People said the same thing about France before Napeoleon came to power.
Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel
- Thread starter Marduk
- Start date
People said the same thing about France before Napeoleon came to power.
Israel is much smaller in terms of population than France, even 19th century France, and they didn't have social networks back then. I don't think it's doable.
Biden is not good because he is trying to keep both the "assist Israel" side and "stop assisting Israel" sides happy, which is a nonsensical attempt that in the end will satisfy none.
You are on the "stop assisting Israel" side for slightly different reasons, but that position is a bad idea regardless of the motivation behind it, and the reasons are even more shallow and ill considered than in case of the "buh muh human rights" side that Biden is trying to balance around.
mrttao
Well-known member
Saying he is in the "stop assisting israel" side is inaccurate.
his position is:
1. stop assisting israel
2. stop assisting gaza
3. politically, let israel to do anything it wants to the palestinians so long as it does not involve shipping them to a western country. clamping down on any attempt to sanction israel for it.
this position is very different from the typical "stop assisting israel, they are evil colonizer jews who need to all be killed. Allah Huakabar"
If 1 is done, then 3 becomes functionally no different than what USA "lets" many outright adversarial powers do, so it's not really different.
Intervening to prevent others from sanctioning Israel contradicts with 1.
mrttao
Well-known member
number 1 uses USA taxpayer funds to send financial or military aid to israel.
number 3 is just using words or the veto power of UN security council. It does not cost the american taxpayer anything if the USA vetoes a UN sanction against israel.
Also, currently RIGHT NOW the USA is dictating to israel a list of things it is forbidden from doing. "or else".
So number 3 includes removing all those dictates. There were many times in the past where the USA intervened.
For example, in the 6 days war israel was going to erase Cairo and completely annex all of egypt land, but USA forbade it. so israel stopped.
And in this current war the USA forbade israel from sending ground troop into rafah. so Israel hasn't done so.
So a different combination of policies that both sides as far as political lobbies go would hate, what's the point of advertising it, i don't know.
I don't know why people obsess about military aid to Israel, especially considering some testing and R&D programs tied into them, as far as USA is concerned we are talking fractions of a percent of the budget, is there nothing bigger to be oh so fiscal conservative about?
You don't seem well informed...
Those look like ground troops to me...
IndyFront
Well-known member
I don't get why they can't just go to Jordan. There's already a yooog Palestinian diaspora that are naturalized Jordanian citizens, it makes the most sense if they want to escape from the Israelis. And it would be a propaganda victory for them because it would make it look like Israel just ethnic-cleansed the West Bank. I wonder if the Palestinians are just stupid, as opposed to evil like some others here mischaracterize them.
Honestly I think Israel-Palestine is one of the few issues that Biden could be considered to be "approaching decent" on. The current arm's shipments to Israel aren't nearly as unreasonable as those on the far-left make them out to be. Biden has shown support to Israel while also clamping down on them where is seen fit. I don't think there is any danger of Biden cutting off all arms to Israel at all, Biden is a fairly pro-Israel president while also showing concern for innocent Palestinians (as he should)
The answer is very simple. Since the Black September, Jordan doesn't want them very, very, very much , to say it lightly.
I don't think they would consider the risk of Black September 2.0 worth any kind of nebulous "propaganda victory".
Palestinians tried a violent revolt and coup supported by a Syrian invasion; all of it encouraged and funded by Iran.
It failed. The King of Jordan allied with Israel and the USA and crushed them. Executing active militants and exile all but the verifiably loyal assimilated Palestinians. The Kingdom of Jordan has very effective spy network and they are not constrained by the conventions even the CIA has to pay lip service to. They don't trust any non-Jordanian Palestinians.
TheRomanSlayer
Western Chauvinists Must Be Killed
What event was that?
IndyFront
Well-known member
Black September:
Black September - Wikipedia
TheRomanSlayer
Western Chauvinists Must Be Killed
As far as I'm concerned, the Iranians that took part were primarily Iranian communist organizations, and said event predated Khomeini's chaotic revolt against the Shah. Plus the Shah was an American ally, so he couldn't have aided the Palestinian Arab revolt there.
Come to think of it, would an MEK-ruled Iran be just as anti-Semitic as OTL Iran under the mullahs?
Come to think of it, would an MEK-ruled Iran be just as anti-Semitic as OTL Iran under the mullahs?
Quite likely. Consider the relations all the other Soviet aligned ME countries had with Israel...
King Arts
Well-known member
However you don’t have a right to go to other countries. If literally no other nation wants to let a group of people in. That group of people don’t have a right to leave their lands where they currently are. At that point it’s up to what Israel wants if Israel wants the land then they’d have to take the Palestinians as subjects. If it doesn’t then the Palestinians can make their own state on the land they live on that no one else claims. If they start shit with other countries those other countries have a right to fuck them up until the Palestinians surrender.Black September:
I still don't think this involiates the rights of the Palestinians howeverBlack September - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
That makes it more likely not less.
Strong men coming to power requires.
1. A chaotic incompetent government.
2. Horrific sesistemic problems that refuse to go away.
3. a major external or internal threat that puts the countries national survival at risk.
You have all 3 factors with Israel, while its sad it might be a nessary but painful time for them to go through.
Want to bet it's not going to happen?
In what time frame?
This decade yes its unlikely because the Israeli people have not exausted the other options there is still hope.
This century? Incredibly likely, don't feel bad I think your going to see that kind of thing pop up all over the western world this century not just in Israel.
Will Israel remain under a strong man government forever though? That I think is unlikely, I think you will see a return to a republic of some sort after the strong man phase is over and who knows Israel might finally get a consitution once the process is finished.
mrttao
Well-known member
literally read the 3rd line from your post
> "these should have been done months ago"
there was months of delay due to biden forbidding israel from entering rafah with land troops.
I don't know if he rescinded the ban or if israel flounted it. but months of delay occured because of it.