Things never work out to the extent you want disasters happen shit goes down ect.
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- Thread starter Abhorsen
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Yes. Just have him hire bodyguards or use a marine detachment.
The Ice breaking can be privatized, and I don't give a shit about their law enforcement against drugs, as drugs have cleanly won the drug war. As for their actual help to people, split that part off under something else, maybe. Or better, localize it and split it among the coastal states.
I don't give a rat's ass about border defense if it means they get to search you unconstitutionally all the time. And on top of that almost all law enforcement should be done by the states other than a small coordination/interstate crime taskforce, so get rid of them too.
More than a trim, I'd say.
You do know the coast guard does more then just patrol for drugs right?
It also protects the border in the water and is also a response to any vessels that threaten US coast lines. It is also responsible for maintaining beuyes as well.
Why make ice breaking privatized?
Localize the rescue job of the coast guard?
You do know that training fir that is federal for a reason and takes a long time to get. Making it local would be a horrible idea because some local areas wouldn't be able to afford it or maintain the level of training needed.
You need to remeber the Coast Guard also become DoD during time of war. It is one of the most vital branches as it is the sole protector of the actual coastal waters of the US, just like the Air National Guard and National Guard.
Also, wanna know something about National Guard units? A lot of them suck because of poor state funding.
You are asking for an increase in deaths because of what a single part of thr DHS dis.
Uh...why should the president spend his very little salary on buying body guards?
And do you know why we don't use Marines or the like to do that? Because they arnt trained for it. You don't send uniformed personnel when you want to be discreet. Makes you look like a dictator.
None of what you said makes any since. You are reacting with emotion and not logic. When people act with only emotion they make extremely poor decisions.
No, I've long disliked government institutions. I don't see why we can't get radically reduce the coast guard if we stop the drug war.
Also CBP's bullshit:
Border search exception - Wikipedia
Basically within 100 miles of a border or coast they can do warrentless searches and seizures with checkpoints, etc. That includes nearly all of florida, most of the people on the coasts generally, etc. It's some bullshit IMO. Also, it should be done by the states, not federally, like almost all law enforcement in an ideal world (it'd require other stuff switch too, I get it).
Look man my unit from time to time worked along side the Coast Guard. We did a lot of search and rescue operations far from US shores that no State has the resources to perform. Do you think a State has the resources to save all the crew on a large merchant ship that is sinking that is 200 miles from their coast in 50ft seas in the dead of night. No they don't. Or do an emergency egress of an individual that is going into cardiac arrest 500 miles off the coast. No they don't have those resources either. And that is just 2 examples of things that have happened. You never heard about it because not all the work that gets done by the Coast Guard makes the news. Shoot 90% of what they do never makes the news. They my be Puddle Pirates but they are real heroes in my book.No, I've long disliked government institutions. I don't see why we can't get radically reduce the coast guard if we stop the drug war.
Also CBP's bullshit:
Border search exception - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Basically within 100 miles of a border or coast they can do warrentless searches and seizures with checkpoints, etc. That includes nearly all of florida, most of the people on the coasts generally, etc. It's some bullshit IMO. Also, it should be done by the states, not federally, like almost all law enforcement in an ideal world (it'd require other stuff switch too, I get it).
It is hard thankless work. Always on call 24/7. Going out into dangerous seas many times in foul weather and heavy winds. The ocean is a deadly place. We today take for granted travel on the ocean. Back before the late 19th Century you took your life in your hands going out to sea.
thats actually still the case today just not to the same extent.
The thing is, a huge amount of their work does not need to be done by government as I see it, namely the drug interdiction and Ice breaking (ice breaking should be privately done, drug interdiction should die with legalizing drugs, though I get it's currently necessary). As for states doing it? Simply set up a state semi-national guard equivalent (instead full time job), and split up current coast guard stuff in between the coastal states (not get rid of them, change and split ownership basically). Currently, it would still be funded by federal dollars being sent to the states, but that too could be fixed to state stuff directly while similarly cutting federal taxes.
I don't hate the coast guard, I just see them as law enforcement/first responders, and wonder why the hell the feds are doing this not states?
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
Muh private corporations
bintananth
behind a desk
Do you have any idea of just how expensive an icebreaking ship actually costs to build? Let alone operate?
They're also something private enterprises usually won't build for themselves because "fuck it, I'll just wait for the ice to melt" is usually a better business decision than "I'll clear a channel" because once the path is open others can use it for free.
Because the states don't have the fucking funds to each have their own Coast Guard. Has that occurred to you?
Like, same reason the EPA and OSHA are federal agencies; some thing are bigger than local gov can handle, or afford to handle.
And who the hell is going to spend the money for a private icebreaker, when most of the use for them are either in Alaska or Antarctica, and is not a year round need.
Seriously, some shit should not be privatized, because it is not useful as a private, for-profit venture. Unless of course you think many gov services should just go to non-profit NGO's, who have even less accountability than the gov often.
Read what I write please.
They already do spend the money. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison_Chouest_Offshore
Getting rid of the jones act would also help with that.
Okay, if it's economically non-viable, don't run them (though trans artic shipping will likely make it viable). Simple as. If you want to project power in the Artic: we already do so with submarines.
Anyway, back on topic: can we all agree CISA needs to die?
Doomsought
Well-known member
EPA makes sense as a federal agency because pollution can cross state line via the water table, but OSHA is entirely within the realm of things that a state agency could handle.
Yes, that you want to shift the funding to state level, with federal funding only being a 'stop-gap'.
You do realize that those private icebreakers are mostly used as charter ships for research work or to support oil operations, not so much the heavy duty, long haul icebreaking needed for supply runs in Alaska or down to McMurdo?
OSHA is needed at the fed level to keep state-level corruption from resulting in lax safety conditions at in work-places.
OSHA also exists to make sure knowledge about how accidents happen, and can be prevented, is spread across the nation, rather than being silo'd at the state level.
Anyway, on topic:
I suspect that those things existed, and were doing their jobs, well before they got put under some organizational umbrella of unrelated things.
Every state with a shoreline having its own separate Coast Guard you mean?
Or maybe they could agree to have one such service for all of them, and all contribute funds for it? How about that?
I agree that modern government is bloated, and has lots of people doing things that either could be done better by private industry - or better still, not done at all!
But rescuing people from sinking ships in a storm is not one of those things.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
It's not about "economically non-viable." It's about travel being a non-rivalrous good.
If anybody can use X once X is done then no private company is going to create X, because then they're out the cash and their competitors are happily taking advantage of their infrastructure. Private companies can't create a military to protect the nation because that same military would have to also protect their rivals, who would then gain a tremendous competitive advantage. Private companies can't create the highway system because after they did so their rivals would use it and gain a tremendous competitive advantage. The same is true of rescue services, wildlife preserves, fishing beds, hunting grounds, police, border control, safety regulations, and icebreaking. But these things are all economically highly valuable, they're just in the category of public goods, they must be done by the public because a private entity doing so will incur a massive loss and go bankrupt while helping their competition get ahead of them.
The Tragedy of the Commons and the Prisoner's Dilemma aren't complex economic concepts, this is stuff covered in the first week of Econ. 101.
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The idea of a 'public good' is anathema to AnCaps like @Abhorsen, just like the idea of 'non economically viable' projects getting funding is to AnCaps.
The idea of 'public goods' necessitates more than just local gov control, and more than 'will this make a profit', which is another thing anathema to AnCaps.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Yes. It's a useful Shibboleth to determine if the person is arguing purely from an emotional/ideological perspective or if they are actually trying to take facts into account. If they demand reality change to conform to their ideology rather than accepting reality and making an ideology that accomodates it, if you will.
Or alternatively, they have no idea how economics actually works, since again these are things anybody who has taken even the most basic economics class will have an understanding of by the end of their first week.