General military questions thread
- Thread starter Buba
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Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Does anyone know the reason why Poland and other Euro countries seem to have zero towed artillery? Is there a doctrine reason for this I am missing or something?
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Croatia has far more towed artillery than it has self-propelled artillery:
France has much more self-propelled artillery than towed artillery, but it does have 12 towed howitzers - though it seems to be getting rid of towed artillery for some reason:
You do seem to be correct about Poland having no towed artillery. No idea why, though it might be that terrain has something to do with it?
Buba
A total creep
Terrain is flat, hence an SPG can go everywhere.
I'll ask more knowledgeable people why no towed arty here.
Could be goldplating, a Polish tradition.
I've read that, a few year ago, when working with the South Koreans on an SPG the Polish side's specs for mountain terrain capability were such that the Koreans tapped the sides of their heads with a rigid finger ...
I'll ask more knowledgeable people why no towed arty here.
Could be goldplating, a Polish tradition.
I've read that, a few year ago, when working with the South Koreans on an SPG the Polish side's specs for mountain terrain capability were such that the Koreans tapped the sides of their heads with a rigid finger ...
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Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Germany is the other who for whatever reason also doesn't have any towed artillery but their military is underfunded. Regardless the lack of towed artillery is just weird given how relatively cheap it is compared to self propelled platforms.
Towed arty is MUCH more vulnerable to counterbattery than SPGs.
in case of Poland - we signed some idiot agreement that reduced allowed weapons,including artillery from 100mm.
Becouse we had tons of 122mm soviet self-propelled guns,we must scrapped all else.
And,besides,we do not have modern towed soviets gun,only old ones - so it was not big lost.
Personally,i think that we should not sign anything ,buy license for South Africa G5 and G6 155 guns,and mass produce them.
Too late now.[/QUOTE]
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Well, yeah. But it is also much more strategically and operationally mobile (try loading SPGs on a helicopter or a mule), easier to camouflage, and more resilient to counterbattery fire if it actually hits (SPG is less likely to be hit in the first place, but a dug-in towed piece is basically impossible to destroy or disable except with a direct hit - a near-miss will basically only scratch off some paint).
paulobrito
Well-known member
In the days of small, observation drones and modern counter-battery systems (millimetric radar coupled with advanced ballistic computer), the enemy arty can zero on your arty very, very fast.
In that kind of environment, SPG that follow correct doctrine - aka, fire and scoot - survive much more than towed arty.
In that kind of environment, SPG that follow correct doctrine - aka, fire and scoot - survive much more than towed arty.
Buba
A total creep
The feedback elsewhere I got to my question on "why no towed arty" was:
- "good riddance!"
- a list of towed infantry mortars and WWII pieces still used for training
- "no shit, when I was in the army ... "
- "SHOOT AND SCOOT - we are on the fucking North European Plain!!!!1"
The last point was already mentioned by Astute Posters here already.
Simply put - SPG are soooo much beterrer!
The one place where Poland could find use for towed artillery - or rather, helicopter lifted pieces like some 105mm MH - were the two airmobile/light infantry Brigades. I.e. the helos and mules usage as brought up by @Aldarion, the latter of which are not very relevant considering Poland's relief
Hence the question might be - why do other European armies still have towed arty in 1st line units?
- "good riddance!"
- a list of towed infantry mortars and WWII pieces still used for training
- "no shit, when I was in the army ... "
- "SHOOT AND SCOOT - we are on the fucking North European Plain!!!!1"
The last point was already mentioned by Astute Posters here already.
Simply put - SPG are soooo much beterrer!
The one place where Poland could find use for towed artillery - or rather, helicopter lifted pieces like some 105mm MH - were the two airmobile/light infantry Brigades. I.e. the helos and mules usage as brought up by @Aldarion
, the latter of which are not very relevant considering Poland's relief Hence the question might be - why do other European armies still have towed arty in 1st line units?
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Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
I think it might come back to what I wrote: terrain and strategic mobility. If you need to have reliable fire support in something like Afghanistan, Alps or Dinarides, well, self-propelled howitzers will simply not do. Not much mobility or scoot-and-shoot to be had when you are constrained to narrow valleys and roads.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Here's a question that I was wondering: is there a naval equivalent of a thermobaric weapon, or could an actual thermobaric weapon be installed to a naval vessel?
bintananth
behind a desk
Yes.
A torpedo designed and set to detonate right under a ship's keel makes a thermobaric bomb look nice. That'll lift the target ship (at least partially) out of the water and then drop it into a hole in the water and break the keel along with practically everything else she's got.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
So any kind of torpedo would do?
bintananth
behind a desk
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Okay. I would have to find out the names of those kinds of torpedoes, and to see if they're already in active service.
bintananth
behind a desk
They have been in service since 1917 (or earlier).
bintananth
behind a desk
Without the US basically saying "don't worry, I've got this." the rest of NATO would have been either much better prepared or would have been completey wiped out.