Has anybody glanced at the debt clock recently? (U.S. National Debt Talk.)

There are two major and significant differences between how nations handle money and how individuals/families do.

First, when the government spends money, typically most of that money comes back to them anyway. Give a guy a hundred bucks? It's got sales tax on every penny spent, about of quarter of it will wind up income tax if said guy is middle class so maybe a third of it returns in the first day, and whatever store he spent it at it will wind up also being taxed when they spend it so most of it's back in Government hands in short order. So the government spending money, even frivolously, doesn't quite work out the way it does for families. This is, incidentally, why "Leader skipped into exile with most of the national treasury" can be so crippling for third world nations, the money leaves their economy and quits recirculating.

Edit: A useful analogy here might be comparing an individual's income with drinking water and spending urinating, you have to have a continuous amount of water coming in to survive, and what's urinated out is lost. Government money is more like blood, as long as there's enough of it and there isn't a catastrophic amount lost, it will continue to flow in a closed loop and keep the nation alive.

The second major thing is that nations are functionally immortal. Bob on 221 Walnut St. is going to grow old and retire at 65 or so, and living perhaps 20 years past that. His debts need to be settled in that timeframe and lenders take that into account. The US, on the other hand, will fall eventually like all things but may stumble forward for a century, three, or even more. Consequently, it doesn't really matter if the US can't pay back the principal as long as it keeps up on the interest, because the US never has to retire and thus settle its debts and live on its pension. There will always be another generation of taxpayers to pay down the interest and the principal never becomes due*.

*More accurately, whenever it becomes due they issue bonds to the next generation of taxpayers and simply turn the principal over.
 
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Here's the thing, I'm speaking of experience when I'm calling out your ignorance. I used to think the very same way... until I actually did some investigating.

It's surprising how different the micro and macro levels of economics are.

There's no macroeconomic principle that says you must run national finances the way the US does, and in fact the contemporary mindset of "woohooo, let's just spend money forever because international reserve currency or whatever" is a historically aberration from how the national debt was viewed.

It's entirely feasible to run national finances on the same basis as household finances, and I'd argue it's better to do so, since the average voter, the person that's ultimately supposed to determine how the country is run, actually understands household finances.
 
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There's no macroeconomic principle that says you must run national finances the way the US does, and in fact the contemporary mindset of "woohooo, let's just spend money forever because international reserve currency or whatever" is a historically aberration from how the national debt was viewed.

It's entirely feasible to run national finances on the same basis as household finances, and I'd argue it's better to do so, since the average voter, the person that's ultimately supposed to determine how the country is run, actually understands household finances.
Households do not have military expenditures to deal with, nor are they expected to be the world police.

The US is expected to be the world police, and has to maintain a secure nuclear triad.

It's kinda hilarious to see conservatives complain about the US debt, and think they can run the nation like a household when it comes to finances, while also conveniently ignoring the expenditures and requirements on the US that no household can come close to dealing with.

And that's before we factor in National Park maintainance, infrastructure spending, border security, federal law enforcement in general, and all the space related expenditures that cost a crap ton of money, take a long time, and won't return 'revenue' in the traditional since.

This is another area where conservatives seem to have a brainbug about trying to view large scale, nation to nation economies as little different than their own household, and trying to force them to operate the same way, even if they never have and never will.

There are many important fights for the Right, but the national debt is not really one where many people, outside fiscal conservatives, even give it much thought or view it as something to worry about.
 
Households do not have military expenditures to deal with, nor are they expected to be the world police.

The US is expected to be the world police, and has to maintain a secure nuclear triad.

US tax revenue is ~4 trillion dollars, the military costs .8 trillion.

National Park maintainance

3.5 billion dollars a year.

infrastructure spending

About a 150 billion annually.

border security, federal law enforcement in general,

About 50 billion a year.

all the space related expenditures

Also about 50 billion.


That's less than a quarter of the government's revenue, and absent the military, it's actually an insignificant portion of the total.
 
...It's been a while since you've posted, but don't you support socialist economic policies?
In the sense that 'it's either that or we'll get an October Revolution where even the military sides with the revolutionaries' prevention than anything else...

You would rather ignore things like that and do things like equate household/micro-economics to national/macro-economics than see the reality.
 
In the sense that 'it's either that or we'll get an October Revolution where even the military sides with the revolutionaries' prevention than anything else...

You would rather ignore things like that and do things like equate household/micro-economics to national/macro-economics than see the reality.


considering nearly every socialist/communist regime either results in dying in the work camps or dying of starvation, dying on the battlefield doesn't seem like a bad alternative.
 
In the sense that 'it's either that or we'll get an October Revolution where even the military sides with the revolutionaries' prevention than anything else...

You would rather ignore things like that and do things like equate household/micro-economics to national/macro-economics than see the reality.

There are more ways than 'give them what they want' to keep the Bolsheviks out of power, if that can even be said to be keeping them out of power at all.

Also, the USA isn't an extremely autocratic monarchy. It has some profound issues plaguing it, but a monarchy it ain't.
 
There are more ways than 'give them what they want' to keep the Bolsheviks out of power, if that can even be said to be keeping them out of power at all.

Also, the USA isn't an extremely autocratic monarchy. It has some profound issues plaguing it, but a monarchy it ain't.
That isn't the reason why the Bolsheviks gained power, and you know it.

Make peoples' lives shitty enough (which is what happened during the reign of the last Tzar, and that was before WW1, WW1 only exacerbated it), and they'll gnaw at your throat even if it kills them (this applies to both the civilians and military). We're getting to the point where you have 'give them what they want' or you'll be overthrown and killed. The situation is simply that shitty. People aren't calling the current situation 'Gilded Age 2.0' for nothing.
 
That isn't the reason why the Bolsheviks gained power, and you know it.

Make peoples' lives shitty enough (which is what happened during the reign of the last Tzar, and that was before WW1, WW1 only exacerbated it), and they'll gnaw at your throat even if it kills them (this applies to both the civilians and military). We're getting to the point where you have 'give them what they want' or you'll be overthrown and killed. The situation is simply that shitty. People aren't calling the current situation 'Gilded Age 2.0' for nothing.

things in russia prior to world war 1 were actually improving.

Russia was a cultural juggernaut, their industry was catching up to the west, their companies were improving. The problem was they decided to go to war before their process of industrialization was finished and they bleed for it.

Communism pretty much wreaked them as a country and their more or less on their last legs now.
 
That isn't the reason why the Bolsheviks gained power, and you know it.

Make peoples' lives shitty enough (which is what happened during the reign of the last Tzar, and that was before WW1, WW1 only exacerbated it), and they'll gnaw at your throat even if it kills them (this applies to both the civilians and military). We're getting to the point where you have 'give them what they want' or you'll be overthrown and killed. The situation is simply that shitty. People aren't calling the current situation 'Gilded Age 2.0' for nothing.

...Even with all the shit that has happened since early 2020, I'd really like to know what basis you claim life is getting as bad as it was in 1910's Russia.

I'd also like to know who the 'they' you're referring to who will overthrow and kill... someone if they don't get what they want, which according to you is socialism.
 
We're getting to the point where you have 'give them what they want' or you'll be overthrown and killed.

According to revolutionary leftists, we've been on the verge of the revolution basically forever. When your ideology requires you believe that only mass social upheaval will get you what you want, you will contort reality to fit your ideological requirements, regardless of the circumstances. In the 60s and 70s, we had an actual radical leftist insurgency running around bombing buildings and killing people, because they were dead certain that the revolution was coming and just needed a little push.

People aren't calling the current situation 'Gilded Age 2.0' for nothing.

Yes they are. Ok, not "for nothing", that term gets used because people have no perspective, and because the discourse you're talking about is largely on social media, a forum that doesn't select for calm, well thought out, moderated takes, and doesn't punish delusional wrong ones.
 

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