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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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I mean we are currently ruled by megacorps so "regulation" clearly isn't the key. The real defense against that is someone like Theodore Roosevelt and that Bullmoose is a god among men.
There is a reason I keep saying the GOP could do itself a huge favor by looking back at TR and FDR, instead of Reagan, for getting across to the modern US electorate.

Reagan is devil to a lot of the left; however, both Roosevelts are regarded as some of the best American's of all time, even by most of the Left.

The only people who seem to hate the Roosevelt style of governance are the Evangelicals and tradcons, who hated/hate the New Deal policies that helped lift the US out of the Depression, but we too 'interventionist' for some on the Right.
 

Abhorsen

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There is a reason I keep saying the GOP could do itself a huge favor by looking back at TR and FDR, instead of Reagan, for getting across to the modern US electorate.
FDR? Really? The socialist? Oh, yes, let's win the left's electorate by massively increasing government and going near total socialism! No downside at all! Definitely not setting up a new Ponzi Scheme that's half the reason we are so in debt.

Also, the New Deal? It absolutely didn't help the depression at all. It actually lengthened the depression up until the war forced Keynesian economics to fix stuff. The New Deal has had absolutely awful long term affects though that persist to this day, including Certificate of Need Laws, which have significantly increased the cost of health care. FDR's first two terms were some of the worst of all time, only balanced by his second two fighting Nazis.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
There is a reason I keep saying the GOP could do itself a huge favor by looking back at TR and FDR, instead of Reagan, for getting across to the modern US electorate.

Reagan is devil to a lot of the left; however, both Roosevelts are regarded as some of the best American's of all time, even by most of the Left.

The only people who seem to hate the Roosevelt style of governance are the Evangelicals and tradcons, who hated/hate the New Deal policies that helped lift the US out of the Depression, but we too 'interventionist' for some on the Right.

FDR was a terrible president basically Horus, Theodore Roosevelt on the other hand was basically the God Emperor of Mankind
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
There is a reason I keep saying the GOP could do itself a huge favor by looking back at TR and FDR, instead of Reagan, for getting across to the modern US electorate.

Reagan is devil to a lot of the left; however, both Roosevelts are regarded as some of the best American's of all time, even by most of the Left.

The only people who seem to hate the Roosevelt style of governance are the Evangelicals and tradcons, who hated/hate the New Deal policies that helped lift the US out of the Depression, but we too 'interventionist' for some on the Right.
That you think FDR was good for the economy speaks to how good a job the Democrats have done propagandizing history.

If it weren't for the fact he was a decent wartime president, he'd be one of the worst and most destructive of all time.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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Sorry, cannot hear all the FDR hate over the fact most of our civil infrastructure is New Deal Era, including a lot of dams, tunnels, mountain passes, and other major public works that help keep the US functional to this day.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
That you think FDR was good for the economy speaks to how good a job the Democrats have done propagandizing history.

If it weren't for the fact he was a decent wartime president, he'd be one of the worst and most destructive of all time.

He wasn't even a good war time president he basically handed half of Europe over to the Communists without a fight
 

Abhorsen

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Sorry, cannot hear all the FDR hate over the fact most of our civil infrastructure is New Deal Era, including a lot of dams, tunnels, mountain passes, and other major public works that help keep the US functional to this day.
"The soviets industrialized Russia, you gotta give them credit for that!" -Bacle.

"Hitler fixed inflation, so it's all good!"

Do you see the issue with this argument?
And even that not wholly, considering how much help he gave USSR. You know, the other major evil of the time.
Not to mention the US government propagandizing for Stalin at home.

He wasn't even a good war time president he basically handed half of Europe over to the Communists without a fight
Look, I don't like him, but this was about what could be done. It sucked, but it was needed. Better half under evil than all under evil. I don't know that there was an actual better option available no matter who was in charge.
 

StormEagle

Well-known member
"The soviets industrialized Russia, you gotta give them credit for that!" -Bacle.

"Hitler fixed inflation, so it's all good!"

Do you see the issue with this argument?

Not to mention the US government propagandizing for Stalin at home.


Look, I don't like him, but this was about what could be done. It sucked, but it was needed. Better half under evil than all under evil. I don't know that there was an actual better option available no matter who was in charge.
The other option was to fight a war against the Soviets. A war that, I think, was very winnable if hard to justify on the home front.

The soviets by that point were nearly spent and would have been cut off from lend-lease. It’s entirely possible that we could have defeated them within a couple of years and never had to deal with the Cold War and all the fuckery that came with it.
 

Zachowon

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The other option was to fight a war against the Soviets. A war that, I think, was very winnable if hard to justify on the home front.

The soviets by that point were nearly spent and would have been cut off from lend-lease. It’s entirely possible that we could have defeated them within a couple of years and never had to deal with the Cold War and all the fuckery that came with it.
The population of the US were not ready for that, for one, and for two we were not really able to justify it.
Add in the fact they outnumbered us a lot in europe.
 

StormEagle

Well-known member
The population of the US were not ready for that, for one, and for two we were not really able to justify it.
Add in the fact they outnumbered us a lot in europe.
I’m sure the allied propaganda could have spun up something that would have gotten the public on side. The atrocities of the Soviets weren’t exactly a tightly held secret.

Their numbers also aren’t the deciding factor here.

How well equipped were they, how much fighting had they recently seen, was their officer corps still relatively intact after the push through Berlin, how many of those men were wounded, how much farther could the Soviet supply lines stretch, how many of those units were armed and fed by domestic Soviet industry and how many were instead supplied by lend-lease from the Allies?

Those are just some of the factors that came off the top of my head. I’m sure someone on here that’s more knowledgeable in WW2 era history could expand on that.

I don’t think they could push us out of our part of Germany, much less out of France. But assuming the absolute worst case scenario and we get pushed to the Alps and Pyrénées mountain ranges, I think any Soviet offensive would falter and eventually get reversed.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
"The soviets industrialized Russia, you gotta give them credit for that!" -Bacle.

"Hitler fixed inflation, so it's all good!"

Do you see the issue with this argument?

Not to mention the US government propagandizing for Stalin at home.


Look, I don't like him, but this was about what could be done. It sucked, but it was needed. Better half under evil than all under evil. I don't know that there was an actual better option available no matter who was in charge.

This!
All this.

Before WWI Russia was growing on average 9% PER YEAR! Via mostly capitalist methods and free-ish trade.
After, their GDP was falling until the 30s.


A conservative politician called Gustav Stresemann, who had pretty liberal economic views, not Hitler, fixed Wiemar's hyperinflation.

Historic illiteracy is quite rampant.

That was also Truman.
FDR died before the end of thw war in Europe.
At the time Truman could not do much, heck, he learned about the A-bomb only after he became president.

He actually tells Stalin about having a super bomb in development and Stalin is like "this guy learned just now..."
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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This is just a sampling of the Beneficial legacy of the New Deal.

Also, Elenor Roosevelt did help of a lot for race relations.

The New Deal and FDR's presidency wasn't perfect, but it was absolutely a good thing for this nation.

The parts of the GOP and radical AnCaps who decry the New Deal as 'socialism' are also the ones who make a lot of normies rolls their eyes at the political definitions of the Right as much as the Left.
 

Abhorsen

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This is just a sampling of the Beneficial legacy of the New Deal.
"See the Three Gorges Dam! Look how good Socialism was for China!" -Literally Bacle

I swear, when I said you were blind to communism when it was the US, that was supposed to be hyperbole about just the MIC, not all communism in US history!

Also, Elenor Roosevelt did help of a lot for race relations.
The Roosevelts didn't even integrate the military, and put Japanese in concentration camps, pull the other one. You are the most gullible person on the site.
 

Skitzyfrenic

Well-known member
No, no, that's probably me. That's not to say he isn't or is. But I'm probably the World Heavyweight Champion of Being Gullible.

I mean I considered myself a Maxist at one point. And I believed my 7th grade English teacher when he explained Communism as an Anti-Work ideology for like most of a decade.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
The Roosevelts didn't even integrate the military, and put Japanese in concentration camps, pull the other one. You are the most gullible person on the site.
To be fair, it was that kind of a time.

Had Tudjman put all Serbs in Croatia into concentration camps in 1990, we would have avoided a lot of evil. Diversity is a bad thing, and doubly so when minority's home country is at war with your own.
I mean I considered myself a Maxist at one point. And I believed my 7th grade English teacher when he explained Communism as an Anti-Work ideology for like most of a decade.
I was a Communist at one point as well, so...
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Liberterians are not leftist. They are centrists who just want to be left the fuck alone.
and occasionally have the delusion that the govt is the only one out to get them. rather than the reality where the govt is merely one of several forces out of them
Libertarians are left on social issues they frequently are pro abortion rights and pro LGBT rights for example, they are also pro drug decriminalized.
We aren't centrists.

Libertarianism is a fundamentally radical position of complete selfownership.

The whole goal of minarchism is that it makes converting money into power hard, as there isn't much power to grasp. More, it deters those who want to grab power to make money, as it isn't usually very economical, as much less power is available. The thing libertarians tend not to understand is that there are people who want power for nonmonetary reasons. Minarchy defends against this, but not perfectly, and it will be eroded by those types of people, and so needs to be restored occasionally.

Google etc would not somehow instantly fuck us anymore thab they are already, as Google is actively using the government to fuck us. Without the government, they lose a major tool allowing fuckery.

Government simply doesn't protect from oligarchs. Because if it could, then the oligarchs buy enough of it to set it against their enemies. It's very simple: if there is power that could affect oligarchs enough to matter, then there's a market which can be used to buy that power, which will be bought by the oligarchs.
I mean you kinda are centrist since you have radical beliefs from both sides of the aisle. Freedom of personal autonomy is a leftist thing, and economic freedom is a rightest thing.

Megacorps aren't restricted by government. This is your issue. Megacorps love government, because they own it and you don't. The restrictions only ever apply to their competition. Your delusion is that you think you can put the "buy the government" genie back in the bottle. You can't.
This is silly MrTao already said government is whoever has the guns. So why would the government get “bought” when they could just kill off the CEOs of the megacorps and take what they want?
 

Zachowon

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I’m sure the allied propaganda could have spun up something that would have gotten the public on side. The atrocities of the Soviets weren’t exactly a tightly held secret.
I mean, how well known were the atrocities committed by the commies by then?
Their numbers also aren’t the deciding factor here.
While true, they make a very good indication
How well equipped were they, how much fighting had they recently seen, was their officer corps still relatively intact after the push through Berlin, how many of those men were wounded, how much farther could the Soviet supply lines stretch, how many of those units were armed and fed by domestic Soviet industry and how many were instead supplied by lend-lease from the Allies?
By the end of the war they had gotten a good bit if thier own industry back up as well as supply lines. Most lend lease stuff was early war.
But good points, thiugh the aspect they had larger numbers was a big point, as well as having a potent air force that had a LOT more experience then the western powers bar Britian, but even then.
Majority of the societ force was a lot more veteran then that of the western allies.
Those are just some of the factors that came off the top of my head. I’m sure someone on here that’s more knowledgeable in WW2 era history could expand on that.
They had a good amount of hatred from the local populations they took control of. But managed to instil governmentd that kept them down.
If we were able to get them to revolt en mass maybe could have helped.
I don’t think they could push us out of our part of Germany, much less out of France. But assuming the absolute worst case scenario and we get pushed to the Alps and Pyrénées mountain ranges, I think any Soviet offensive would falter and eventually get reversed.
It would also depend on if the other nations would be willing to support us in this.
Would depend on how many of the british government would want to fight that war after dealing with the war as long as they had, same goes with the french, who i honestly doubt would join.
germany would due to the fact we would most likely easily be able to convicne the war torn people to help.
outside of that?
not mych else we could do.
This!
All this.

Before WWI Russia was growing on average 9% PER YEAR! Via mostly capitalist methods and free-ish trade.
After, their GDP was falling until the 30s.


A conservative politician called Gustav Stresemann, who had pretty liberal economic views, not Hitler, fixed Wiemar's hyperinflation.

Historic illiteracy is quite rampant.


At the time Truman could not do much, heck, he learned about the A-bomb only after he became president.

He actually tells Stalin about having a super bomb in development and Stalin is like "this guy learned just now..."
True, but Stalin knew due to spies.
Truman was the one that ended the war though, and okayed the bomb drops
 

Abhorsen

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No, no, that's probably me. That's not to say he isn't or is. But I'm probably the World Heavyweight Champion of Being Gullible.

I mean I considered myself a Maxist at one point. And I believed my 7th grade English teacher when he explained Communism as an Anti-Work ideology for like most of a decade.
It's one thing to be a communist. I went through a commie phase too. But it's another to still be one and not realize it.


Anywho, back on immigration news:
Texas has a half victory. They stopped it in texas, but it mostly just shifted to Arizona.

 

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