Examining Colonialism

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Jokerius Prime
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A low IQ people that for most of history were basically living in mud holes reverted back to that state when a higher IQ more advanced people left? Imagine my shock.
All of our ancestors used to live in shitty housing.

Considering human stupidity from people seen in the West I'm not sure if it's IQ and more due to bad habits of their culture while following the tribal mentality that can make Arab armies shit.

I honestly wonder for all the claims of unity, will people go back to killing each other for usual reasons like resources now that their colonial overlords left? In South Africa I remember a man squeezing someones eyes out in public while nobody interfered in a xenophobic attack over bad employment conditions.

Naturally it wasn't appreciated.

Yemen's a fun one when I look at what South Yemen had before.
 
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Jokerius Prime
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Here's an example of this legal colonialism through legal migration I found. Portuguese going to Mozambique a former colony of theirs to make a living when back home things are shit. The locals didn't like that.

 

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Jokerius Prime
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Which one? The bantus killing, conquering and raping thier way across Africa. Is at least as bad as anything the Euros did. I'd imagine thier were various conquests before them to. So which set of colonialism shouldn't have happened?
You just made me realise something. Whatever fancy word is said like this colonialism shit it comes down to migration at the biological level.

Both animal and human migration have their quirks but it all comes down to resources in the end. The European Empires in the end were simply repeating what their ancestors did to their other ancestor during the Barbarian Invasions, Roman expansion and even before that.
 

LordsFire

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Colonialism is an extremely complicated issue. Making a land-grab for simple greed is not moral.

Leaving the nations in a far more prosperous state when you withdraw is a moral thing to do.

Blaming people who had conquered your nation for problems that crop up as they pull out is reasonable.

Blaming them for everything that goes wrong in your nation sixty years later is not reasonable.


I'd absolutely say that the meme of 'colonialism is one of the greatest of all sins' has grown way out of proportion, and is definitely more lie and excuse than truth at this point. When the leftist academia and SJW types start criticizing Islam for its colonization of Africa, Anatolia, Persia, the Indian subcontinent, and SE Asia, I'll give them more credence.
 

Lanmandragon

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All of our ancestors used to live in shitty housing.

Considering human stupidity from people seen in the West I'm not sure if it's IQ and more due to bad habits of their culture while following the tribal mentality that can make Arab armies shit.

I honestly wonder for all the claims of unity, will people go back to killing each other for usual reasons like resources now that their colonial overlords left? In South Africa I remember a man squeezing someones eyes out in public while nobody interfered in a xenophobic attack over bad employment conditions.

Naturally it wasn't appreciated.

Yemen's a fun one when I look at what South Yemen had before.
These places need to be allowed that violence. This is how society's advance it's not like Europe just had the enlightment. It was preceeded by millennia of warfare and destruction. People as a group cannot be taught to he civilized. They must come to this conclusion on thier own through blood and fire.
 

CarlManvers2019

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These places need to be allowed that violence. This is how society's advance it's not like Europe just had the enlightment. It was preceeded by millennia of warfare and destruction. People as a group cannot be taught to he civilized. They must come to this conclusion on thier own through blood and fire.
Any chance you read Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers?

“Man has no moral instinct. He is not born with moral sense. You were not born with it, I was not - and a puppy has none. We acquire moral sense, when we do, through training, experience, and hard sweat of the mind.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations. . . . A scientifically verifiable theory of morals must be rooted in the individual's instinct to survive--and nowhere else!--and must correctly describe the hierarchy of survival, note the motivations at each level, and resolve all conflicts.
We have such a theory now; we can solve any moral problem, on any level. Self-interest, love of family, duty to country, responsibility toward the human race . . . .
The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the same relation to group that self-interest has to individual.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Because what you just said, sounds a LOT like his work
 

Lanmandragon

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Any chance you read Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers?

“Man has no moral instinct. He is not born with moral sense. You were not born with it, I was not - and a puppy has none. We acquire moral sense, when we do, through training, experience, and hard sweat of the mind.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations. . . . A scientifically verifiable theory of morals must be rooted in the individual's instinct to survive--and nowhere else!--and must correctly describe the hierarchy of survival, note the motivations at each level, and resolve all conflicts.
We have such a theory now; we can solve any moral problem, on any level. Self-interest, love of family, duty to country, responsibility toward the human race . . . .
The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the same relation to group that self-interest has to individual.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Because what you just said, sounds a LOT like his work
Yes but I come ttoy conclusion based in Historical knowledge not heinlins work.
 

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Jokerius Prime
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Making a land-grab for simple greed is not moral.
Regardless of morality, I feel if someone wishes to take what they want and is able to get away with it they will do it. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must like the Mellian dialogue which keeps changing like a musical chair. One minute you're strong and can dictate what you please and then suddenly you're weak and the tables have turned.

These places need to be allowed that violence. This is how society's advance it's not like Europe just had the enlightment. It was preceeded by millennia of warfare and destruction. People as a group cannot be taught to he civilized. They must come to this conclusion on thier own through blood and fire.
With the world connnected as it is, it's not that easy to do for any wannabe neo imperialist. Still just like good old Bill someone can let a genocide or two continue if a country so chooses to start killing each other.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Regardless of morality, I feel if someone wishes to take what they want and is able to get away with it they will do it. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must like the Mellian dialogue which keeps changing like a musical chair. One minute you're strong and can dictate what you please and then suddenly you're weak and the tables have turned.
I think too many people have forgotten about this and actively deny it and it's extended to even making people suicidal-pseudo-pacifists unlikely to defend themselves ahead of time, unwilling to admit that force/violence is what helps keep them owning what they own
 

Lanmandragon

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Honestly all colonialism was is a particularly lopsided conquest. Human beings wage wars of conquest as a matter of course. Hell the one and only reason it isn't still publically done is nukes. Even then both China and Russia are actively if quitley conquering.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Honestly all colonialism was is a particularly lopsided conquest. Human beings wage wars of conquest as a matter of course. Hell the one and only reason it isn't still publically done is nukes. Even then both China and Russia are actively if quitley conquering.
One of the things I was taught in school regarding colonialism, was the colony simply put NOT being truly part of the nation itself

Just being something to tax and get resources from

Hell, from what I recall, my country’s national hero actually wanted political reform and maybe for the Philippines to have more say in Spanish Politics
 

Lanmandragon

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One of the things I was taught in school regarding colonialism, was the colony simply put NOT being truly part of the nation itself

Just being something to tax and get resources from

Hell, from what I recall, my country’s national hero actually wanted political reform and maybe for the Philippines to have more say in Spanish Politics
That's whatan empire is you extract wealth. Sometimes through directly taking it other times through tribute. This is how everyone from the akkadians to the Brits operated. The only thing the Euros did different was scale. Due to extreme tech disparity it's still just conquest.
 

CarlManvers2019

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That's whatan empire is you extract wealth. Sometimes through directly taking it other times through tribute. This is how everyone from the akkadians to the Brits operated. The only thing the Euros did different was scale. Due to extreme tech disparity it's still just conquest.
And there was also the thing of huge distance, will be harder to govern a colony when you have to cross oceans to even get word

Say, you interested in Alternate History? I know a fic involving Cold War-Britain having to deal with itself being sent to the past and the problem in that even its Tories were shocked and against the idea of Imperialism or becoming an Empire and got even more surprised when Native Americans, Africans, British Colonists etc wanted to be annexed
 
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