Finland's and Sweden's NATO accession following thread.
- Thread starter Tyzuris
- Start date
We kicked Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait back in 1990-1991 in order to protect our oil supplies, after all.
The world has become a smaller place over the last 50 years of technological advancement. 50 years ago you could even say the same about places like Portugal or Canada being in NATO - after all, they were really far away from Soviets, and a war with them may be not so certain to involve them at all.
Now, with the modern airforces, tech trade, potential space warfare, missiles, internet, the "it's too far away from us" line of thinking is weaker than ever, at least where China is concerned.
They may not want to be involved in that conflict, but the conflict will want to involve them regardless, one way or another - we all know China is just dickish enough to do that kind of stuff.
Czech Republic eyes exit from China’s 16+1 investment club
Citing ‘unfulfilled expectations’, Prague considers leaving China’s 16+1 investment club for Central and Eastern Europe.
In an Uneven Fight With China, a Tiny Country’s Brand Becomes Toxic (Published 2022)
After Lithuania dared to seek closer ties with Taiwan, China cut off trade — even blocking imports of products from other countries with Lithuanian parts.
We don't need their oil. We have shale oil. We've been self-sufficient for years now. Only Biden's recent mental retardation in Ukraine has caused oil prices to skyrocket as hard as they have. Hell, we could get more from Canada too, if we wanted.
I absolutely disagree. Weapon technology and communications have increased our reach, but it hasn't altered our geography in a significant way. If China were to weaponize say, the internet, to attack our infrastructure, we can literally just severe the cabal links that connects them to the rest of the world. Countries like Russia and Egypt already have an inverse in place; cutting themselves off from the web to isolate dissidents.
China lacks the projection power to threaten anyone besides its immediate neighbors and regardless of the current fashion of lone-wolf diplomacy, China is not an irrational actor.
Never hurts to have extra security, you know?
The world has become a smaller place over the last 50 years of technological advancement. 50 years ago you could even say the same about places like Portugal or Canada being in NATO - after all, they were really far away from Soviets, and a war with them may be not so certain to involve them at all.
Now, with the modern airforces, tech trade, potential space warfare, missiles, internet, the "it's too far away from us" line of thinking is weaker than ever, at least where China is concerned.
They may not want to be involved in that conflict, but the conflict will want to involve them regardless, one way or another - we all know China is just dickish enough to do that kind of stuff.
Czech Republic eyes exit from China’s 16+1 investment club
Citing ‘unfulfilled expectations’, Prague considers leaving China’s 16+1 investment club for Central and Eastern Europe.www.aljazeera.com
In an Uneven Fight With China, a Tiny Country’s Brand Becomes Toxic (Published 2022)
After Lithuania dared to seek closer ties with Taiwan, China cut off trade — even blocking imports of products from other countries with Lithuanian parts.www.nytimes.com
Canada isn't that far from Russia/the former Soviet Union, specifically in the Arctic. You don't know what kinds of genetically engineered polar bears the Russians could send to attack the Canucks, after all, lol!
I disagree. If the ME was a reasonable place, sure. It is not. It's a fucking hell hole. We have more than enough oil. Our current problem is our politicians who decided they wanted to get in an economic war with Russia over Ukraine (of all places). That is actually doing more damage than what is happening to Ukraine. In one war, we've removed two some of the largest wheat exporters in the world.
Canada isn't that far from Russia/the former Soviet Union, specifically in the Arctic. You don't know what kinds of genetically engineered polar bears the Russians could send to attack the Canucks, after all, lol!
While true and if global warming continues as "expected", that is something we need to consider, but keep in mind that by then, Russia will probably a fraction of what it is now, if indeed they survive at all.
Russia demanded that the West end all military cooperation with Ukraine and put a permanent end to all NATO expansion. The West considered these to be unreasonable demands, as evidenced by the West now strongly militarily cooperating with Ukraine and welcoming both Finland and Sweden into NATO.
I like how NATO's position relative to Russia is strongest on the northern front relative to the southern front:
On the southern front, Russia still has a wide buffer so far. Well, on the southern front in Europe. The Caucasus don't count since the southern part of them is not in Europe.
Russia's weaker position in the north relative to its western rivals was also evidenced during Operation Barbarossa, when Nazi Germany's advances were faster in the north than in the south:
History repeats itself!
On the southern front, Russia still has a wide buffer so far. Well, on the southern front in Europe. The Caucasus don't count since the southern part of them is not in Europe.
Russia's weaker position in the north relative to its western rivals was also evidenced during Operation Barbarossa, when Nazi Germany's advances were faster in the north than in the south:
History repeats itself!
And what's your point?
That Ukraine had a right to refuse the Russian demands, as did the West.
What does that have to do with the Middle East?
As for your actual response, yes they did have a right to refuse. And so Biden has plunged Africa and the Middle East into famine. Are we supposed to clap now?
No, Russia did.
King Arts
Well-known member
No Biden did the one who was pushing all the sanctions.
In response to Russia invading Ukraine.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
The sanctions aren't what has disrupted shipments of grain out of Ukraine. That'd be the war itself.
No, it was Biden.
First, the sanctions are choking off Russian exports. There's really no threat to Russian wheat exports, if I'm not mistaken. It's simply that the West will refuse to let them trade with the rest of the world. That is a choice the Biden Admin made.
Second, the Biden Admin miscalculated. They did not expect the Ukrainians to overperform and they had not expected the Russians to underperform so badly. So a war that should have lasted a month or two at the latest has instead turned into a long grueling war.
Third, the Biden Admin is not seeking to end this war one way or another (though I doubt Russia would accept anything reasonable now), because they're afraid how desperate Russia might get if it ever comes into contact with a NATO country. They're afraid that nuclear weapons will be on the table. Therefore, they are seeking to bleed the Russians dry.
The result of this is...
1) Ukraine will be utterly wrecked. Even if the Russians lose, they are going to destroy as much of Ukraine as possible with every artillery, missile, and rocket that they have in their arsenal.
2) Between the loss of Ukrainian wheat and Russian wheat, there will be widespread famine across the Middle East and Africa. We're talking civil wars, mass migration, and mass death.
EDIT -- Actually, wheat is one of the few things we haven't sanctioned to hell and back, which has allowed the Russians to take advantage of skyrocketing prices...as well as sell stolen Ukrainian wheat. So that is some relief. Still, the loss of the bulk of Ukraine's crop is still going to cause famine and wide-spread hunger.
3) Agricultural nations like Brazil are going to face shortages of the fertilizer that they need for production, which will lower yields and further deepen the famine problem across the world.
Whereas, if NATO had agreed not to let Ukraine into its membership (and there was really no reason to let Ukraine in anyway) and Ukraine had been sensible about its actual strength (but was not, because it thought that it had the aegis of the West), then Ukraine would have most probably of remained under the thumb of Russia or at the worst, become a puppet state. Which is no huge loss, considering how laughably corrupt Ukraine is.
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Buba
A total creep
Middle East?
Yup, let the locals murder one another. The USA needs to care because?
Oil? The USA is self sufficient - more or less. Its so-called allies? Well, it is their problem ... maybe they should frack more ... definitely not a NATO problem. Wasn't there some sort of "Eurpean Defence Initiative"? Oh noes, the stupid fucks starved their militaries of funds to point of irrelevance. Oh, how tragic. Let me play the world's saddest tune ...
Yup, let the locals murder one another. The USA needs to care because?
Oil? The USA is self sufficient - more or less. Its so-called allies? Well, it is their problem ... maybe they should frack more ... definitely not a NATO problem. Wasn't there some sort of "Eurpean Defence Initiative"? Oh noes, the stupid fucks starved their militaries of funds to point of irrelevance. Oh, how tragic. Let me play the world's saddest tune ...
The Ukrainian grain, yes.
From what I understand, fracking isn't all that easy to get to and the best places to do it are off the top of my head, the US, China, and Russia. The latter two lack the technological sophistication and experience to actually tap into it and even if they started today, it would probably take 10-20 years before it got any real yields. And it's not like Russia really needs it at the moment.
What Europe should be doing is trying to restore their military capability so THEY can deal with the Middle East. Because it's not our problem anymore. France is actually probably going to be fine, since they have some West African countries that are basically part of a hidden Neo-French Empire that has yet to awaken. Once shit hits the fan, you can expect France to change the way it does business.
But apart from them and MAYBE the Brits, all of Europe simply lacks projection power.
sad thing is they litterally did it to themselves.