Most common alternate history tropes?

[WolfBear]

What are some of the most common alternate history tropes, in your own honest opinion? Personally, I think that having Germany expand eastwards, either directly or with its sphere of influence, is one of them simply because of just how frequently Germany has attempted to do this in real life. First, there was World War I and the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk:

Then, there was World War II and Operation Barbarossa:

And then there is the subsequent eastwards expansion of the European Union, of which Germany is the most populous and (overall) wealthiest member:

Germany historically hate a type of love-hate relationship with Russia when it was split between trying to be BFFs with Russia and trying to be Ostkriegers, or Eastern warriors.

 

[ATP]

Germans loved Russia when Russia was ruled by them.Later soviets killed Russia,but germans still loved them.Till Hitler come and started his nonsense.
Now? we have german politicians trying making deal with Moscov,as if there still ruled germans tsar,not soviet colonel.
Pitiful.

But,i undarstandt why so many what ifs about that - germans could win both world wars,if they were not,well,germans.

 

[Batrix2070]

One of the tropes most often noted by me is that Poland must always become a PLC and must always be partitioned.
And if it survives, it always looks like a republic and not like the constitutional monarchy to which it naturally evolved. Because I remind you, the PLC was both a republic and a monarchy at the same time!

And the farther to its end, the more the republican rather than monarchist part of the system failed, which is why the Polish constitution was written in such a way that it de facto limited the republican role in favor of the monarchist one.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Despite all the butterflies, Hitler still rises.

 

[raharris1973]

Despite all the butterflies, Hitler still rises.

With any alteration whatsoever, Hitler never rises and/or the Bolshevik revolution never happens.

French settler colonialism only succeeds if they throw Huguenots(TM) at it. Lots and lots of Huguenots. Catholic Frenchmen just won't do.

Want an Asian country to convert to Christianity? Make it instantly interesting by saying the creed they pick is Nestorian(TM).

Conservative monarchs overthrown at home (Stuarts, Bourbons, Romanovs) just can't wait to live in exile states in rustic backwaters like New England, Louisiana, and Alaska.

If West European states (Britain, France, Spain, Portugal) don't shed their transatlantic colonies, all their capitals will inevitably move to the middle of North, Central or South America by the twentieth century.

USA loses the south but conquers Canada.

 

[Skallagrim]

The most common tropes are "Nazis win" and "Confederates win". Those are just the go-to scenarios for mainstream stuff (because even somebody who knows little about history will get it immediately), and are also the go-to for people who are just getting into AH. So those keep showing up all the time.

"The Americans lose their war for independence" is also a pretty oft-seen one, for much the same reasons.

 

[WolfBear]

Despite all the butterflies, Hitler still rises.

Like Jesus lol! The Hitler-Jesus myth!

The most common tropes are "Nazis win" and "Confederates win". Those are just the go-to scenarios for mainstream stuff (because even somebody who knows little about history will get it immediately), and are also the go-to for people who are just getting into AH. So those keep showing up all the time.

"The Americans lose their war for independence" is also a pretty oft-seen one, for much the same reasons.

Also that a victorious Confederacy could ally with the Nazis, ignoring the butterfly effect and the fact that Adolf Hitler won't be born for another 2.5 decades, which is more than enough butterflies to butterfly away his subsequent birth, let alone rise to power.

 

[WolfBear]

With any alteration whatsoever, Hitler never rises and/or the Bolshevik revolution never happens.

French settler colonialism only succeeds if they throw Huguenots(TM) at it. Lots and lots of Huguenots. Catholic Frenchmen just won't do.

Want an Asian country to convert to Christianity? Make it instantly interesting by saying the creed they pick is Nestorian(TM).

Conservative monarchs overthrown at home (Stuarts, Bourbons, Romanovs) just can't wait to live in exile states in rustic backwaters like New England, Louisiana, and Alaska.

If West European states (Britain, France, Spain, Portugal) don't shed their transatlantic colonies, all their capitals will inevitably move to the middle of North, Central or South America by the twentieth century.

USA loses the south but conquers Canada.

Any Franco-British union will inevitably be French-dominated and led by Paris in the long(er)-run.

The Philippines was going to become Muslim without Spanish colonization.

France's monarchy, if restored in the early 1870s, was going to fall after the end of World War II if it was going to collaborate with Vichy France or whatever its equivalent would be in this TL due to butterflies, assuming that the Fall of France still happens along with World War II in this TL.

Russia's monarchy was eventually going to get overthrown with or without World War I.

Austria-Hungary was a house of cards and a Humpty Dumpty waiting to break. Ditto for the Ottoman Empire.

A return to autocracy is a natural development for both Russia and China, who simply can't handle the freedom that their Eastern European and East Asian neighbors enjoy.

A democratic China will become oligarch-dominated and mafia-dominated just like 1990s Russia was in real life.

 

[Red_Tornado]

JFK lives so governor Connely must die.
Clinton never goes into politics he becomes musician.

 

[Agent23]

Operation SeaLion, to the point where AH.netmemed it in a subforum name and/or pinned post .

Muh Magical Nazi Supertech.

U.S. Civil War-related shenanigans leading to slavery still being a thing much later than in OT where it was eradicated globally, and the Confederacy looking like Nazi Germany.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

The Philippines was going to become Muslim without Spanish colonization.

The Bruneian Empire did in fact controlled the area of the Philippines that became the modern capital city of Manila, as well as Palawan. Moreover, there were also Muslim sultanates in Mindanao as well, such as Sulu and Maguindanao. It is indeed going to become Muslim if the Europeans didn't colonize it, although an absence of European colonialism in the Philippines may also mean that even the Ming or Japan could have a shot at colonizing the Philippines. They would certainly have the manpower to do so, although in Japan's case, it should take an ambitious Daimyo that realizes that a southward expansion instead of expansion into Korea would be far more affordable.

One of the most common trends that I see in alternate history TLs is the rehashing of WWII in various tls.

 

[ATP]

Operation SeaLion, to the point where AH.netmemed it in a subforum name and/or pinned post .

Muh Magical Nazi Supertech.

U.S. Civil War-related shenanigans leading to slavery still being a thing much later than in OT where it was eradicated globally, and the Confederacy looking like Nazi Germany.

German supertech.There were no naziland,but Germany.And yes,if Hitler spend money smarter from 1935,he could be capable of invading England without UFO and deaths rays.

Confederacy could not win,only survive,and only with England/France help.Which mean end of slavery.
So,sorry,but not possible.

The Bruneian Empire did in fact controlled the area of the Philippines that became the modern capital city of Manila, as well as Palawan. Moreover, there were also Muslim sultanates in Mindanao as well, such as Sulu and Maguindanao. It is indeed going to become Muslim if the Europeans didn't colonize it, although an absence of European colonialism in the Philippines may also mean that even the Ming or Japan could have a shot at colonizing the Philippines. They would certainly have the manpower to do so, although in Japan's case, it should take an ambitious Daimyo that realizes that a southward expansion instead of expansion into Korea would be far more affordable.

One of the most common trends that I see in alternate history TLs is the rehashing of WWII in various tls.

Ming could do that.Just like some japaneese daimiyo.They would all fight muslims.
Which mean no one Philippines,but colonies of 3 fighting factions.

Dudes realy get lucky,when spaniards taken them.

P.S Merry Christmas !

 

[Agent23]

German supertech.There were no naziland,but Germany.And yes,if Hitler spend money smarter from 1935,he could be capable of invading England without UFO and deaths rays.

Their tech was overhyped and more importantly overpriced and hard to build.

Confederacy could not win,only survive,and only with England/France help.Which mean end of slavery.
So,sorry,but not possible.

You don't say...
However, it is one of the most popular tropes out there, and we are basically making lists of those.

P.S Merry Christmas !

Merry Christmas and good health and prosperity for you in the coming year, too!

 

[ATP]

Their tech was overhyped and more importantly overpriced and hard to build.


You don't say...
However, it is one of the most popular tropes out there, and we are basically making lists of those.


Merry Christmas and good health and prosperity for you in the coming year, too!

1.True,that is why i wrote about Hitler spending his money wisely from 1935.If he build only destroyers ,submarines and landing crafts for Navy,they could succed in taking England.
2.True.To be honest,drakian are more probably - althought if raping hamsters and impaling nuns could win over the world,Ottomans would do that long ago!
3.God Blessing is most important!

 

[Agent23]

The Bruneian Empire did in fact controlled the area of the Philippines that became the modern capital city of Manila, as well as Palawan. Moreover, there were also Muslim sultanates in Mindanao as well, such as Sulu and Maguindanao. It is indeed going to become Muslim if the Europeans didn't colonize it, although an absence of European colonialism in the Philippines may also mean that even the Ming or Japan could have a shot at colonizing the Philippines. They would certainly have the manpower to do so, although in Japan's case, it should take an ambitious Daimyo that realizes that a southward expansion instead of expansion into Korea would be far more affordable.

One of the most common trends that I see in alternate history TLs is the rehashing of WWII in various tls.

From what I have heard anyone other than the Spaniards and the USA would have done a better with the Philippines.

Frankly, Japan exporting it's culture across Australia and SE Asia would have been a good thing.

Another trope, the Christians do not scoff at Mohammed and the Orthodox priests he meets are slightly less corrupt and inept and he becomes a Christian Saint, thus paving the way for the spread of Orthodoxy across Asia and Africa.

Well, not that widely used a trope tbh, but Turtledove did it.

 

[raharris1973]

From what I have heard anyone other than the Spaniards and the USA would have done a better with the Philippines.

Why so?

Although I suppose pre-Spanish locals would have preferred to be left alone as long as possible. But why would Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, English, Portuguese, Germans have been any better in the long or short run?

Frankly, Japan exporting it's culture across Australia and SE Asia would have been a good thing.

Why so? I could imagine the situation being ultimately no worse for Australian aboriginals, but also no or or little better - just screwed over and assimilated on a different timescale and in a different way.

For Southeast Asia, I could imagine it being worse than OTL because Japan has potential for a longer and heavier colonial yoke than the west which left much of the native national cultures and some institutions intact through the colonial period.

Another trope, the Christians do not scoff at Mohammed and the Orthodox priests he meets are slightly less corrupt and inept and he becomes a Christian Saint, thus paving the way for the spread of Orthodoxy across Asia and Africa.

Well, not that widely used a trope tbh, but Turtledove did it.

Which story was that in?

 

[WolfBear]

Another common AH trope: That if France militarily resists Hitler's Rhineland takeover, then anti-Nazis in the German military are automatically going to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis right afterwards. Right ... 'coz it's totally worth risking one's own neck over! I mean, if French troops were marching onto Berlin, it would be a different story, but not if Hitler simply retreats, humiliated but still standing strong in German eyes.

 

[ATP]

From what I have heard anyone other than the Spaniards and the USA would have done a better with the Philippines.

Frankly, Japan exporting it's culture across Australia and SE Asia would have been a good thing.

Another trope, the Christians do not scoff at Mohammed and the Orthodox priests he meets are slightly less corrupt and inept and he becomes a Christian Saint, thus paving the way for the spread of Orthodoxy across Asia and Africa.

Well, not that widely used a trope tbh, but Turtledove did it.

both spaniards and americans fucked Philippines,agreed - but,why Japan should be better?

And,Machomet was kind of christian.First ERE reaction to islam,after loosing Egypt,was describing them as heretics,not new faith.
First Koran was writen 100 years after Machomet,and it is different then previous versions - german archeologist found in Yeman version 100 years longer,20% of text is different.Oryginal must differ even more.

Which differ compared to chrystianity - older found Evangelions are almost exactly the same like our version.

 

[Jormungandr]

Another common AH trope: That if France militarily resists Hitler's Rhineland takeover, then anti-Nazis in the German military are automatically going to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis right afterwards. Right ... 'coz it's totally worth risking one's own neck over! I mean, if French troops were marching onto Berlin, it would be a different story, but not if Hitler simply retreats, humiliated but still standing strong in German eyes.

IIRC, elements of the Party and the Germany military were actually preparing to put a bullet in Hitler's head, if their reoccupation of the Rhineland failed/was resisted by the French.

If his gambit failed, they were willing to offer him up as a sacrifice to prevent another war breaking out and taking down a (then still weakened) Germany.

The Hitler "Mein Fuhrer" fanaticism came later.

 

[ATP]

IIRC, elements of the Party and the Germany military were actually preparing to put a bullet in Hitler's head, if their reoccupation of the Rhineland failed/was resisted by the French.

If his gambit failed, they were willing to offer him up as a sacrifice to prevent another war breaking out and taking down a (then still weakened) Germany.

The Hitler "Mein Fuhrer" fanaticism came later.

They would kill him even in 1938,if France supported Czech.