Five minutes of hate news

[bintananth]

Oh, hey. Sorta not really on topic but I've already made the statement and there were the weird food futurist links so that I already commented to. So maybe it is on topic, if only for a brief moment.

Did some more research. Caloric density per acre is actually beaten out by Maize (Corn, which is actually a word that means 'dominant grain in the area'). By alot. Potatoes is ~6 million Calories, and corn is something like ~15 million Calories.

To be clear a Calorie is a kilocalorie. 1 million calories is about half the "recommended" 2,000 Calories a day. 1 million Calories is ~2.7k Calories a day. So going by my sources an acre of potatoes, by itself, will feed 8 people, for a Y E A R, at 2k Calories a day. With high nutritional values.

Though I'll admit in my research the average calories per acre is actually pretty inconsistent, but that's probably due to yearly variance in harvests. I've seen 15-17 million Calories for potatoes. Corn highs seems to blow past everyone, but can have dogshit numbers too in bad years, since I saw a corn number of only 13 million. (Consistently Corn>Potatoes in terms of Calories though) Rice comes in at about 11 million Calories per acre, but is nutritionally worse than potatoes and seems to be harder to grow, further typically requiring vastly more water.

Corn ekes out ahead on nutrition as well(Like potatoes win here and there but for the most part corn is a little bit better), and corn stalks can be used as construction materials. Further corn is in the ballpark of 1250% more fatty/oily than potatoes, which is why you can make biodiesel from it and if you can make that, you can make biopolymers.

Though potatoes will fucking grow just about anywhere and as a tuber are much less susceptible to disease (though Irish Potato Famine was a thing) and other environmental effects. Plus, if you box raise potatoes you can drastically improve their Cal/acre rating. What I mean by that is a say 2x2x1 box full of dirt, and every time the leaves get to about six inches, bury them. This causes the leaves to grow further up, and more potatoes to grow.

In a commercial terrestrial greenhouse, potatoes are potentially better, for just food. But under controlled conditions, the biggest upset for Corn numbers, Corn might be insanely good.

You can make bread out of both, by the way. And potatoes are super easy to flavor.

For the futurists among us, we need to figure out how to commercially grow corn and potatoes in a -ponics set up. Biopolymers are definitely something I think needs to be explored more. And biodiesel is closest to something actually renewable for a power source. If only because it'd be easier for things like arcologies and planetary colonies to be self sufficient.

Fuck Soy Beans and their products. The amount of post harvest effort you need to get things like tofu is unreal.

But now, go forth, in these answers I have confidence. New World staple crops of potatoes and corn are the best, potatoes being more stable a food crop and corn having more varied uses beyond food with higher theoretical yields. Anyone who hits you up with soy or algae or anything like that? Smack them.

Typically, traditional animals produce far less calories per acre. Beef cows, for instance are about 1.2 million Calories per acre, yet require fucktons of Calories themselves. A beef takes a lot of acreage. Minicows might be the best beef transition, about a ton in weight and more than double the heads per acre from my previous research.

When it comes to terrestrial meat, Rabbits put out insane numbers. Per pound of food and gallon of water, a meat rabbit will generate something like 8 times the meat that a cow will, on a much, much, much smaller footprint, that you can stack vertically. Though butchering bunches of tiny animals might be more work than one really big one. And rabbit starvation is a thing, it happens when a human doesn't consume enough animal fat. But vegans and vegetarians don't seem to have that problem, probably supplements?

Aquaculture (Fish Farms, particularly modern ones) blow corn and potatoes out of the water. Per acre a salmon farm produces in the ball park of 43 million Calories. There are issues with commercial aquaculture, the fish ones at least bivalves seem to do pretty well, but realistically, that's where we should go before we go to anything like bugs.

Mussels and Oysters seems to have way less problems with how they're commercially grown but that could because being crammed in against each other is how they grow normally.

Aquaponic systems could be developed to work with short stalk corn, that would probably be the greatest thing to do. You'd get fish, typically tilapia but I know a number of other fish species work, and micro greens currently, but a sturdier floatplate could maybe work, with bigger fish tanks.

When it comes to other fish farms, the middle of the ocean is a desert, excess food spilling out into the water would be a lot less negatively impactful out there than only a mile off shore.

So fungal or soy or bug meats? Fuck 'em. People who suggest them are looking for the wrong transitions in food production. If you can swing terrariums for bugs plus a hydro- or more likely since it conserves more water an aeroponics set up, you can manage a aquarium for tilapia and using that water for aeroponic growing of veggies and fruits.

Or inner city vertical farms. Aquaponic and Rabbit setups are probably the most square foot conscious ways to generate meat. And you'd have lots of good nutrients already on site for your vertical green farms, which should consist of, probably kale to start with if going max nutrition, but you should work towards Corn set ups, which might have to require a short stalk, big cob breed. To make the verticality and stacking work.

I'll have to read all of this later ...

I'll say this before I do: a diet of just milk and potatoes is almost nutritionally complete. The only thing missing is Molybedenum. We don't need much more than trace amounts of that.

 

[mrttao]

Did some more research. Caloric density per acre is actually beaten out by Maize (Corn, which is actually a word that means 'dominant grain in the area'). By alot. Potatoes is ~6 million Calories, and corn is something like ~15 million Calories.

funny. first page on my search shows potatos at 17 million and corn at 12. Although I managed to find your sources too that give the 6 and 15 figure. Worth noting that there is huge variance by things like country and individual farm. The average in USA and the average in africa are not the same.

also, worth noting that most of the corn is inedible to humans, I couldn't find a clear answer on those numbers on whether they are counting the shelled corn or the entire corn ears. The inedible portions don't exactly go to waste as they can be used for various things. But they won't be feeding a person.

also worth noting that while livestock fares poorly compared to the above, some like chicken and pigs can be fed entirely on compost / organic trash.

 

[Morphic Tide]

also worth noting that while livestock fares poorly compared to the above, some like chicken and pigs can be fed entirely on compost / organic trash.

This is also the case with fungal meat substitutes, to a much more blatant and thorough extent. If the Greens manage to strong-arm meat out of economic viability, chances are it'll be fungus that's the meat substitute, not soy. VASTLY cheaper and can easily be a superior product since it has real texture to it. Also a cost-effective replacement to a lot of plastic packaging.

 

[Bacle]

This is also the case with fungal meat substitutes, to a much more blatant and thorough extent. If the Greens manage to strong-arm meat out of economic viability, chances are it'll be fungus that's the meat substitute, not soy. VASTLY cheaper and can easily be a superior product since it has real texture to it. Also a cost-effective replacement to a lot of plastic packaging.

Mushroom burgers don't have the estrogen problem un-pickled soy products have.

I expect mushroom growers/farmers are the ones who will be well set going into the future.

There are plenty of people who will eat a mushroom burger that do not want to eat crickets.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

also, worth noting that most of the corn is inedible to humans, I couldn't find a clear answer on those numbers on whether they are counting the shelled corn or the corn earns. The inedible portions don't exactly go to waste as they can be used for various things. But they won't be feeding a person.

Yes, you can use the inedible portions for literal construction materials, among other things. Pretty sure clothes are an option, but I'm not really well versed in Aztec/Mexicah or Mayan clothing traditions.

funny. first page on my search shows potatos at 17 million and corn at 12. Although I managed to find your sources too that give the 6 and 15 figure. Worth noting that there is huge variance by things like country and individual farm. The average in USA and the average in africa are not the same.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I ended up settling on a single source to use. Most of the sources I came across put Corn above Potatoes but the amount changed, and blah blah blah.

Like one source put corn at something like 23 million Calories/acre. My original years ago source put potatoes at the top of the list with 13 million Calories.

So, called it mostly a wash. Chose one to deal with.

It really comes down to potatoes are better in some ways and corn in others. I think that in a plant factory setting(Aeroponics)), we can manage corn better, where in a controlled green house with bare minimum soil management we can manage to boost potatoes. And the Corn has more uses than potatoes, while potatoes have more food options with less work and a wider number of places to grow them without special things, I think.

also, worth noting that most of the corn is inedible to humans, I couldn't find a clear answer on those numbers on whether they are counting the shelled corn or the corn earns. The inedible portions don't exactly go to waste as they can be used for various things. But they won't be feeding a person.

also worth noting that while livestock fares poorly compared to the above, some like chicken and pigs can be fed entirely on compost / organic trash.

With you on that top point. Really wish that we knew. I did assume that it was the edible parts since it's talking about Calories which is edible energy AFAIK and not Jules.

And yeah, you can definitely feed a lot of livestock on the inedible portions of corn. I think the inedible potato portions are poisonous, but that's off the dome no checks.

This is also the case with fungal meat substitutes, to a much more blatant and thorough extent. If the Greens manage to strong-arm meat out of economic viability, chances are it'll be fungus that's the meat substitute, not soy. VASTLY cheaper and can easily be a superior product since it has real texture to it. Also a cost-effective replacement to a lot of plastic packaging.

Mushroom burgers don't have the estrogen problem un-pickled soy products have.

I expect mushroom growers/farmers are the ones who will be well set going into the future.

There are plenty of people who will eat a mushroom burger that do not want to eat crickets.

Fuck Soy and it's products, except soy sauce, because it's only a sauce. Tofu is just so much work. And current commercial soy farms are just as ultimately disagreeable as any other commercial farming venture. I mean, I understand the necessity. Just that current commercial farming methods are pretty ruinous on the landscape.

Fungal substitutes can also easily be gown inside a city in a vertical farm. And there already exist bunches of flavourful varieties and more people are already okay with eating mushrooms. Further, less allergies AFAIK ping off of fungi, less worry about parasites, and less waste from the lack of chitin.

I'm kinda not sold on the fungal plastic replacements, but that's because I know so very little about it. At the same time, it's really going to supplement more than replace, I don't see fungal sutures being a thing, at least for a very long time.

Fuck Soy.

I can only imagine that rich white CCP simps were the ones to push the fuck out of soy products in the early days. The same people pushing crickets now?

 

[Typhonis]

Mushroom Packaging

Mushroom Packaging by Ecovative is a mycelium based packaging alternative to polystyrene and plastics. Economical, compostable and effective.

mushroompackaging.com

Fungal packaging.

 

[mrttao]

With you on that top point. Really wish that we knew. I did assume that it was the edible parts since it's talking about Calories which is edible energy AFAIK and not Jules.

Calories are not actually a measurement of edible energy.
Calorie is the amount of energy needed to raise 1 gram of water by 1 degree celsius. "Food Calorie" is 1000 science calories.
To determine the calorie value of food they dehydrate it and then set it on fire.

Fuck Soy and it's products, except soy sauce, because it's only a sauce. Tofu is just so much work. And current commercial soy farms are just as ultimately disagreeable as any other commercial farming venture. I mean, I understand the necessity. Just that current commercial farming methods are pretty ruinous on the landscape.

The funny thing is, I actually like the taste and texture of tofu... I just hate it when they try to use it as a meat substitute.
I like my tofu served WITH meat. Soup or stir fry, you mix up tofu and chicken together and you get a winning combination.

 

[mrttao]

I can only imagine that rich white CCP simps were the ones to push the fuck out of soy products in the early days. The same people pushing crickets now?

This reminds me a funny story.
Hitler actually pushed soy beans. Hitler Youth manuals from the 1930s refer to soybeans as "nazi beans" and promotes it as a healthy alternative to meat (which is murder! and toxic! - hitler)

 

[Terthna]

The whole movement to find a meat alternative is based on fear mongering, bad assumptions, and a desire to make it so that only the elites of society get to eat real food to being with; so all this talk about finding one that would actually work is missing the forest for the trees. They want to force us to eat bugs, because they want to force us to eat bugs; and they will not be convinced otherwise.

 

[LordsFire]

The last dozen or so posts also haven't addressed the fact that a lot of land which is suitable for livestock grazing, is not suitable for many crops, if any at all.

Further, livestock are a useful part of cyclical farming, depending on what kind of livestock and what kind of crops you're growing.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Oh, hey. Sorta not really on topic but I've already made the statement and there were the weird food futurist links so that I already commented to. So maybe it is on topic, if only for a brief moment.

Did some more research. Caloric density per acre is actually beaten out by Maize (Corn, which is actually a word that means 'dominant grain in the area'). By alot. Potatoes is ~6 million Calories, and corn is something like ~15 million Calories.

To be clear a Calorie is a kilocalorie. 1 million calories is about half the "recommended" 2,000 Calories a day. 1 million Calories is ~2.7k Calories a day. So going by my sources an acre of potatoes, by itself, will feed 8 people, for a Y E A R, at 2k Calories a day. With high nutritional values.

Though I'll admit in my research the average calories per acre is actually pretty inconsistent, but that's probably due to yearly variance in harvests. I've seen 15-17 million Calories for potatoes. Corn highs seems to blow past everyone, but can have dogshit numbers too in bad years, since I saw a corn number of only 13 million. (Consistently Corn>Potatoes in terms of Calories though) Rice comes in at about 11 million Calories per acre, but is nutritionally worse than potatoes and seems to be harder to grow, further typically requiring vastly more water.

Corn ekes out ahead on nutrition as well(Like potatoes win here and there but for the most part corn is a little bit better), and corn stalks can be used as construction materials. Further corn is in the ballpark of 1250% more fatty/oily than potatoes, which is why you can make biodiesel from it and if you can make that, you can make biopolymers.

Though potatoes will fucking grow just about anywhere and as a tuber are much less susceptible to disease (though Irish Potato Famine was a thing) and other environmental effects. Plus, if you box raise potatoes you can drastically improve their Cal/acre rating. What I mean by that is a say 2x2x1 box full of dirt, and every time the leaves get to about six inches, bury them. This causes the leaves to grow further up, and more potatoes to grow.

In a commercial terrestrial greenhouse, potatoes are potentially better, for just food. But under controlled conditions, the biggest upset for Corn numbers, Corn might be insanely good.

You can make bread out of both, by the way. And potatoes are super easy to flavor.

For the futurists among us, we need to figure out how to commercially grow corn and potatoes in a -ponics set up. Biopolymers are definitely something I think needs to be explored more. And biodiesel is closest to something actually renewable for a power source. If only because it'd be easier for things like arcologies and planetary colonies to be self sufficient.

Fuck Soy Beans and their products. The amount of post harvest effort you need to get things like tofu is unreal.

But now, go forth, in these answers I have confidence. New World staple crops of potatoes and corn are the best, potatoes being more stable a food crop and corn having more varied uses beyond food with higher theoretical yields. Anyone who hits you up with soy or algae or anything like that? Smack them.

Typically, traditional animals produce far less calories per acre. Beef cows, for instance are about 1.2 million Calories per acre, yet require fucktons of Calories themselves. A beef takes a lot of acreage. Minicows might be the best beef transition, about a ton in weight and more than double the heads per acre from my previous research.

When it comes to terrestrial meat, Rabbits put out insane numbers. Per pound of food and gallon of water, a meat rabbit will generate something like 8 times the meat that a cow will, on a much, much, much smaller footprint, that you can stack vertically. Though butchering bunches of tiny animals might be more work than one really big one. And rabbit starvation is a thing, it happens when a human doesn't consume enough animal fat. But vegans and vegetarians don't seem to have that problem, probably supplements?

Aquaculture (Fish Farms, particularly modern ones) blow corn and potatoes out of the water. Per acre a salmon farm produces in the ball park of 43 million Calories. There are issues with commercial aquaculture, the fish ones at least bivalves seem to do pretty well, but realistically, that's where we should go before we go to anything like bugs.

Mussels and Oysters seems to have way less problems with how they're commercially grown but that could because being crammed in against each other is how they grow normally.

Aquaponic systems could be developed to work with short stalk corn, that would probably be the greatest thing to do. You'd get fish, typically tilapia but I know a number of other fish species work, and micro greens currently, but a sturdier floatplate could maybe work, with bigger fish tanks.

When it comes to other fish farms, the middle of the ocean is a desert, excess food spilling out into the water would be a lot less negatively impactful out there than only a mile off shore.

So fungal or soy or bug meats? Fuck 'em. People who suggest them are looking for the wrong transitions in food production. If you can swing terrariums for bugs plus a hydro- or more likely since it conserves more water an aeroponics set up, you can manage a aquarium for tilapia and using that water for aeroponic growing of veggies and fruits.

Or inner city vertical farms. Aquaponic and Rabbit setups are probably the most square foot conscious ways to generate meat. And you'd have lots of good nutrients already on site for your vertical green farms, which should consist of, probably kale to start with if going max nutrition, but you should work towards Corn set ups, which might have to require a short stalk, big cob breed. To make the verticality and stacking work.

I'll note I'm doing an aquaponic experiment myself right this moment to see if I can pull it off.

It's worth noting that there's a lot more going on with crops that Calories per acre though. Not all crops grow in all soil and most land is only marginal and won't grow any superproducing crops. In particular, rabbit is quite nice and I raised meat rabbits for many years, but they need high-quality feed and are labor intensive compared to cattle. Cattle are insanely efficient due to how they're raised. Cattle eat native grass for around 96% of their nutrition and get around 90% of their water from rainfall, they live on land that's nigh useless for any other purpose that's too dry, too rocky, too sloped, and too scrubby for any useful crops and turn that scrub into high-quality meat.

Superproducing crops tend to destroy the land they're grown on. Maize notoriously depletes the soil incredibly fast and needs constant rotation and heavy amendments to the soil to keep it from turning into lifeless dust. Potatoes require nigh-perfect soil conditions (Somewhat acid 5-6 soil, very loose, no stones, high organic content, free of the many, many, many potato-killing diseases and pests) to grow... and deplete the soil again, so without constant crop rotation and heavy amendments potatoes will ruin their own field for growing potatoes.

While soybeans take a lot of processing, as a legume they add nitrogen and actually leave the soil in a better state than it was before planting. Soy is often rotated with crops like corn in order to keep the soil conditioned. Similarly, Barley and Sorghum produce a lot less nutrition than wheat, but can grow on rocky, dry marginal soils that wheat can't handle.

In general high-demand crops aren't good for aquaponics. There's a video here by a gent trying to grow corn and having issues with it. His viewers noted that his corn shows signs of nitrogen deficiency (very hard to keep enough for corn), not enough heat (Corn needs very hot growing conditions, if he can wear a hoodie comfortably it's too cold for corn), and probably it's not got enough acid (Corn likes acid conditions of 6 or so, Tilapia like 7-9.)



There's also a few other plants that beat even those, f'rex Apple Trees churn out about 1.7 times the Calories of potatoes, though I don't think living on apples is a wise dietary plan.

 

[Marduk]

The whole movement to find a meat alternative is based on fear mongering, bad assumptions, and a desire to make it so that only the elites of society get to eat real food to being with; so all this talk about finding one that would actually work is missing the forest for the trees. They want to force us to eat bugs, because they want to force us to eat bugs; and they will not be convinced otherwise.

Well they would prefer to make you completely vegetarian, vegan even, but getting proteins right with that is hard to nigh impossible on the latter, and expensive too, so a lot of people would get sick and cause a backlash.
And that is all about the crazy green nutjob ideology with its veganism preachers and muh co2 numbers doomsayers that is part of the leftist big camp.

 

[Terthna]

Well they would prefer to make you completely vegetarian, vegan even, but getting proteins right with that is hard to nigh impossible on the latter, and expensive too, so a lot of people would get sick and cause a backlash.
And that is all about the crazy green nutjob ideology that is part of the leftist big camp.

If it was just that they would have stuck to soy, or latched on to mushrooms or algae. They picked bugs for a reason; and that reason is because they hate us, and want more excuses to look down upon us like we're inferior.

 

[Marduk]

If it was just that they would have stuck to soy, or latched on to mushrooms or algae. They picked bugs for a reason; and that reason is because they hate us, and want more excuses to look down upon us like we're inferior.

They did that first. But they are trying to do things easier for themselves now, and it's all about the church of muh co2 numbers growing its influence.

 

[nemo1986]

That dress is an oppression to everybody's eyes

 

[Cherico]

That dress is an oppression to everybody's eyes

I don't entirely aggree.

The dress's coloration works, some of the elements in and of themselves are not bad, the probem is she uses entirely to many essentric elements the dress is thus too busy, If she just had the shoulder pads it would be ok. If she just had the arms it would be ok if she just had the weird boob cones it would be ok. Its the fact that its all at once thats the central problem.


Now finding an outfit that works for plus size women is a challange I admit but it can be done.

so this right here is an outfit I think that would work better for her notice how decoration is limited and is used sparingly so that each part works together better. You see one central ring to give it a little flare but nothing crazy.

 

[What's the sitch?]

In regards to the priviliged multimillionare black woman claiming she is oppressed

I was watching a documentary of the nixon/watergate stuff, during one part a black democrat representative or something went up to give a speech regarding the event supposedly but instead of talking about the facts or issues involving Nixon and the cover up, it turned it into a speech about racism and how shes oppressed.

I was like, omg omg omg, is she gonna do it, yes... yes... yes she is. I was thinking to myself "damn, they have been playing the oppression card at every opportunity for quite a while now, this isn't new at all".

 

[Cherico]

In regards to the priviliged multimillionare black woman claiming she is oppressed

I was watching a documentary of the nixon/watergate stuff, during one part a black democrat representative or something went up to give a speech regarding the event supposedly but instead of talking about the facts or issues involving Nixon and the cover up, it turned it into a speech about racism and how shes oppressed.

I was like, omg omg omg, is she gonna do it, yes... yes... yes she is. I was thinking to myself "damn, they have been playing the oppression card at every opportunity for quite a while now, this isn't new at all".

Slavery has been over for over a hundred years the last person born under legal slavery died during the 1970s.

Its been more then 50 years since segergation ended, since then we have had black supreme court justices, congressmen, senators and a president. and generally speaking, if your oppressed your not getting some one sitting in the highest seat of government in your country.

 

[bintananth]

Slavery has been over for over a hundred years the last person born under legal slavery died during the 1970s.

Its been more then 50 years since segergation ended, since then we have had black supreme court justices, congressmen, senators and a president. and generally speaking, if your oppressed your not getting some one sitting in the highest seat of government in your country.

Racisim is still very real. Pointing out succesful minorities doesn't do jack shit for the ones who are just everyday people except to make "the powers that be" even less inclined to treat them as equals.

EDIT: Obama is actually one of William of Normandy's direct descendants ... as are my wife and daugters. I am not tracebly related to him. They are.

 

[Cherico]

Racisim is still very real. Pointing out succesful minorities doesn't do jack shit for the ones who are just everyday people except to make "the powers that be" even less inclined to treat them as equals.

Some people are assholes and always will be.

But Racism is not the worst problem black people face, if you really want to improve the communities standard of living give black fathers back the respect and authority that is rightfully theirs.