after gun rights and try to intimidate citizens defending life and property. They insist that the quality of life must be provided by the state, but they've only succeeded in increasing gas and food prices because their proxy war didn't go the way they'd thought it would.

And what I think will happen is a decentralization of power from the Federal government. I expect that this will be a mostly peaceful process, but it will be driven by fears of violence and frustration with the government. The DNC fucking around with mail-in-ballots have brought into question the legitimacy of the government elections--and the power to change those laws are in the hands of states, not the Feds. And many of those are Republican held.

The DNC is literally creating the very backlash that will defeat them.

 

[Cherico]

I agree it's slanted and it angers me to see that behavior, but you should take some heart in the fact that it is a sign of weakness. The DNC doesn't call in Antifa because they think they're winning. They call in Antifa because they think they're losing. The DNC has come to think that it can play with fire and come out ahead. I think they've made a critical mistake and it's going to blow up in their faces.

Because the thing with terrorist groups is that they're ideologically driven to the nth degree. They are not rational political actors, at least not most of them. And with a de-centralized organization like Antifa, that is incredibly fucking dangerous. Because groups are going to start acting out on their own at some point and it's going to taint their entire brand.




You should not just let people run roughshod over you, I agree. Yet you need to be careful what weapons you decide to wield when you take them from your enemy. If you become a statist to defeat the statist, you've become a statist and unless you have an immense strength of character, you aren't going to surrender that power, because you will have based your entire position upon it. That's a trap too many Republicans have fallen into.




They have lost their minds, but that's because they're losing. People are already fed up with them and are using their votes to put in people who have the right ideas. So now the DNC has resorted to lying, cheating, and terrorism to try and win, believing that they can ride the storm. And that's because they think they're a lot smarter than they actually are. They are playing with things that they do not understand and expecting to come out ahead.

What is actually happening is the exact opposite of what they intend. The insist that we all need to give up our constitutional rights to be safe from danger. Then they send out Antifa and prevent the police from doing anything. Then when people get scared and buy up guns to protect themselves, they go after gun rights and try to intimidate citizens defending life and property. They insist that the quality of life must be provided by the state, but they've only succeeded in increasing gas and food prices because their proxy war didn't go the way they'd thought it would.

And what I think will happen is a decentralization of power from the Federal government. I expect that this will be a mostly peaceful process, but it will be driven by fears of violence and frustration with the government. The DNC fucking around with mail-in-ballots have brought into question the legitimacy of the government elections--and the power to change those laws are in the hands of states, not the Feds. And many of those are Republican held.

The DNC is literally creating the very backlash that will defeat them.

Its frustrating that its taking this long.