MGTOW Opinion

[Jormungandr]

My opinion? Except for the fundamental crazies (especially the outright religious 'God decreed this in blah-blah' and 'women need to be subservient to men like slaves' elements), there are many, many valid reasons why it's growing... and I agree with them, shockingly enough.

''Feminism'' and its effects are a core source of the troubles, but they're not completely to blame -- shit like Divorce-Raping, bias towards mothers in custody battles even if the mother in question is a complete junkie/whore that'd endanger/neglect her children, and (crudely put) tricking another guy into raising her 'Chad's' bit-on-the-side children as his own? They're very real issues that are growing.

I sometimes watch Donovan Sharp on YouTube -- I oft disagree with the tone/attitude of his videos, since they can be completely sexist, but he also raises many good points per video. I've also come across other #MGTOW videos, randomly, which raise the same points without the overly sexist tones.

The point? They have valid points.

It's also interesting to read the comments per video and read on other people's personal experiences -- the disturbingly amusing ones to me are where decent men rejected in their late teens and twenties by women are now being actively chased on by these same women, since they now have financial security, the women in question are hitting the dreaded Wall, and said women are becoming desperate because the attention they used to get from people wanting to just shag them are now being focused on girls about a decade younger e.g. 18--27 than their 29--39. And these men don't want to know, are married,or are in committed relationships to women who did settle down with them, or have become so jaded that they've become the type of men who shagged these women in their twenties, creating a cycle.

A common and true saying, in my humble opinion, is that there are going to be many, many lonely middle-aged women that are going to have nothing but cats for company. And it's coming true now.

 

[Deleted member]

Why? I was born here I was raised here why should I leave why is complaining and raising valid points and showing real injustice wrong I love my country but it has a bunch of sicknesses.
Why is it that you can make sweeping generalizations and be justified mgtow is the same as going on strike if you have enough strikers maybe people will come to the negotiating table will it work who knows but the effort should be made.
And to those saying to man up and be alpha be confident etc etc that’s asking someone to walk through a minefield.

You know, I supervise a construction site right now where there a lot of conservative, right-wing hardhat wearing guys with wives and girlfriends. A new guy in his twenties just had his first day today rigging electrical conduit while melting snow from the roof poured down on him and the electrical boss all day. He was eating a huge lunch of crackers, BBQ’d meat and rice from plastic bags in the control room while I was talking to the PM (quite physical job, so it’s not unhealthy to eat whatever you want), and he was talking about his girlfriend with his section lead. There are millions of men like him who don’t go to prison for saying the wrong word, every single day. Even when I am telling them what to do, I call these guys Sir, and they hold the door for me and I don’t complain. I feel that there’s a lot of evidence that MGTOW fears are unfounded and nothing more than a paranoid mirror image of hysterical feminists who would flip out at getting a door held by them. Those feminists definitely aren’t serious employed professionals (they may be employed, but nobody takes them seriously)... And I doubt most MGTOWs are either.

As for moving, it’s a fundamental part of the American spirit to move to succeed at life. It is absolutely a core part of the American ethos. If all else fails, go teach English overseas.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

You know, I supervise a construction site right now where there a lot of conservative, right-wing hardhat wearing guys with wives and girlfriends.

Which state are you in? Frankly, I think this depends on the area and who is more likely to be leaning Left, specifically Far Left

Texas for one, last I checked, is mostly a Red State.....except for its cities

Also, it’s funny of how you talk about moving states.....Californians are moving to you

 

[Deleted member]

@CarlManvers2019 A state in New England, actually.

(The rest of this post is addressed at men generally).

I am not trying to say this is the fault of men; quite the contrary, male livelihoods are being destroyed by modern society. But it is the fault of a small, monied, internationalist elite which gleefully profits from the Pit. Which places automation and technology for technology's sake over the spiritual and moral happiness of human beings. Which takes the dignity of work and the arts and crafts made by human hands and turns them into the soulless currency of mass production. This process has systematically demoralised you, taken away your farms and turned them into factories, and replaced your hands and muscles with those of foreign slaves under the guise of "free trade".

But even with all of that, chances to rise above it do exist. When I do cost engineering calculations for projects I'm carrying a 35% escalation in construction labour costs since 2016 right now--35% in three years! You know what that is? Pent up demand for tradesmen.

People don't want to work hard jobs because you've been lied to, massaged into thinking life is easy since your earliest days in school and in mass media and popular culture. These elite internationalists justify bringing in Mexicans to replace you because you won't work these jobs. That's happened because you're demoralised. So listen to Stan Rogers' The Idiot a few times, take a deep breath, accept fear, accept pain, accept sweat, injuries, and losing two pounds a day for the first few days. Work until you're dead tired and you have no energy left to play video games when you get home. Six months later... It will be worth it.

I see the faces of those men in the construction crews I supervise, and they're happy.

Here's another way to look at it: Demand for labour in the physical trades is unmet to such a degree that it's slowing the economy down. You're actually directly hurting Trump's reelection chances by not going out and getting a job as a tradesman.

 

[Arlos]

except for its cities

Cities are the root of all evil, seriously, when you hear what some of the people from big cities have to say about those outside of cities, it is just terrifying, at least in my country. I heard everything, from « they shouldn’t have the right to vote, they are just to out of touch » to « look at them, and to think they are reproducing! » to my favorite, when people protests (like that time our government raised taxes on gas)«The police should have just shot them! »
Funny thing is, when those people come to the countryside to « go back to their roots », they complain about crowing rooster, the smell of pasture, and call exterminator on crickets...That isn’t even going into the fuss they raise about hunters, and then they act surprised when boars make their way into the city because nobody is allowed to hunt them...

*sigh*

Alright, sorry for the derail.

 

[hyperspacewizard]

You know, I supervise a construction site right now where there a lot of conservative, right-wing hardhat wearing guys with wives and girlfriends. A new guy in his twenties just had his first day today rigging electrical conduit while melting snow from the roof poured down on him and the electrical boss all day. He was eating a huge lunch of crackers, BBQ’d meat and rice from plastic bags in the control room while I was talking to the PM (quite physical job, so it’s not unhealthy to eat whatever you want), and he was talking about his girlfriend with his section lead. There are millions of men like him who don’t go to prison for saying the wrong word, every single day. Even when I am telling them what to do, I call these guys Sir, and they hold the door for me and I don’t complain. I feel that there’s a lot of evidence that MGTOW fears are unfounded and nothing more than a paranoid mirror image of hysterical feminists who would flip out at getting a door held by them. Those feminists definitely aren’t serious employed professionals (they may be employed, but nobody takes them seriously)... And I doubt most MGTOWs are either.

As for moving, it’s a fundamental part of the American spirit to move to succeed at life. It is absolutely a core part of the American ethos. If all else fails, go teach English overseas.

Look let’s just say mgtow people are over reacting the laws and the court system especially family court is still fucked and vastly in favor of women even when it’s fucking obvious the women is in the wrong so even if it doesn’t happen (which it does) it could easily happen the system itself is broken. Look can you admit that women have a social power that is unearned they are basically a de facto nobility. Even if most nobles didn’t abuse their powers they could and most people agree that system is screwed up and needs fixing

leaving doesn’t change anything India and Spain are worse of than America and japan while not having a real movement their women refuse to have children and the males are worked to death. Where are you supposed to go my dude?

And for all your talk of work if your stuck in a shitty town where you can’t find anything your screwed. You live in an area where you dont have to speak Spanish to get a construction job where if your white you get passed over. But that’s off topic

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Cities are the root of all evil, seriously, when you hear what some of the people from big cities have to say about those outside of cities, it is just terrifying, at least in my country. I heard everything, from « they shouldn’t have the right to vote, they are just to out of touch » to « look at them, and to think they are reproducing! » to my favorite, when people protests (like that time our government raised taxes on gas)«The police should have just shot them! »
Funny thing is, when those people come to the countryside to « go back to their roots », they complain about crowing rooster, the smell of pasture, and call exterminator on crickets...That isn’t even going into the fuss they raise about hunters, and then they act surprised when boars make their way into the city because nobody is allowed to hunt them...

*sigh*

Alright, sorry for the derail.

Chickens are cool. Sure, they require work, but they give eggs every day and you can get a nice meat once in a while.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

@Captain-General
I think it’s more than just advancements in technology that have resulted in this problem, I think part of it is due to academia and hollywood social values and thinking, being something that entire generations turned to

In order to “Stick It To The Man” or specifically their Conservative parents and think they are being a bunch of revolutionaries at the same time, whilst indoctrinating their own kids as well

Hell, it explains why Marvel Comics’ the way it is today, not only were a good part of the older generation already Left leaning, the new guys who came in and are willing to accept shit pay, but they are the type of narcissists who want to pretend they are revolutionaries and get followers on Twitter too whilst spitting on the old fandom who were around before the MCU made people really think or talk about being fans of superhero comics

Cities are the root of all evil, seriously, when you hear what some of the people from big cities have to say about those outside of cities, it is just terrifying, at least in my country.

Everywhere else aside from the cities are a bunch of backward, evil, stupid and bigoted people.....depending on how the folks from
Hollywood feel like depicting you

I think there’s a chance that the Commies decide to virtually enslave the “Fascists in the Countryside” and have them do most of the manual labor and give them bigger tax burdens

 

[Deleted member]

Look let’s just say mgtow people are over reacting the laws and the court system especially family court is still fucked and vastly in favor of women even when it’s fucking obvious the women is in the wrong so even if it doesn’t happen (which it does) it could easily happen the system itself is broken. Look can you admit that women have a social power that is unearned they are basically a de facto nobility. Even if most nobles didn’t abuse their powers they could and most people agree that system is screwed up and needs fixing

leaving doesn’t change anything India and Spain are worse of than America and japan while not having a real movement their women refuse to have children and the males are worked to death. Where are you supposed to go my dude?

And for all your talk of work if your stuck in a shitty town where you can’t find anything your screwed. You live in an area where you dont have to speak Spanish to get a construction job where if your white you get passed over. But that’s off topic

Actually, my father got main custody of me and a $70k stake in the family home and only had $150.00 a month in child support (for my younger sister) when my parents divorced in the early aughts. The situation has not really significantly worsened in legal terms since then... I know that the modern world is dramatically demoralising for men. I don't pretend to understand what it feels like each day, I simply am not capable of experiencing that; but I do understand the men who are my friends around me, and they don't have the problems you describe.

I believe the problem is not really legal (though there are legal issues which should be addressed, and I'm not denying that); it's cultural, it's social, it's spiritual. It would be a lot easier for men to date women if communities were strong, and community values held people together, and steady jobs were available at young dating ages, which kept people in communities where they knew potential wives. If society promoted marriage instead of hookups and porn. I believe "checking out" is in fact -- buying into the propaganda of the international elite. My advice for you is that there's nothing more attractive in men than pride. Not money, but pride and confidence. And sincere pride which shines through from a man's soul usually comes from his work. So go get a job which takes skill and effort and makes you proud.

If it requires moving... Then move. Nothing is more concerning than the fact that Americans are moving at the lowest rates in history. People are scared to leave home to look for work elsewhere: That is pure demoralisation at work.

 

[ShieldWife]

There certainly are some dangers to men in the dating world, but as others have said, let's not overstate it.

Here are some statistics about it.

Only 40% of first marriages end in divorce and 70% of people who married in the 1990's are still married. Divorce rates seem to be declining and much of the high divorce rates are due to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th marriages of people who can't seem to get it right. The 40% figure just assumes you're the average person getting married for the first time, though if you can have above average discernment then I'm sure you can push those numbers down.

There are also plenty of guys out there who did go through terrible divorces and who ended up getting shared custody and now have wonderful children that they love.

I'm not trying to downplay the risks or hardships that men face, not at all. I'm not saying that men should man up. But given that we all acknowledge the problems, what will be the solution to those problems? I contend that the solution has to be to work harder rather than give up. Those aspects of our society that are wonderful are the way they are because our ancestors fought, and risked, and persevered against numerous dangers. If we want to make a better future for our descendants and keep the flame of the West alive, we are going to have to do the same - both men and women.

 

[Captain X]

People don't want to work hard jobs because you've been lied to, massaged into thinking life is easy since your earliest days in school and in mass media and popular culture. These elite internationalists justify bringing in Mexicans to replace you because you won't work these jobs. That's happened because you're demoralised. So listen to Stan Rogers' The Idiot a few times, take a deep breath, accept fear, accept pain, accept sweat, injuries, and losing two pounds a day for the first few days. Work until you're dead tired and you have no energy left to play video games when you get home. Six months later... It will be worth it.

Dude, I've worked physically demanding jobs all my life, and all I've gotten out of it is that my shoulders are pretty much rekt, and my lower neck hurts almost every day from having to twist my neck around to look behind me when driving forklift. I took a long time, but I finally got a master's degree, so I could say I did at least as well as my old man did, and now no company will even call me back, so I'm pretty much stuck where I'm at.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Dude, I've worked physically demanding jobs all my life, and all I've gotten out of it is that my shoulders are pretty much rekt, and my lower neck hurts almost every day from having to twist my neck around to look behind me when driving forklift. I took a long time, but I finally got a master's degree, so I could say I did at least as well as my old man did, and now no company will even call me back, so I'm pretty much stuck where I'm at.

Glad to see you’re not romanticising manual labor

 

[Deleted member]

Dude, I've worked physically demanding jobs all my life, and all I've gotten out of it is that my shoulders are pretty much rekt, and my lower neck hurts almost every day from having to twist my neck around to look behind me when driving forklift. I took a long time, but I finally got a master's degree, so I could say I did at least as well as my old man did, and now no company will even call me back, so I'm pretty much stuck where I'm at.

I understand that it’s not easy. I certainly had my own horrible moments of fear over finding a job... I also understand that these jobs can be hard on the body and being the engineer chick in the office trailer I am always going to be insulated from that to a real degree. It’s not an easy life and you might well die early from it. But I just, strictly from anecdote, find the guys at work much happier than the demoralised men complaining about feminism on the internet.

What’s your Master’s in, if I may?

 

[Edgeplay_cgo]

Frex: In a healthy society, part of the reward for a man who does the work to make himself marriageable and provide for a family is the knowledge that he is fulfilling an important obligation. Doing his part to continue something larger than himself, a line that existed long before he did, and Lord willing will exist long after he passes.

I have never considered it that way; certainly not when I married the first time. I didn't want to do something for society. I wanted HER. My duty to society was engineering school and the Infantry. And I never really thought of that since, although I acknowledge that we have a duty to replenish the species.

 

[The Original Sixth]

What is your guys opinion MGTOW. Personally i don't mind them

From what I've seen, it's a movement generally (but not entirely) composed of manbabies who have a nicer spin than incel. Because the only difference between the two groups is that incel admit they can't get women and are sad about it, whereas the MGTOW group's response is generally one of sour grapes. The core problem is the same; they can't attract women or at least women they want. And instead of looking in a mirror and thinking, "hey, maybe I should up my game", their response has been to blame someone else. Incels blame the beauty standards of the world or their parents or their genetics. MGTOW blames feminists and women for not jumping on their dicks.

 

[ShieldWife]

Keep in mind that the idea that “incel” was a movement or self identification is a very recent thing. Originally, the guys that now get called incels were just MGTOW and “incel” was an insult used within the MGTOW movement to mean a guy who can’t get a date, presumably unlike a proper MGTOW who can bed any woman but chooses not too.

Or so I gather from my experiences within the Manosphere.

 

[Jormungandr]

From what I've seen, it's a movement generally (but not entirely) composed of manbabies who have a nicer spin than incel. Because the only difference between the two groups is that incel admit they can't get women and are sad about it, whereas the MGTOW group's response is generally one of sour grapes. The core problem is the same; they can't attract women or at least women they want. And instead of looking in a mirror and thinking, "hey, maybe I should up my game", their response has been to blame someone else. Incels blame the beauty standards of the world or their parents or their genetics. MGTOW blames feminists and women for not jumping on their dicks.

I disagree with this: while some of it is rooted in sexism, a lot of if not most men following the MGTOW 'philosophy' are those that have been personally burned/aggrieved by products of current culture (ranging from Divorce-Rape, to being stalked by women in their thirties, to having false accusations thrown at them, or just plain ol' 'your girlfriend/wife is a whore and now expects you to look after her Chad's babies as though they were yours') or are other men who view these experiences as precautionary forewarnings in their own lives about how shitty women these days can be to you.

And, in my humble opinion, they're not wrong.

As I mentioned before in my prior post, ''Feminism'' and its impact overall is partly to blame for this mess: MGTOW is a reaction to it and other factors.

Until a lot of these issues are fixed or at least minimized, MGTOW is going to keep growing.

 

[The Original Sixth]

I disagree with this: while some of it is rooted in sexism, a lot of if not most men following the MGTOW 'philosophy' are those that have been personally burned/aggrieved by products of current culture (ranging from Divorce-Rape, to being stalked by women in their thirties, to having false accusations thrown at them, or just plain ol' 'your girlfriend/wife is a whore and now expects you to look after her Chad's babies as though they were yours') or are other men who view these experiences as precautionary forewarnings in their own lives about how shitty women these days can be to you.

And, in my humble opinion, they're not wrong.

As I mentioned before in my prior post, ''Feminism'' and its impact overall is partly to blame for this mess: MGTOW is a reaction to it and other factors.

Until a lot of these issues are fixed or at least minimized, MGTOW is going to keep growing.

Some, but I doubt it's most.

And look, I know that sucks. We've all seen or heard stories of men who just got outright fucked. Some bitch cheated on him or screwed him out of property or money. The courts are either unable to address the issue or don't care to in some cases. Of course, I also put that to scale with the women who also get screwed over by men. Judges aren't, as a general rule, stupid. You have to generally fuck up pretty hard not to have equal custody of your kids or you have to get played really well.

But I'm not seeing a lot of "unfair court cases" or "unfit mother" bits coming from MGTOW. I have seen them, don't get me wrong. But the overall message and theme from MGTOW is "Pump and dump these bitches because 15 years ago, they wouldn't look at me twice". Which is essentially treating women the same way they accused the men they fucked 15 years ago of doing. Which is, incredibly hypocritical.

I'm not on board with that. It's a funny joke--but it's a really shitty way to treat people.

 

[Strigan44]

It's a very small and rather bizarre subculture filled with people absolutely out of touch with reality. Unlike the other four major manosphere groups, they don't have that much of a disproportionate influence to their size, so I don't really consider them to be a serious issue.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

You know, I kinda like how you guys got a surprisingly diverse opinion or more than one opinion on this

Though, frankly, just saying to “man up” and move to another place or go be working class in some entirely new job with new coworkers sounds very crazy and risky

Though, yeah, not a good permanent solution, these guys will need to interact with not just men but women and becoming NEETs a delaying action

That said, I think they should go for Bromances instead of Romances, GENUINE Bromances.....which are in no way gay even if they work out together and are sweaty and care for each other