Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Apparently the very real town of Goodsprings, Nevada which is based off of the starting location in the game had a Fallout themed celebration a few months ago in which over 500 people attended.



Also random fact, the NPC in Goodsprings, Easy Pete, is apparently based off an actual Goodsprings local the Developers met.

Apparently those who organized this even are planning on making it an annual celebration sometime in October.

Local news also covered the event in typical well informed fashion.



The Pioneere Salon which they meet at is apparently typically a Biker Bar. Also fun fact, computer/video gaming became popular just after the year of Our Lord, 1913. Maybe we got Woodrow Wilson to thank for that.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Collection of Energy Weapon feats.


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Jules: "{725}{}{Pistols…'cept they shoot LIGHT. Now, Reno's a city o' lights, but the light THOSE pistols shine can cut a man in two... *swuppp*... (Jules makes slicing motion.) Makes a clean burn 'tween the two halves, it does.}"
The Chosen One: "{726}{}{They shoot light? Do they call the pistols 'laser pistols?'}"
Jules: "{735}{}{Well, uh, I don't really know… I ain't sure what you're talking about. But take my word for it: don't go asking the Salvatores about those pistols. They have this twitchy habit a killing people who're curious.}"
The Chosen One: "{736}{}{By 'laser pistols,' Jules, I mean pistols that emit beams of coherent light. A beam of sufficient wattage - say, several megawatts - could do considerable damage if focused on a target for a few seconds, producing the effect you've described.}"

I told him to put it down. He didn't. I told him it was an order. He didn't respond. We drew our weapons again and I ordered once more. He stood there and I told my men to approach.

As they surrounded him, some kind of lightning bolt shot from that thing. Turned Feldt into ash. We covered the area in bullets, but when the smoke cleared, the son of a bitch was gone. He couldn't go one circuit without tripping over his shoelaces, but now he can disappear in a flash?
Mary Jane: We're finally home.

Lily: You think the Gunners will let us in?

Mary Jane: By the looks of those laser pistols, probably not.

Lily: On the flip side, they'd probably help us with the cremation. Maybe I should ask them for help.
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Non Military grade lasers not meant for combat do this.
I begged them to leave before the robots got here. They laughed and said they'd take care of the robots, it's me they wanted. Then came the familiar rattle of a Protectron. That got their attention. I soon heard laughter, cursing, and screaming down the hall. I opened the door and stepped outside. A couple of the workers burst around the corner screaming for help. A red laser lashed out from down the hall and severed Tim's right arm in two.
 
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Scooby Doo

Well-known member
You know I think people underestimate Caesar's Legion a bit.


Most people think they don't use guns but the actual quote says they don't want to over-rely on guns which is a testament to how important their melee and unarmed training is.

It is true that they don't outfit their recruits with guns but that's because they're apparently designated to be cannon fodder and are usually indoctrinated slaves or tribals.

And if the captured Centurion is anything to say apparently they can kill several times their own in NCR with just melee (I doubt Centurions would make a habit of lying because lying to Caesar would get you killed and you can get that rank by getting high amounts of kills)

The problem relies in that the Legions tactics are not sustainable for long term campaigns and rely heavily on captured slaves to replenish their numbers, so High losses to Kills followed by no Slaves to capture would substantially limit their ability to project power. (Not including their over reliance on trading for firearms since they have no industry to produce their own, or their primary means of travel being on foot and the restrictions to medicine and useless armor)

Their primary strengths believe it or not is their indoctrination and ability to promote fear, with their indoctrination it allows the ability for long term infiltration and sabotage which could allow other wise disastrous campaigns into clean victories and we know their indoctrination is so good that they're willing to throw themselves on mines to clear a path (So suicidal level devotion) but it has its limits (Ex-Caesar Legion members and Terrifying Presence shows us this)


Then we get to the fear which is best shown in the case of Nipton, the citizens of the town outnumbered them and could have easily taken them out had they choose to fight back. Their crucifixion motto gives them a reputation that causes the poorly disciplined to surrender or run away making small skirmishes uncommon.

This of course is not too effective against a peer power or well disciplined force. Their 3rd greatest strength would be their numbers since they force conscription on their own population and that of captured enemies they can reasonably replenish their numbers over time.



By my estimates they would outnumber the NCR (At least 2:1) and based on quotes from the Brotherhood and NCR during the Battle of Helios.


Brotherhood numbers should be between 40 (There is at least 28 beds in the Bunkers) to 80.

Brotherhood numbers stated that there is now 5x the troops in the Mojave than there was when they fought.

Brotherhood said there was more NCR than they had ammo.

NCR forces outnumbered Brotherhood 15:1 or 20:1

Minimum is 600 Helios and 3,000 by Second Battle for Hoover Dam

Maximum is 1,600 Helios and 8,000 by Second Battle for Hoover Dam.

These numbers seem to be a fair amount considering they can eat 1,000 losses a year but still maintain a presence strong enough no faction could immediately overrun them.


Now not every NCR Soldier would be at the dam but the bulk or majority should be considering how everyone is complaining about resources and "real" fighting forces are being directed there.

So let's say 60% of the NCR was there. That's putting 1,800 to 4,800 forces there with the rest spread out across New Vegas in their outposts and garrisons.


In turn Caesar's Mojave force by scaling should be between 3,600 to 9,600. Respectable sizes I think.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Leaping into battle with a spear or machete gladius seems more effective then having to melee someone with a Service Rifle that can't even mount a bayonent so that should be unsurprising that the Legion are more capable in melee. I was kind of bummed at the lack of variety in NCR Troopers. It's almost all just boring troopers with Service Rifles until the end of the game when they pop up with Carbines at the final battle (but so do Legionaires) or therabouts. And you have random NCR Officers with 9mm or 10mm pistols. But outside of First Recon and NCR Heavy Troopers, there's no like "NCR Sergeants" or veteran NCR Trooper type of deals while the Legion and Rangers (who are distinct from the NCR Army) have various levels and ranks and the like.

That the Legion has an advantage was also made somewhat clear when Dead Sea bragged how he captured Nelson from the NCR despite being outnumbered two to one. The Legion seem to be really good at small skirmishes and assaults of that sort. Which makes sense considering as the attacker, they can pick and choose where to strike and with what forces. That's what they did at Nipton and Nelson and in using a dirty bomb at Camp Searchlight plus all of the convoys and whatever they ambush. They were even able to project forces into Hopeville somehow. They're just better than the NCR Army at this low intensity warfare.

The Legion has further advantages in being de facto allied with the Jackals, Vipers, Fiends and without Courier intervention the Khans as well. Oh and the Omertas... good golly. Fiends alone seemed to be tying up a lot of resources just from existing. First Recon and lots of rangers and NCR forces were deployed well away from the Colorado River to deal with them.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Source? I have never heard anything in Fallout 4 or 76 which has explicitly stated that was the outcome of Hoover Dam.
Obsidian and Bethesda both have said Yes Man is canon.
As for who controls tje dam.
We can base off of the fact that Ceasers Legion isn't wide spread psst that in what we know of from other DLC wither.

So. Yes man is canon ending.
Legion ww can assess to not be the winners if the dam based off of what would happen if they did
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Obsidian and Bethesda both have said Yes Man is canon.
As for who controls tje dam.
We can base off of the fact that Ceasers Legion isn't wide spread psst that in what we know of from other DLC wither.

So. Yes man is canon ending.
Legion ww can assess to not be the winners if the dam based off of what would happen if they did
Tbf Caesar's Legion never expressed interest traveling East only West so the lack of them in FO4 doesn't mean much.

Anyway do you have a reference from the creators on Yes Man being canon?
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Tbf Caesar's Legion never expressed interest traveling East only West so the lack of them in FO4 doesn't mean much.

Anyway do you have a reference from the creators on Yes Man being canon?
I honestly.just saw it in a forum post.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Ha!

Source wasn't hard to find at all lol.


I see their evidence. Circumstantial the vast majority but I could agree that it might make the most sense from a lore present and future perspective.
True but if we take the theory as fact it solidifies that without the Securitrons the NCR would have lost.

Since a Yes Man ending would imply the Courier hardly did any NCR quests.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
True but if we take the theory as fact it solidifies that without the Securitrons the NCR would have lost.

Since a Yes Man ending would imply the Courier hardly did any NCR quests.

Yeah. I think in general the Courier not existing basically presupposes a Legion victory in the base game. They'd overrun the NCR and The Strip, though there are allusions that in the long term of course, with Caeser's inevitable demise, Lanius may not be able to keep the Legion together, at least with the same success.

The NCR and any Independent Vegas option though does have a fair bit of dual purpose though. For many of the factions (Khans, Boomers, Omertas, Fiends etc) dealing with them is fairly similar regardless of who the Courier is favoring, NCR or an Independent Vegas of one flavor or another.

A Yes Man Independent Vegas with no upgraded Securitrons does seem very unlikely on the face of it though. Even with the winning cards, it states that without upgraded Securitrons its hard for them to maintain order in Vegas, much less the rest of the Mojave one would assume. And both the Legion and NCR didn't seem to think that after they dealt with the other primary foe that unupgraded Securitrons (even with the backing of the families) would be much of an impediment to their eventual conquest of Vegas and the Strip. Even House seemed to see that.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
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Interesting so the ratio of NCR Troopers to Rangers is pretty big. We also get confirmation that the NCR was losing at least 1,000 soldiers (He actually says Over 1,000)

So testament to the calc of them fielding several thousand , altho this does also imply there aren't more than maybe a couple hundred rangers throughout the entire campaign which explains why the first Battle of Hoover dam was considered "Heavy Casualties"

It's probably heavy casualties for the Rangers, you lose close to a hundred special forces operatives in a battle and you'd consider that pretty heavy considering how few would be present at the time.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Imo I don't think most people understand the Institute from Fallout 4 because of the incoherent writing.


They're "Badguys" but in the sense that whoever is the Director is the one calling the shots and toes everyone in line with fear.


They have the potential for good, and they actually have an original goal in mind during the events of FO4.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
I never got a really good reason why the Institute abducted, killed and replaced people. I got reasons why they did but none of them really convinced me that post abortion assistance was needed for my family.

The Railroad was basically a single issue organization and this inherently shallow. They're like the BoS or Khans in New Vegas. The AtomPunks were more interesting. The Railroad isn't a rival to BoS or the Commonwealth. If anything you'd be convincing them to ally with one or the other or stay independent or some shit. Or take them over with greater purpose.

The Commonwealth seemed like the best bet to me but they weren't too well developed either. And a problem with a lot of the factions is your made out to be their leader and as the leader of the mighty Institute or reforged Commonwealth Minutemen your still a gofer and shoe shine girl doing fetch and murder quests.

Preston Garvey should be the leader of the Minutemen. It's so ham fistedly obvious. A Minutemen quest line would logically have you inspire Preston Garvey to be the General he doesn't realize he is. Not him making you General and literally telling you what to do like some annoying brat who thinks he knows everything because he didn't get spanked enough as a kid.

And a lot of the conflict is too binary. It's like they took the NCR-Legion thing and applied it to put factions like the BoS and Minutemen at odds with each other when it's like... You don't have to throw General Oliver over the Dam anymore then you have to blow up the Prydwen. Nuclear option indeed (I mean you don't have to but it's kinda weird regardless to me).

Maybe take some inspiration from earlier games where it's not so sanitized. Maybe you have options to push out, not destroy the Brotherhood or properly vassalize the Minutemen of you abandon the Garvey plotline for the BoS. And maybe have those same options with the Institute. I dunno. Could have a lot of fun with the underutilized ending screens and still have a post game. :p
 
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Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Yeah the Institutes deal is they have a lot of smart men with huge egos.

So the Institute's actions are more a combination of xenophobia and being so full of themselves that they are rarely willing to acknowledge when something is a bad idea.


Like when Virgil told Shaun creating Supermutants was stupid and a waste of resources but Shaun is like "CONTINUE DAMMIT!!!"


Basically just corruption and people not being put in their place, put someone like Donald Trump involved and the Institute would be a great faction since he'd drain the swamp 😂
 

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