EU European migrant crisis - rolling deja vu edition

[Urabrask Revealed]

@Beardius Prime Morocco is a beautiful country, but I would never travel it except in full skirts, dresses and outer-shawls with a headscarf, and a few pistols and knives appropriately hidden. It's really quite amazing to see western tourists show up in these countries expecting that their immorality will be tolerated by the locals. "When in Rome..." is such a basic piece of advice, but now even it is being ignored. It's quite amazing to contrast the experiences of modern western tourists with the early 20th century adventuresses who dressed appropriately, learned the language, and proceeded to travel anywhere in North Africa or Arabia with perfect ease.

True. There're at least three reports on leftwingers who thought religion is a silly thing, and everyone everywhere is the same civilized people. Oh, how wrong they were, these poor people...

 

[CarlManvers2019]

True. There're at least three reports on leftwingers who thought religion is a silly thing, and everyone everywhere is the same civilized people. Oh, how wrong they were, these poor people...

Too much willing ignorance and naivety.

Also, making false equivalencies between the levels of "Religious Fundamentalism" between Islam and Christianity/Catholicism/Protestantism/Judaism/etc(other offshoots)

They really like to think of how it's mostly or only the terrorists they have to worry about in-regards to Islamic crazies.

I swear, there will come a day where most European comic books will be burnt and deleted due to "immoral content"

 

[Arch Dornan]

@Beardius Prime Morocco is a beautiful country, but I would never travel it except in full skirts, dresses and outer-shawls with a headscarf, and a few pistols and knives appropriately hidden. It's really quite amazing to see western tourists show up in these countries expecting that their immorality will be tolerated by the locals. "When in Rome..." is such a basic piece of advice, but now even it is being ignored. It's quite amazing to contrast the experiences of modern western tourists with the early 20th century adventuresses who dressed appropriately, learned the language, and proceeded to travel anywhere in North Africa or Arabia with perfect ease.

It's a strange phenomenon the first time I see tourists/travellers gets murdered. It's like the people who travel live in a bubble.

I know enough that to travel to a foreign country you'd at least have to be aware of certain things since do something wrong or get in an unlucky situation means your country may not be able to protect you through the embassy.

Stuff like accidentally bringing drugs that can get you the death penalty because someone asked you to take something for them for example. Then there's the American student who took a North Korean flag and got put in prison only to come back to die in some bad prison condition. Cases of people getting abducted for ransom but I can't remember where.

The travelers in Morroco who got a rape murder video screaming for their parents.

American cyclists who resigned to cycle around the world to be killed by people pledging loyalty to Isis.

A woman who got raped and murdred doing some world peace social project in Turkey as part of her travel dressed in a bride dress.

Some women who went to Iraq to dispel the idea that it's unsafe. Nearly got abducted and her response to people warning her was to say fuck you.

Strange one was the christian missionary who went to preach to that Indian native island who were hostile to every outsider and got killed and buried there.

edit: Iraq one I found here. Also talked of the other travel incidents. The Turkey one was two women dressed in white wedding dresses picked up by a Turkish driver.

 

[Deleted member 1]

@Beardius Prime I was in Thailand for some business shortly after the late King Rama IX died. The Thais were very much in mourning and dressed quite conservatively as I was in enough layers to hide the sweat of a Caucasian in the Southeast Asian summer as the monsoon ended (also generally to avoid mosquitos when I ended up spending a great deal of time in a mangrove swamp), I could certainly tell I was treated much more respectfully than the western tourists obliviously ignoring the attempts of the Ministry of Tourism to remind westerners that doing the period of mourning they should dress more modestly.

 

[Arch Dornan]

@Beardius Prime I was in Thailand for some business shortly after the late King Rama IX died. The Thais were very much in mourning and dressed quite conservatively as I was in enough layers to hide the sweat of a Caucasian in the Southeast Asian summer as the monsoon ended (also generally to avoid mosquitos when I ended up spending a great deal of time in a mangrove swamp), I could certainly tell I was treated much more respectfully than the western tourists obliviously ignoring the attempts of the Ministry of Tourism to remind westerners that doing the period of mourning they should dress more modestly.

Adhering to customs though. Sometimes I wonder if there's a limit to it that you can't adhere to it.

A period of mourning for the monarch and asking tourists to be respectful to just dress conservatively looks ok to respectfully adhere to.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Adhering to customs though. Sometimes I wonder if there's a limit to it that you can't adhere to it.

A period of mourning for the monarch and asking tourists to be respectful to just dress conservatively looks ok to respectfully adhere to.

If you’re in a foreign country for any reason other than an invitation of its government or as a representative of your own, no, there is no limit. If you don’t want to adhere to their customs, don’t visit the country.

 

[Arch Dornan]

If you’re in a foreign country for any reason other than an invitation of its government or as a representative of your own, no, there is no limit. If you don’t want to adhere to their customs, don’t visit the country.

Simple enough as a matter of visiting a foreign country.

A more troubling dilemma is when it comes to where you're born to which is the issue of the migrant crisis in the EU and countries of European descent.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Simple enough as a matter of visiting a foreign country.

A more troubling dilemma is when it comes to where you're born to which is the issue of the migrant crisis in the EU and countries of European descent.

A sufficiently small foreign element can integrate, if care is taken. Without any care in the process, and admitting a great and compact mass of a foreign culture, you will have to negotiate with them on a nation to nation basis (or, alternatively, fight to expel them), which means you have given up some measure of your land or you have committed to war.

 

[Marduk]

It's Morocco, so it;s beyond even customs, some areas of that country are just plainly too dangerous to enter without a heavily armed security detail. As the beheading case shows, in more remoted areas it's not impossible to just stumble upon ISIL sympathizers eager to just take an opportunity to murder an infidel or few if they happen to conveniently get themselves into a place with no witnesses or police anywhere nearby.
And that's even with a reasonably "western friendly" government that's holds tourism revenue important, as such at least the culprits were caught and have received a reasonably appropriate punishment, something that may not have even happened in some other places.

Another similar case more directly shows what the problem is:

Young couple trying to prove human kindness killed by ISIS

“Evil is a make-believe concept we’ve invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans holding values and beliefs and perspectives different than our own."

www.jpost.com

As long as some people who are expected to be fully mentally capable adults in the west allow their heads to be filled with hippy style hyperidealistic poppycock that has little to do with the reality and believe it so hard that they are willing to bet their very lives on it, cases like this will keep happening. We live in the age of information, there is no good excuse for them to not know, government sites with threat assessments for visiting places like this exist for a reason.
Note that one of the women in the Morocco case was an aspiring tour guide, and they were studying some tourism industry related field at an university, saying something about the sorry state of western education.

 

[Arch Dornan]

A sufficiently small foreign element can integrate, if care is taken. Without any care in the process, and admitting a great and compact mass of a foreign culture, you will have to negotiate with them on a nation to nation basis (or, alternatively, fight to expel them), which means you have given up some measure of your land or you have committed to war.

Yes that. When I have time I want to put my thoughts on that. It's been on my thoughts sometime ever since the aftermath of the Christchurch shooting.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Yes that. When I have time I want to put my thoughts on that. It's been on my thoughts sometime ever since the aftermath of the Christchurch shooting.

New Zealand though is already in an unavoidable position of being a State of Two Nations because of the Maori; the United States similarly of course must sooner or later do something that will actually work to settle the very real grievances of the African-American population, as well as the equally real grievances of our indigenous population. The chance to avoid that was lost the moment our ancestors made the decision to mass-import slaves. Frankly at this point we have also lost the chance to avoid having a compact mass of a Hispanic American Nation in the southwest United States. It is reality now, they are part of us, and concessions will be necessary.

 

[Marduk]

New Zealand though is already in an unavoidable position of being a State of Two Nations because of the Maori; the United States similarly of course must sooner or later do something that will actually work to settle the very real grievances of the African-American population, as well as the equally real grievances of our indigenous population. The chance to avoid that was lost the moment our ancestors made the decision to mass-import slaves. Frankly at this point we have also lost the chance to avoid having a compact mass of a Hispanic American Nation in the southwest United States. It is reality now, they are part of us, and concessions will be necessary.

I think the point is, as shown in quite a bunch historical examples, being a state of two nations is hardly the worst instability threat possible. The severity of a problem depends on what those two nations may be, how their cultures interact, and on top of that, it can always be more than two, exponentially complicating the politics of the situation with the number and differences between the nations involved.

It's also worth noting that i find the concept of "Hispanic American nation" quite interesting in its background...
I think it's an artificial creation, one made by certain factions of America's own political forces, for their own purposes. After all, there is no "Hispanic nation" in the homelands of said nation, quite an oddity compared to ordinary nations. There, there are Guatemalans, Hondurans, Mexicans, Ecuadorians etc. They only become a different nation once in USA, and it wouldn't necessarily have to be a different nation than plain "American".

 

[Arch Dornan]

New Zealand though is already in an unavoidable position of being a State of Two Nations because of the Maori; the United States similarly of course must sooner or later do something that will actually work to settle the very real grievances of the African-American population, as well as the equally real grievances of our indigenous population. The chance to avoid that was lost the moment our ancestors made the decision to mass-import slaves. Frankly at this point we have also lost the chance to avoid having a compact mass of a Hispanic American Nation in the southwest United States. It is reality now, they are part of us, and concessions will be necessary.

Yes the Maori. I'll need to read back and think on the New Zealand part some more to recollect my memory. EU's more easier to recall.

 

[Deleted member 1]

I think the point is, as shown in quite a bunch historical examples, being a state of two nations is hardly the worst instability threat possible. The severity of a problem depends on what those two nations may be, how their cultures interact, and on top of that, it can always be more than two, exponentially complicating the politics of the situation with the number and differences between the nations involved.

It's also worth noting that i find the concept of "Hispanic American nation" quite interesting in its background...
I think it's an artificial creation, one made by certain factions of America's own political forces, for their own purposes. After all, there is no "Hispanic nation" in the homelands of said nation, quite an oddity compared to ordinary nations. There, there are Guatemalans, Hondurans, Mexicans, Ecuadorians etc. They only become a different nation once in USA, and it wouldn't necessarily have to be a different nation than plain "American".

We had a preexisting Hispanic population in the American southwest, particularly in New Mexico, but also in California and Arizona, which had never integrated, however. So I am not surprised it happened. Ironically, the Texas Hispanics were better integrated, but once the mass immigration began that got, to a certain extent but not completely, lost.

 

[Marduk]

We had a preexisting Hispanic population in the American southwest, particularly in New Mexico, but also in California and Arizona, which had never integrated, however. So I am not surprised it happened. Ironically, the Texas Hispanics were better integrated, but once the mass immigration began that got, to a certain extent but not completely, lost.

The numbers however were very small compared to today, and numbers are a major factor when it comes to cultural assimilation. Hence the better integration in places where they were small for a long time. Add the outright rewards they get for subscribing to the identity of "Hispanic", and it's not looking good when it comes to large scale assimilation.

 

[Deleted member 1]

The numbers however were very small compared to today, and numbers are a major factor when it comes to cultural assimilation. Hence the better integration in places where they were small for a long time. Add the outright rewards they get for subscribing to the identity of "Hispanic", and it's not looking good when it comes to large scale assimilation.

Oh, I know it’s not. That’s why we will be stuck negotiating.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Oh, I know it’s not. That’s why we will be stuck negotiating.

There's the option of crushing the groups the same way it was done with the german minority during the first and second world war. But as they were white whereas this groups are minorities, it would be terrible optics.

 

[Terthna]

There's the option of crushing the groups the same way it was done with the german minority during the first and second world war. But as they were white whereas this groups are minorities, it would be terrible optics.

I suspect that people will soon cease to worry about the "optics", and will just do whatever it takes to get rid of them. This is the future the leftist have created by weaponizing empathy and compassion; because I feel like we're about to enter a "Then Let Me Be Evil" scenario, where the left will be robbed of its power, by people embracing the accusations that were supposed to bring them to heel. Everyone will be racists, sexists, whateverists, and nobody will care.

 

[MementoMori]

@Terthna It also does't help when the Left not only burned bridges, thus dooming them to a position of no compromise. They are also burning all the goodwill that people have for their position.

I used to care a lot about the environment, but I could only take so much disdain from them for not being perfect that i say Fuck It.

If the world is doomed anyway then let it die. It also doesn't help that they are either hypocrites or short-sighted (the innumerable amount of NGOs trafficking illegal aliens to Europe).

 

[Deleted member 1]

I suspect that people will soon cease to worry about the "optics", and will just do whatever it takes to get rid of them. This is the future the leftist have created by weaponizing empathy and compassion; because I feel like we're about to enter a "Then Let Me Be Evil" scenario, where the left will be robbed of its power, by people embracing the accusations that were supposed to bring them to heel. Everyone will be racists, sexists, whateverists, and nobody will care.

For example, what I like to say in the United States is that the left has reintroduced tribal politics, and forgotten that with each tribe voting for its own interests, for decades to come, the White Tribe will still be the Biggest Tribe; once you unleash this process you do not control the ending.