Culture Privilege and Voting

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Honestly, no system is perfect, but honestly, the solution is to NOT compromise principles and end up getting some horrible "Voting-Caste" and instead WAIT for people to get smart or actively try to make as many people aware of stuff as possible

In an ideal world, in an ideal setting.

Silicon valley literally makes that impossible..especially when the majority of our Federal intelligence apparatus answers to China and is actively conspiring against the citizens its sworn to protect.

Failing that.....leave....though not many places to go to that isn't owned by any other country or rich dude with private island or something....can't go to the moon and establish arcologies....yet

There's nowhere else to go, America is the last castle.

Especially for those of us who had abandoned our home due to Social Justice terrorism and Marxist nonsense or depraved religious fanatics.

Not a good idea. This will be extended to cover any host of unfavored people, and then the people who are in charge will stay in charge by disenfranchising the others.

There is no good way to disenfranchise adult citizens. When you do, you encourage all manner of gaming the system so that the ruling class stays in power.

As opposed to right now? Where we live in a dying Republic on the verge of turning into a fucking Antiwhite apartheid state? Governed by Beijing through their proxies in the Pentagon, the Intelligence Community and the Democratic party? And Via silicon valley?

America is bleeding out in the street, she's a middle aged model who just got knifed in a Milanese alley by Ahmed and no one is lifting a finger to help her because "The people" Re- the reprobate urbanite scum who vote almost always for violently deconstructive policies that are utterly ruinous. Have deemed it to be acceptable and good and wonderful and bold..that she be made to bleed out.

To hell with that, I already had to flee one nation because of an insane abuse of so called "human rights" led to a Marxist takeover....I'd rather my foster home not be set on fire by the ingrate native born's who've no concept of how precious their home is thank you very much.

How about no. The Majority of the country has already made a decision on what you are advocating. And the only ones considering it are people you don't want given the reigns of power.

Really? Because from where I'm standing the evil racists you hyperventilate about already have near total control of national discourse and public policy...except they ain't good ol'boys

and only half of them are white.

Hmm, that's interesting. Would you consider "I will violently overthrow the government if a political party I disagree with is in power" to be a subversive idea?

Depends on the person saying it.

Lopez Rega furry, degenerate that he was and Videla were both right about one thing. Leftism is a social virus and needs to be treated as such.

I do not believe that a bureaucrat class that rules over the rest of us like second class citizens and uses the FBI, Corrupt district attorneys and oath breakers to maliciously destroy the lives of any group of people who dissent have any right to expect respect, obedience or really due process.

I'm not advocating for a civil war, acts of terror are always the last bastion of the desperate..but there are certain..Types of people who should never, under any circumstances be allowed to gain power.

And when they do, their consolidation should be resisted by every civil measure possible...including, to bring this back to the topic. rearranging the constitution to deny them any form of representation.

The enemy is not men with principles, they are men who have voluntarily made themselves slaves and get off on the debasement and seek to denigrate their brothers and sisters and reduce them to less than that for their own sake.

We should always remember this.

 

[Abhorsen]

As opposed to right now? Where we live in a dying Republic on the verge of turning into a fucking Antiwhite apartheid state? Governed by Beijing through their proxies in the Pentagon, the Intelligence Community and the Democratic party? And Via silicon valley?

America is bleeding out in the street, she's a middle aged model who just got knifed in a Milanese alley by Ahmed and no one is lifting a finger to help her because "The people" Re- the reprobate urbanite scum who vote almost always for violently deconstructive policies that are utterly ruinous. Have deemed it to be acceptable and good and wonderful and bold..that she be made to bleed out.

To hell with that, I already had to flee one nation because of an insane abuse of so called "human rights" led to a Marxist takeover....I'd rather my foster home not be set on fire by the ingrate native born's who've no concept of how precious their home is thank you very much.

The problem is that your solution will not work. By allowing people to be disenfranchised, you are up to the whims of the next vote on who that will be. And it might easily be the socialists who get that power, and then all is lost. In contrast, if the democrats win the next election, not everything is lost, only four years. America has been through worse and survived.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

The problem is that your solution will not work. By allowing people to be disenfranchised, you are up to the whims of the next vote on who that will be. And it might easily be the socialists who get that power, and then all is lost. In contrast, if the democrats win the next election, not everything is lost, only four years. America has been through worse and survived.

You're assuming that my idea doesn't come with "and re-frame the 1a to exclude leftist speech from protections" and to then declare the Democratic party a terrorist organization.

If things eroded to the point where such a radical change to the US constitution is necessary to save the US, then it should go without saying, the party that precipitated that change should be permanently shuttered and it's members subject to inquiry.

And yes I'm aware of the precedent this is setting..there's a reason why several of the founding father's believed periodic civil wars would have been necessary to keep the Republic healthy.

As to America surviving worse...I think you underestimate the subtlety of the evil which besets us.

She aint just stabbed, that knife was septic.

 

[Yinko]

Shute's class would be international business leaders, really.

As some who did live overseas, depending on where they went, they might end up "sacred straight". There are some hillariously fucked up places to go work out there.

 

[Abhorsen]

Remember that most of the leftist college educated types are working at latte stands; they're too poor and unsuccessful to even make it into academia, which is just a small but vocal fraction of their number.

The next step will be graduate college, spend 2 years abroad, then go to a latte stand.

As for the other issue, Shute saw the multiple vote as coming about because it was sensible and aspirational.

The state deciding what people should aspire too is a dangerous idea. Ideologically, I think this is horrifying. More, it is a bad idea, because firm policies like this would need to be very farseeing to be accurate. It's basically the central planner problem, played out politically. Who knows what the future will need?

You're assuming that my idea doesn't come with "and re-frame the 1a to exclude leftist speech from protections" and to then declare the Democratic party a terrorist organization.

If things eroded to the point where such a radical change to the US constitution is necessary to save the US, then it should go without saying, the party that precipitated that change should be permanently shuttered and it's members subject to inquiry.

And yes I'm aware of the precedent this is setting..there's a reason why several of the founding father's believed periodic civil wars would have been necessary to keep the Republic healthy.

As to America surviving worse...I think you underestimate the subtlety of the evil which besets us.

She aint just stabbed, that knife was septic.

America is an ideal dependent on freedom. If you get rid of this by banning a political party (even the communists), you kill America. Freedom is difficult, and hard to secure, but much like water, a clenched fist will never work to keep it.

 

[Sailor.X]

Really? Because from where I'm standing the evil racists you hyperventilate about already have near total control of national discourse and public policy...except they ain't good ol'boys

and only half of them are white.

Um what the hell are you talking about? Who do you think I was referring too? Wait do you think I am a SJW????!!!!! Are you high or something. I have been stating for years now that the Democrats and the Far Left were looking for ways to really screw over Moderates and Conservative. And you propose taking an action that they will rub their hands together with glee over. Don't stereotype people you are debating against. It is poor form.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

America is an ideal dependent on freedom. If you get rid of this by banning a political party (even the communists), you kill America. Freedom is difficult, and hard to secure, but much like water, a clenched fist will never work to keep it.

No, America the successor of Rome, one founded on the implication that the individual and his or er autonomy have more value than anything else in the entire system.

Any philosophy that preaches the deconstruction of that for a weird collectivist thing..is anathema to America. The freedom you praise comes from the individual..his or merits, his or her innate qualities.

Any mindset that seeks to promote the debasement of the one is going to be a virulent plague that disrupts the nation because it denigrates the one.

You cannot have that kind of thinking in the US.

It cannot survive it, these soyboys in the valley and the maniac black Separatists on the streets and the Montonero style Antifa lunatics are a far more dangerous threat to the soul of the United States than a hundred thousand General Lee's, than a million Hitlers or Hirohitos.

Because it uses our love of individualism and expression against us...

Um what the hell are you talking about? Who do you think I was referring too? Wait do you think I am a SJW????!!!!! Are you high or something. I have been stating for years now that the Democrats and the Far Left were looking for ways to really screw over Moderates and Conservative. And you propose taking an action that they will rub their hands together with glee over. Don't stereotype people you are debating against. It is poor form.

No, I think you missed my point.

it's already happened, we've already lost our freedom and the republic has been abolished.

I'm saying we're already here..so your point about bad precedents is too late, not that you're an SJW. But that you're missing the signs that this is already happening, or has happened.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

America is an ideal dependent on freedom. If you get rid of this by banning a political party (even the communists), you kill America. Freedom is difficult, and hard to secure, but much like water, a clenched fist will never work to keep it.

Even if governments illegalize something or corporations try censoring stuff, people find out the stuff that turns them against the Far Left one way or another

Hell, I think people will be abandoning public schools and colleges en masse and buying lots of guns from the black market in secret in the coming years

I may not be American, but I can tell that you don’t need some coup to win

 

[Abhorsen]

No, America the successor of Rome, one founded on the implication that the individual and his or er autonomy have more value than anything else in the entire system.

Yes, like the individual's right to believe what they want, even if what they want is the destruction of America. Yes, even that. I will stand up for their rights, even if they kill me afterwards for doing so, because that's what being an American means.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Even if governments illegalize something or corporations try censoring stuff, people find out the stuff that turns them against the Far Left one way or another

Hell, I think people will be abandoning public schools and colleges en masse and buying lots of guns from the black market in secret in the coming years

I may not be American, but I can tell that you don’t need some coup to win

Trade Schools are killing colleges which in turn is leading to a rise in more fiscally conservative Americans.

Yes, like the individual's right to believe what they want, even if what they want is the destruction of America. Yes, even that. I will stand up for their rights, even if they kill me afterwards for doing so, because that's what being an American means.

Then you are an accessory to the murder of your nation and Americans have voluntarily committed suicide based off a misinterpretation of the first amendment.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Trade Schools are killing colleges which in turn is leading to a rise in more fiscally conservative Americans.

Now if only they did it faster.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Any way...the system at @Tyanna of Pentos proposes is interesting but it can lead to a level of nepotistic and bureaucratic clusterfuckery that would make the US a nation of..I dunno, the Terry Gillem skit with the bureacrats basically.

It's an interesting attempt at a counter..but carries with it risk.

TBH restricting it to property owners and or married people with kids...Is the least likely to royally screw the pooch on every level.

And even that carries risk as others have noted.

 

[Abhorsen]

Then you are an accessory to the murder of your nation and Americans have voluntarily committed suicide based off a misinterpretation of the first amendment.

... You mean the plain English definition of the first amendment? And somehow, defending people from having people like you violate their rights makes me less of an American?

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

Yes, like the individual's right to believe what they want, even if what they want is the destruction of America. Yes, even that. I will stand up for their rights, even if they kill me afterwards for doing so, because that's what being an American means.

Listen close, brother, and emboss this upon your soul: DEMOCRACY IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT.

 

[Deleted member]

The state deciding what people should aspire too is a dangerous idea. Ideologically, I think this is horrifying. More, it is a bad idea, because firm policies like this would need to be very farseeing to be accurate. It's basically the central planner problem, played out politically. Who knows what the future will need?

Well, that assumes that you think change is necessary, inevitable, and desirable. If, in fact, your objective is to conserve the culture you were born into (and/or you believe that culture reflects a permanent, higher, transcendent reality), it's perfectly internally consistent to constitutionally promote a fixed set of aspirational values.

 

[Abhorsen]

Listen close, brother, and emboss this upon your soul: DEMOCRACY IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT.

Democracy is not what I'm championing here. I believe in freedom and rights. And I will support those when it is difficult and when it is easy. And the right to believe in things is even more basic than the freedom of speech. That's what America means: a dedication to the rights of man, even if you disagree with everything they say.

Well, that assumes that you think change is necessary, inevitable, and desirable. If, in fact, your objective is to conserve the culture you were born into (and/or you believe that culture reflects a permanent, higher, transcendent reality), it's perfectly internally consistent to constitutionally promote a fixed set of aspirational values.

I think it is inevitable, regardless of whether it is desirable. Overtime, what America values has changed, like landholding becoming less important as farming declined, and entrepreneurship becoming more important.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

... You mean the plain English definition of the first amendment? And somehow, defending people from having people like you violate their rights makes me less of an American?

People like me, as in immigrants who care about this nation and its values more than you do evidently. Since you think im the villain for wanting to preserve the bleeding lady liberty by cauterizing her wounds and you wanna OD her on morphine while lecturing her about how her indignation against her attacker is misplaced and not consistent with what she embodies?

Listen close, brother, and emboss this upon your soul: DEMOCRACY IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT.

Ah but the ideal is worth more than the ideal!

Democracy is not what I'm championing here. I believe in freedom and rights. And I will support those when it is difficult and when it is easy. And the right to believe in things is even more basic than the freedom of speech. That's what America means.

In other words you are willing to let the very ideal you believe in die so you can stand on principle

And the rest of us can go fuck ourselves.

SMH Americans don't deserve America.

We really should just take it from you, Videla style.

 

[Abhorsen]

In other words you are willing to let the very ideal you believe in die so you can stand on principle

And the rest of us can go fuck ourselves.

SMH Americans don't deserve America.

We really should just take it from you, Videla style.

Whatever you end up with will be some despotic regime that might be called America, but won't be it in anything but name. You would be just as much as a threat as the socialists to America, if you had any power.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

In other words you are willing to let the very ideal you believe in die so you can stand on principle

Whatever you end up with will be some despotic regime that might be called America, but won't be it in anything but name. You would be just as much as a threat as the socialists to America, if you had any power.

People truly into their principles are something that will die off easily and be forgotten by everybody else.....but what better way to oppose your accusers than to NEVER be the hypocrites they accuse you of

It'd be like Andrew Ryan never going crazy

 

[Deleted member 88]

Let me amend my first response. I actually think that very few of the problem people these days have traveled overseas, for instance. They're college educated, sure, but at a time when the value of the college degree has declined. They're not truly international in the sense of having traveled and lived internationally. Shute's class would be international business leaders, really. Remember that most of the leftist college educated types are working at latte stands; they're too poor and unsuccessful to even make it into academia, which is just a small but vocal fraction of their number.

As for the other issue, Shute saw the multiple vote as coming about because it was sensible and aspirational. Anyone, man or woman, could aspire to all of the terms of the multiple vote (except maybe religion, but women pastors of Christian religions were a thing at the time, and there are also other non-pastoral ways for women to be ordained). So you could see demand for it out of an aspirational sense -- that people want rewards for what they have done. And that aspirational identity with a higher class is, for example, a fundamental part of why America was so successful for so long. So it seems that you actually could achieve a large mass of people supporting the Multiple Vote, simply because they all see themselves as "seven vote men"--they're just not there yet.

How are we defining international? Working international? Or vacations?