Has anybody glanced at the debt clock recently? (U.S. National Debt Talk.)

And did the CBO factor how much less economic growth there would have been without the tax cuts into their calculations?

I kind of doubt it.2
I'm pretty sure the CBO does routinely factor in the impact of tax cuts and raises; however, you may well disagree with their estimates. For example, they take the position that tax cuts do not generally result in such a high GDP rise as to increase tax revenue in a short term horizon to the level that would have been collected absent the tax cut—in other words, they do not pay for themselves and they increase the debt.

From the above, it follows that cutting taxes is not a good way to decrease the debt. One effective way would be to decrease spending, but I do not see a public will to do this when faced with actual cuts instead of the vague concept of cutting. Another way is to raise taxes (which, the CBO believes, are not so deleterious as to entirely erase the prospective revenue gain), which coincidentally is a plausible way to increase public willingness to cut spending.
Complaining about the debt is pointless. Both increasing revenue and cutting spending are vastly too politically costly to actually do, especially at levels that would actually meaningfully impact the debt. Best to just hope that Modern Monetary Theory is correct and move on.
That is the rub, yes. But I think raising revenue is presently less unlikely than cutting spending, and simultaneously makes future spending cuts more likely.
 
Complaining about the debt is pointless. Both increasing revenue and cutting spending are vastly too politically costly to actually do, especially at levels that would actually meaningfully impact the debt. Best to just hope that Modern Monetary Theory is correct and move on.

At this point I think pretty much every country in the world is going to default on their debts.

It wont just be the united states, because every ones in the same shitty boat.
 
To build on what S'task said with a couple other points:

1. Right now the system for currency exchange functionally works in two stages. Change your local currency for dollars, then change the dollars to the currency of the place you're buying from. There are reasonably stable exchange rates, and the way that they change is mostly predictable.

If you remove the dollar as the stable intermediary, you need more complicated means of exchange. Even the simplest option, transferring through multiple other currencies, means that you are paying a surtax on each exchange that drives up the costs, reducing profits, and making some businesses completely nonviable.

It's not just a matter of finding an alternate means of exchanging value, it's also a matter that whatever it is you exchange, you're spending more effective value in the process of making the transaction, and that adds up.

2. The dollar has something of an inherent value, because Americans will buy basically anything, and as the largest economy in the world, American demand basically means there's always a place for your dollar to go back to. Americans aren't just interested in buying anything, they also have the sheer money to actually do so. That's not true of every nation, and the only one coming close to it (China), is immensely untrustworthy in every regard.

I'm pretty sure the CBO does routinely factor in the impact of tax cuts and raises; however, you may well disagree with their estimates. For example, they take the position that tax cuts do not generally result in such a high GDP rise as to increase tax revenue in a short term horizon to the level that would have been collected absent the tax cut—in other words, they do not pay for themselves and they increase the debt.

From the above, it follows that cutting taxes is not a good way to decrease the debt. One effective way would be to decrease spending, but I do not see a public will to do this when faced with actual cuts instead of the vague concept of cutting. Another way is to raise taxes (which, the CBO believes, are not so deleterious as to entirely erase the prospective revenue gain), which coincidentally is a plausible way to increase public willingness to cut spending.

Then, bluntly put, they're wrong.

People can theorize in the abstract all that they want, but the major tax cuts of the last 40 years proved that growth in the economy is the path to improved revenue, not tax increases.
 
The recent "stimulus" bills are a foretaste of what UBI - the apotheosis of the modern-day welfare state - will look like if implemented. A culture of indolence and apathy will take over completely, leading to an overwhelming rise in criminality. Technological progress and entrepeneurship will collapse.
 
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The recent "stimulus" bills are a foretaste of what UBI - the apotheosis of the modern-day welfare state - will look like if implemented. A culture of indolence will take over completely, leading to an overwhelming rise in criminality. Technological progress will collapse.
Nobody is going to implement a Universal Basic Income (not a real one at least); because it's too simple, and doesn't offer as much control for the establishment over society. It's just a guaranteed stipend; they'd rather force you to jump through an endless series of hoops before they'll give you your money.
 
Nobody is going to implement a Universal Basic Income (not a real one at least); because it's too simple, and doesn't offer as much control for the establishment over society. It's just a guaranteed stipend; they'd rather force you to jump through an endless series of hoops before they'll give you your money.
Oh don’t worry just like demands for ”free healthcare” they will want to remove it for dissidents.
 
Why people here think national debt = house debt is... concerning. Have you guys figured out that it's just a dog whistle?
 
Why people here think national debt = house debt is... concerning. Have you guys figured out that it's just a dog whistle?
It's worse, because when a single household fucks up, maybe a few of their family have problems. When a nation fucks up like this, everyone within it and near it will suffer, even the ones who tried to do things right and be responsible.

>but people cant print money so its different

Money is only worth as much as it can be traded for, make lots of it and wealth is not created, but the money is devalued and those who tried to save responsibly get fucked up the ass.
 
It's worse, because when a single household fucks up, maybe a few of their family have problems. When a nation fucks up like this, everyone within it and near it will suffer, even the ones who tried to do things right and be responsible.

>but people cant print money so its different

Money is only worth as much as it can be traded for, make lots of it and wealth is not created, but the money is devalued and those who tried to save responsibly get fucked up the ass.
This speaks of immense ignorance on your part. Macroeconomics is a whole different beast than microeconomics. Macro is not equal to micro and vice versa.

I used to be like you until I started looking into macroeconomics (which nations are). Rather enlightening, to be honest.
 
This speaks of immense ignorance on your part. Macroeconomics is a whole different beast than microeconomics. Macro is not equal to micro and vice versa.

I used to be like you until I started looking into macroeconomics (which nations are). Rather enlightening, to be honest.
Notice how @Aaron Fox has lots to say about me, full of sneering contempt and snide rhetoric, but absolutely nothing to say about the simple reality that increasing the supply of money without increasing the supply of material goods and services, devalues the money.
 
Notice how @Aaron Fox has lots to say about me, full of sneering contempt and snide rhetoric, but absolutely nothing to say about the simple reality that increasing the supply of money without increasing the supply of material goods and services, devalues the money.
Here's the thing, I'm speaking of experience when I'm calling out your ignorance. I used to think the very same way... until I actually did some investigating.

It's surprising how different the micro and macro levels of economics are.
 
Here's the thing, I'm speaking of experience when I'm calling out your ignorance. I used to think the very same way... until I actually did some investigating.

It's surprising how different the micro and macro levels of economics are.
So, you like talking about yourself. That's swell, very American.

Now, about that supply and demand...
 
Here's the thing, I'm speaking of experience when I'm calling out your ignorance. I used to think the very same way... until I actually did some investigating.

It's surprising how different the micro and macro levels of economics are.

the problem comes when you take it to the extreme.

Like Greece did, governments can borrow more then a household and if they use their debt responsibly they can grow their economies to pay for it, but if you over do it you will fuck your economy.
 
This speaks of immense ignorance on your part. Macroeconomics is a whole different beast than microeconomics. Macro is not equal to micro and vice versa.

I used to be like you until I started looking into macroeconomics (which nations are). Rather enlightening, to be honest.

...It's been a while since you've posted, but don't you support socialist economic policies?
 

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