EU France is on fire. Again.

[Marduk]

I think it is more that Israeli Arabs are more invested in their country than the Muslims in France. Israel actually treats the Israeli Muslims/Arabs extremely well, with full voting rights and such, and despite what the BDS movement likes to claim they are considered fully citizens of the country. France? Not so much, the discrimination against them is endemic and they have zero investment in the country, absolutely no reason to care about their neighbors whatsoever. So, if they're going to get shit on if they stay at home and be nice little helots anyways, why not go out and try and force some respect? What's the worst that can happen, they get treated like they already are getting treated?

3/4 of French Muslims have French citizenship.
Why do they not care about their neighbors though? That has a great difference from the characteristic of Israeli Arabs - those are obviously Arabs, who are natives of the area since a long time.
Meanwhile, vast majority of French Muslims are immigrants, or children of immigrants from all over the bloody world.
We can easily note that similar "unruly youth" problems have also hit countries that don't share French quirks regarding their society and attitudes towards immigrants, like Sweden with its "grenade attacks", Belgium (which has it even worse) the jihadi central of Europe or UK with its notorious "knife crime".

 

[WolfBear]

There's a difference there. In Israel, a Charlie Hebdo would be fine, and the Israeli Arabs are quite capable of handling satire and such. It's because they are part of a healthy society and are included within that culture as part of the culture, not an excluded outsider.

I really hope that you're correct about this. I certainly wouldn't want to be the first Israeli to make a Muhammad cartoon, though. Too much risk. But I would highly applaud any Israeli who would, in fact, be sufficiently courageous to do this.

Maybe being uprooted from their ancestral homes is bad for Muslims? At least Israeli Arabs live in the same geographical area that they lived in for centuries; this certainly isn't true for most European Muslims, however.

 

[WolfBear]

3/4 of French Muslims have French citizenship.
Why do they not care about their neighbors though? That has a great difference from the characteristic of Israeli Arabs - those are obviously Arabs, who are natives of the area since a long time.
Meanwhile, vast majority of French Muslims are immigrants, or children of immigrants from all over the bloody world.
We can easily note that similar "unruly youth" problems have also hit countries that don't share French quirks regarding their society and attitudes towards immigrants, like Sweden with its "grenade attacks", Belgium (which has it even worse) the jihadi central of Europe or UK with its notorious "knife crime".

Again, maybe being uprooted from one's traditional homeland has something to do with this. Interestingly enough, you also see a similar pattern with uprooted Poles:

Rootless Poles

So about Polish elections. Almost everyone familiar with the endless discussions on HBD/Hajnal Line would be familiar with this basic electoral map of Poland. Basically, the parts in the former German Empire tend to vote for liberal/progressive parties, while the parts belonging to the former...

www.unz.com

 

[Arlos]

I think it is more that Israeli Arabs are more invested in their country than the Muslims in France. Israel actually treats the Israeli Muslims/Arabs extremely well, with full voting rights and such, and despite what the BDS movement likes to claim they are considered fully citizens of the country. France? Not so much, the discrimination against them is endemic and they have zero investment in the country, absolutely no reason to care about their neighbors whatsoever. So, if they're going to get shit on if they stay at home and be nice little helots anyways, why not go out and try and force some respect? What's the worst that can happen, they get treated like they already are getting treated?

With all due respect, that’s a pretty ignorant take, not gonna lie, especially the full voting rights exemple you pulled for some reason, like Muslim don’t have the right to vote here…

 

[WolfBear]

With all due respect, that’s a pretty ignorant take, not gonna lie, especially the full voting rights exemple you pulled for some reason, like Muslim don’t have the right to vote here…

They don't if they're not French citizens.

 

[Arlos]

They don't if they're not French citizens.

Same thing in the in the US, or everywhere, it’s not a Muslim things, non-citizens don’t get to vote, period, first gen immigrant get to vote in local elections but not national ones, which is pretty normal, many Muslims are second or third gen immigrants, who have full voting rights.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Israeli Arab / Muslims deal with the Israeli "army with a state" and "siege" mentality.

French Arabs / Muslims don't . Israel doesnt have a formal colonial empire still subservient to them as you can see in Mali,Mauritinia and even ALGERIA (despite One of the bloodiest War of liberation)!

France's , for both natives and non-natives, still has a political elite that doesnt give a shit about the working classes and downtrodden beyond verbal Lip service. The current and previous presidents have demonstrated time and time again they can only do smoke and mirrors.

 

[WolfBear]

Same thing in the in the US, or everywhere, it’s not a Muslim things, non-citizens don’t get to vote, period, first gen immigrant get to vote in local elections but not national ones, which is pretty normal, many Muslims are second or third gen immigrants, who have full voting rights.

Yep, that is absolutely correct.

 

[WolfBear]

The Count of Chambord, you mean? I don't think it was honor. Rather, it was the fact that, after he died, the Orléans branch would inherit the throne. The same family that stabbed the Bourbons in the back twice, the first time with Philippe Egalité, the second time with Louis Philippe. There was no way in hell he would leave the throne to the Orléans.

Do you think that Chambord would have agreed to the tricolor if he would have had a son and/or a male-line nephew of his own to continue the dynasty without needing to resort to accepting Orleanist rule after his death?

And he could be right.Orleans would probably lead France to another revolution.

If France lost WWI, sure. Or if France lost WWII at the beginning of the war only for the Allies to subsequently win this war.

Israeli Arab / Muslims deal with the Israeli "army with a state" and "siege" mentality.

French Arabs / Muslims don't . Israel doesnt have a formal colonial empire still subservient to them as you can see in Mali,Mauritinia and even ALGERIA (despite One of the bloodiest War of liberation)!

France's , for both natives and non-natives, still has a political elite that doesnt give a shit about the working classes and downtrodden beyond verbal Lip service. The current and previous presidents have demonstrated time and time again they can only do smoke and mirrors.

Do you like Eric Zemmour?

 

[TheRejectionist]

Do you like Eric Zemmour?

On Zemmour... I don't know enough about it. He is controversial for many things.

Next year French election might be an enigma.

 

[WolfBear]

On Zemmour... I don't know enough about it. He is controversial for many things.

Next year French election might be an enigma.

Do you prefer Marine Le Pen?

 

[Zachowon]

Le Pen or Zemmour.
Both of them are better then macron

 

[TheRejectionist]

I wonder if Macron Is gonna pull a US election 2020.

 

[Zachowon]

I wonder if Macron Is gonna pull a US election 2020.

Maybe, but unlike the US, the rioting wil be actually rioting

 

[Sobek]

He tries it will not end well. The US Election system is a shitshow that allows for fraud but in France it would be way too hard to pull it off unless the entire media was 100% behind it AND the entire government AND the entire security apparatus AND the entire election structure. The first 2 you might be able to get, the 3rd will be hard as a lot of military and police in France are getting tired, and the last one is gonna be impossible.

 

[Zachowon]

And France will actually riot.
Not do what Jan 6th was.
This would be worse

 

[TheRejectionist]

L'ets wait and see. I am worried about the outcome for Iberia and Italy

 

[Bassoe]

Israeli Arab / Muslims deal with the Israeli "army with a state" and "siege" mentality.

French Arabs / Muslims don't . Israel doesnt have a formal colonial empire still subservient to them as you can see in Mali,Mauritinia and even ALGERIA (despite One of the bloodiest War of liberation)!

France's , for both natives and non-natives, still has a political elite that doesnt give a shit about the working classes and downtrodden beyond verbal Lip service. The current and previous presidents have demonstrated time and time again they can only do smoke and mirrors.

The israeli goverment knows if they weren't keeping their muslims down, their muslims would kill them as they've consistently made it completely clear they want to do. Therefore self-defense dictates their actions. The french goverment on the other hand, sees random jihadist terror attacks as irreverent to them since so far they've only targeted random citizens not leaders like themselves, and a useful opportunity to justify giving themselves more authoritarian powers. So they have no reason to keep them under control.

 

[gral]

Do you think that Chambord would have agreed to the tricolor if he would have had a son and/or a male-line nephew of his own to continue the dynasty without needing to resort to accepting Orleanist rule after his death?

Probably yes. He had some reasons to be pissed off at a symbol of the hated republicans(remember, the guy was raised by Louis XVI's daughter, which life had done no favours to), but I think he'd be at the very least more amenable to a compromise.

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

Well, also, the Muslims that have been moving to Europe in recent years are the ones too extreme in their Islam for their local Islamic State.