Which is currently happening without the need for NATO to get pulled into actively participating in a shooting war.
Finland's and Sweden's NATO accession following thread.
- Thread starter Tyzuris
- Start date
What about after the end of the war?
There are so many ways this war could end...it'll have to depend on conditions.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
I'd be happy for Ukraine to join after they finish kicking Russia out of their territory.
However, in the meantime the rules are clear. You can't join unless you actually have control of your own territory.
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Pulling hard for the Ukrainians 100%
More likely, the situation with Kurds on Syria border is escalating currently, while Turks demanding that have hit the wall of Sweden's leftist-liberal policies on asylum, nevermind influence of left wing pro-Kurd lobby.
One thing quite indicative of how much of a complicated situation this is rather than "Erdogan is just being a shithead again" is that no one is saying openly what exactly those unacceptable demands were and why Sweden can't meet them, despite Sweden's political culture usually liking to be transparent about such things.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Once again, the Turks prove themselves to be treacherous vipers. Once again, the usual suspects are insanely eager to shill for the Turks. No amount of evidence that the Turks are our enemies would or could ever be enough for some people to stop bending over for Erdogan...
Anyway, kick Turkey out of NATO today. Should've done it long ago. And after that, round up their shills and apologists, strip them of any NATO nationality them may posses, and evict them to Turkey. That they may be happy there, sucking Erdogan's cock.
Anyway, kick Turkey out of NATO today. Should've done it long ago. And after that, round up their shills and apologists, strip them of any NATO nationality them may posses, and evict them to Turkey. That they may be happy there, sucking Erdogan's cock.
Turks have the Bosfor and a large army defending it.
That's their value in NATO.
They also have a genuine problem with Kurds, it's not some "Turk shill" fantasy, EU and USA officially agree that this is a problem.
The fact that you are so eager to ignore these two very basic facts so casually makes *YOU* one of the treacherous vipers you plot against.
I take it you will be in the vanguard divisions for taking the Bosfor from the Turks and whatever allies they manage to arrange, or alternatively, cheer as Russia is now allowed to sail ships through it.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Threadban: Rule violations for 2B, 2C and 2E this type of behavior towards another member is unacceptable you aren't required to agree, but you are required to talk with others as you yourself would expect to be treated. Please do not do this again.
We've been over this. Do cease your mumbled treason-talk; I can't really make it out anyway, because Erdogan's cock is lodged so deeply in your throat.
Truly, you belong among the Turks. Go there, and live among your viper-kin! I'll be happy to wave you off as you depart. Because as I also argue about the matter of the Turks in NATO: it is imperative to remove a hostile fifth column from within our walls. And you, Marduk, are without question a fifth columnist. You may not even know it--your arguments are so warped that it's impossible to tell if you're a willing traitor or just a "useful idiot"--but you serve the enemy, and that is bad no matter what motives inform the act.
Your whole shameful routine of self-debasement at Erdogan's feet would be laughable, if it weren't so dangerous. "They have the Bosphoros!" you shriek, like a hysterical eunuch, all the while sounding exactly like the spineless cowards who whined for years and years that we had to respect Putin, because "he has the gas pipelines!"
So, once more, I'll give you a variation on the same advice that I've always given Putin's little serfs: if you're hell-bent on kneeling for the Turks, then go to Turkey and do it in person.
The Turks may be 'allies', but Erdogan and the Islamists he reps are a rather open and proud fifth column inside NATO.
And with the Moskva gone, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is hardly worth the allying with the Turks to bottle up anymore.
Face it, Turkey is trying to play NATO against itself for their own ends, and is perfectly fine acting as the mediator for Putin.
As well, the Bosphorous wouldn't be an issue if we helped Greece retake Constantinople and remove the Turks from the lands they stole from Greece.
If the United States gave just 1% of the aid they gave Ukraine to the Byzantine Empire after Manzikert this never would've happened
But nooo you were all like "Durr Byzantium Corrupt!" "Seljuk Turks so Trad!" "Greeks are Roman Supremacists/Hate the West." "No Turk Called me a Frankish Nazi!"
But nooo you were all like "Durr Byzantium Corrupt!" "Seljuk Turks so Trad!" "Greeks are Roman Supremacists/Hate the West." "No Turk Called me a Frankish Nazi!"
If you read up history a bit, it turns out Turkey's current stance on the Kurd issue is older than Erdogan's reign, and more likely than not will outlive him.
Currently it's more about moving ships the other way and supply lines.
Turkey is playing everyone for own ends, including Putin.
That's less realistic than NATO invasion of Iran.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
If you replace "the United States" with "the Latins", it's scarily close to accurate...
If you replace "the United States" with "the Latins", it's scarily close to accurate...
The Latins did help Byzantium out a lot afterwards. That's what the First Crusade was about, after all.
Somewhat off-topic, but it's quite interesting that Turkey plans to celebrate the 1,000th anniversary of Manzikert several decades from now:
Battle of Manzikert - Wikipedia
If I'll still be here by then (I really do hope so!), I'll be 79 at that point in time.
49ersfootball
Well-known member
Any new developments on Sweden & Finland officially joining NATO because last I checked, Turkey was blocking both countries from joining.
You do know the US also considers the Kurds as bad too right? We only did a nice thing for them to fight ISIS. We will leave them for dry.
You do know Turkey has one of the biggest militaries in that area. We could invade snd destroy them, but Turkey having control over the straight and not being in NATO is a horrible thing.
Because they could basically starve half the world after the conflict if we kick them out until they get thier demands met.
Which would most likely include Cyprus becoming Turkey and losing its independence.
Welcome to the real world. Things arnt black and white.
Turkey is horrible yes, but I for sure would rather watch Turkey do the fighting in the middle east then US troops....
Skallagrim
Well-known member
1. I said nothing about Kurds. Whenever someone criticises the Turks, somehow there's always this absurd "but the Kurds!" response. Senseless whataboutism, since I never mentioned Kurds. My gripe is that the Turks deliberately under-mine NATO, consistently double-deal, always conspire with our enemies, and are not just untrustworthy but actively hostile in their intent towards us. We are faced with an unpredictable Russian despot with nukes at his avail, and we have a chance to strengthen our common defensive alliance. Turkey, ostensibly a member of that alliance, is deliberately harming our interests. Not only that, but after NATO cucked to their demands, they do it twice over and demand more. That's the act of an enemy.
2. The Bosphoros doesn't control half the world's food supply. I'm not sure if you noticed, but it's a pretty big world. Regardless, as far as food is concerned, my position is the same as with energy: you should provide for yourself. A country that fails to do this deserves the famines and the black-outs. Someone who makes himself dependent on Turks deserves even worse.
3. At the end of the day, things are black and white. They're just muddled until matters come to a head, and then they resolve into stark clarity. The relativists may whine, but who cares about their opinions? We're not a bunch of fucking post-modernists, are we?
4. You'd rather watch Turkey do the fighting? They're never fighting for you! Even now, they double-deal at the very best of times. More often, they just blackmail and backstab. You don't want US troops to be wasted? You'll live to see the day that US troops have to fight the Turks. They are an enemy of the West. The sooner we understand this, and act like it, the better our position will be in the inevitable conflict.
5. Ultimately, every argument about Turkey being "needed" is the exact same argument that was used about Russia being "needed". We don't need Russia. In fact, when that matter resolved into black-and-white clarity for most everyone (over the course of the last year), dependency on Russia was cut back right quick, and lefty eco-bullshit was cut back along with it. Nuclear reactors are back in the programme of Europe, energy-independence is considered important again. Now apply those same lessons to our relation with Turkey, please. We don't need them. We've put ourselves in a position of dependency, but we can get out of that position, too. And we'll be all the stronger for it.
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49ersfootball
Well-known member
Basically if you want to join NATO, you'll have to get Turkey's permission & that means saying to the Kurds: "Goodbye Felicia".
King Arts
Well-known member
Ok I want to ask you about one. How are the Turks undermined NATO by not allowing the Swedes in? What makes the Swedes so good and important that they will benefit every other NATO power? There is only one nation in NATO that keeping it in helps everyone else in the alliance and that’s America. Here is the thing letting someone in NATO means we now have to defend them as if they were us. If Russia attacked America or the UK or Germany then we have to attack them back even if it results in nuclear war. If Russia invaded Kazakhstan I don’t give a fuck and don’t want to die in nuclear fire because of Kazakhstan. So tell me why we should die to protect Swedes? No if anyone is betraying a NATO ally it would be the Swedes wanting to keep supporting the Kurds. Tell me why would a conservative be so favorably to Sweden the liberal capital of Europe is it because they are blonde haired blue eyed aryans or something, do you actually think the Swedish liberal way is best.