Racism and Wu

DirtbagLeft

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@Zachowon
I also got my most recent temp ban for freaking saying using Wuhan flu or China flu is not racist..

They are literally censoring anyone they disagree with. There is only one thread theh dont go in to moderate, and that is the Gun control one. Thw only foothold the non far left has left.
It is sad.

I mainly stick to Vs debates on the other site.
Most people here that you have argued both have had horrible experiences with those on the left thanks to SB. FriedCFour was banned for a whole year because of them saying a profile picture was racist...when it wasn't and was actually supporting the group.
Others had been banned for daring question transgender issues. It doesn't help one of the mods on SB is a transgender who is going on the hormones and has said in a discord about wanting to kill off the boomers for the left to win and kill off everyone who uses a computer or something like that.
It was horrible. It is even worse knowing they used to be a US Army soldier..
I assume you sent this from a phone so I hope you don't mind that I edited the spelling errors. I find it to be both polite and it doesn't break the flow of people first entering the conversation in a new thread.

In reverse order. The fact that they used to be in the military it does not surprise me that they think that way. Killing everyone who uses a computer... seems excessive even for Elf's. As to the desire to genocide all boomers. Understanding that I come from a staunch anti-genocide perspective on a purely pragmatic basis I understand the sentiment. Factually speaking boomers as a generation tend toward extreme narcissism, psychopathy, and unbounded egotism as well as showing a distinct lack of personal responsibility. Factually speaking if they were Thanos snapped out of existence today the world would be greatly improved. Additionally the single largest obstacle to the left would be eliminated. That recognized and said. It is bad praxis to commit genocide. It is bad praxis to be seen publicly advocating for genocide. It is bad praxis to advocate for genocide privately. It is bad praxis to even think about advocating for genocide. It is bad praxis in all times and all places no exceptions allowed. I have very few hard lines but genocide is one.

I have yet to visit the forum and honestly I probably wont. While I enjoy a circle jerk as much as the next guy it's something I can just as easily do on my own.

While I am not trans I am a staunch trans advocate. I will admit though that if Thanos snapped them out of existence today advocating for their rights would be infinitely easier. Transpeople tend to be their own worst enemy when it comes to advocating for Trans issues. That is just a fact. That said I would much rather baby boomers stop being boomers, and transpeople to stop cutting their allies off at the hip and being so obnoxious. I mean I understand why both are the way they are. Understanding however does not excuse the behavior. In the case of Transpeople in particular when you belong to a marginalized community that is small to begin with and you have people telling you that you deserve to be murdered and tortured on a regular basis. It's made worse when vindictive assholes actually torture you (but that is for another thread).

Last side piece before the prelims are out of the way. I may be skirting a line here and if so tell me but as I have indicated else where. I am a firm gun control advocate. As in I want ever N-word (Dumb as hell because it means the same thing), faggot, tranny, and fem locked loaded and packin heat. Preferably in nothing smaller than a 45 cal. The fact that they are so weak as to be incapable of moderating a part of their forum which they disagree with shows them to be spinless and weak. I am disgusted.

Addressing racism and bigotry. As to FriedCFour's pic I am prone to think that it actually was racist or near enough as made no difference. I would need to see the image and to know more about the context. However assuming it was racist I strongly disagree with the way I suspect things played out.

Minority groups tend to be sensitive to even the perception of bigotry and for pretty good reason. Subtle bigotry becomes dehumanization pretty quick. From there it's a quick step to violence. The research is in on this and it's pretty clear. That said you cannot win hearts and minds unless you are willing to engage. Disallowing certain topics in safe spaces is not only acceptable but necessary for psychological health. But to have most or all of a place be a safespace is bad praxis, stupid, and dangerous. Life isn't a Lilly and it doesn't always smell nice. Safespaces need to go back to what they originally were. Don't know if you are aware of how or why safespaces arose but a quick history lesson. They began on college campuses in response to groups of very hateful and bigoted Christians breaking into queer clubs and shouting "God hates fags" and "burn faggots" every time they held a meeting. Universities and colleges originally implemented the safe space policy in response. During meetings of any kind (including religious meetings) that were scheduled in advanced the meeting room became a safe space during the designated time. If other students came in and attempted to disrupt the activities they were expelled or ejected depending on how many times it happened. I have no problem with that. What they have become on some college campuses (thankfully most campuses retain the old policy) is a joke and a disgrace.

Bigotry has a very specific meaning in leftist circles and in academics as is actually related to the concept of stochastic terrorism. It's not just about an individual event but about how that larger event plays into the wider structure of interactions between social groups. In the US for example it is nearly impossible for a black person to be racist against a white person. The key term being nearly. Where as in parts of Africa racism against whites may be commonplace.

Perception/Intention/Effect

The reason why we do not use intent as the definition of racism is because intent is nearly impossible to get at. Perception is nearly as useless as it is too subjective. What we can look at however is the effect which an action has. However in this case I near positive that I can demonstrate not only the effect but also the intention of calling it the wuhan flu.

Covid19


Additionally we can examine the history and the language used by individuals who tend to call the wuhan flu or some other variation. Finally if 1 in 10 individuals who use the term as a racist term then the term is in fact racist. We can I hope admit that the number of people who use the term as a racist term is actually higher than that because I think we can all admit that people lie about being racist.

In terms of intent lets ask a single question. What is the at this point almost everyone is aware that the flu came out of china. What then is the purpose of using the term wuhan flu? Especially in the face of it's connection to widely being used as a racist term. And yes 10% is widely. It's not the percentage that matters its the number of people in a given population it represents. 10% of 100 is small 10% of a million is large.
 

Zachowon

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Oh hey! Awsome thread! Did not expect to be mentioned in it.

Though since parts of this does pertain to other forums I would recommend asking someone to have this moved to the NSFW so thay way the other site can not use this against me.

But this is a very nice thread
 

DirtbagLeft

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Oh hey! Awsome thread! Did not expect to be mentioned in it.

Though since parts of this does pertain to other forums I would recommend asking someone to have this moved to the NSFW so thay way the other site can not use this against me.

But this is a very nice thread
Sure if you tell me who and how
 

Cherico

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Ok no.


No I am calling bullshit right here right now. The whole idea that black americans can not be racist is complete and utter bullshit. That minorities can not be racist is complete an utter bullshit. Every community has bigoted assholes in it. Racism is some thing every community has, just like every community has assholes.

The idea that you can not be racist to the majority group is utterally self serving garbage used by bad actors to get away with their bad behavior. It is self serving garbage that doesn't deserve the time of day.
 

LordSunhawk

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You will need to do two things, first request access to NSFW in the appropriate subforum, then once you have access post in staff comms and one of us mods will move the thread. It wouldn't be fair to move a thread that isn't breaking the non-NSFW content rules there if the OP can't view it, yes?

BTW, welcome to the Sietch, hope you enjoy yourself! And remember, we're more than just the politics subforum *grins*
 

Bear Ribs

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Additionally we can examine the history and the language used by individuals who tend to call the wuhan flu or some other variation. Finally if 1 in 10 individuals who use the term as a racist term then the term is in fact racist. We can I hope admit that the number of people who use the term as a racist term is actually higher than that because I think we can all admit that people lie about being racist.

In terms of intent lets ask a single question. What is the at this point almost everyone is aware that the flu came out of china. What then is the purpose of using the term wuhan flu? Especially in the face of it's connection to widely being used as a racist term. And yes 10% is widely. It's not the percentage that matters its the number of people in a given population it represents. 10% of 100 is small 10% of a million is large.
What stood out to me the instant I saw that link unfurled was their choice of wording. People admit that the terms are racist. Not say the term is racist, not believe the term is racist, admit the term is racist. Now admit has a specific connotation, when admit is being used, a crime or wrongdoing has occurred and it's only a matter of admitting guilt. Whether or not you admit it, you still did a crime. This made me skeptical of the study and want to dig deeper, and sure enough they're massaging the data. Specifically they've used an old trick that carefully words the questions in order to steer people into the answer they'd already pre-selected. The fact that they only wound up with 10% after loading the dice is really sad and pretty much proves the opposite of their point to anybody who knows to look at methodology for obvious bias.

The specific trick is that they don't let you select what terms you think are racist, you have to vote for all or none, and they roll the more inflammatory "Kung Flu" in and put it last so that it stands out more. I can readily see a lot of people thinking Kung Flu could be racist, I feel that way myself even though I don't about Wuhan Virus. I suspect if you remove the more loaded term and let people vote only for Wuhan Virus you will get a far lower number than the 10%, and given that the study is starting from a biased position anyway I don't trust their numbers too much in the first place.

As for Wuhan Virus itself, we have a very, very long history of using the place the outbreak began to identify it. Ebola Virus is named after the Ebola river where the disease first appeared. Bornholm's disease is named after Bornholm island where it first showed up. Lyme disease is named after the town of Lyme, CT. Spanish Flu of course, the big daddy of plagues. Somehow Ebola isn't racist against blacks, Lyme disease isn't racist against whites, Bornholm's disease isn't racist against Danes, and Spanish Flu isn't racist against Spaniards. Why is Wuhan Virus racist against Chinese when it follows the same naming convention?
 

Bear Ribs

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Apperently the Spanish flu had started in the states. It is just that Spain was not invovled in the war so they reported on it.
No. It's fairly well known that Spanish Flu didn't originate in Spain, however we don't think it originated in the States. Saying where it came from with certainty is impossible given the time involved. Flus have a tendency to cross over from pigs and sometimes birds and can come from any given location where there's large populations of such animals and unsanitary wet markets. This has led to a prevailing theory that notes that China had a major outbreak of abnormally lethal flu in 1917 a few months before the Spanish Flu appeared, right before they sent 96,000 workers to Europe and the US...


Either way totally irrelevant to whether calling it "Wuhan Virus" is somehow racist. The point is that we've never considered location names racist before.
 

Zachowon

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No. It's fairly well known that Spanish Flu didn't originate in Spain, however we don't think it originated in the States. Saying where it came from with certainty is impossible given the time involved. Flus have a tendency to cross over from pigs and sometimes birds and can come from any given location where there's large populations of such animals and unsanitary wet markets. This has led to a prevailing theory that notes that China had a major outbreak of abnormally lethal flu in 1917 a few months before the Spanish Flu appeared, right before they sent 96,000 workers to Europe and the US...


Either way totally irrelevant to whether calling it "Wuhan Virus" is somehow racist. The point is that we've never considered location names racist before.
I am just saying an Argument I had seen on a sister site. They claimed since some studies show the Spanish flu started in the US is it racist if you call it the AMERICAN flu? Or if white people were being attacked, let go of jobs, and hated on because of it?
 

Floridaman

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that’s what I had that was racist. Someone please fucking explain how, because I still don’t get it.
Because you are showing a minority who has a firearm, thus harming the lefts narrative that all people who own guns are evil white deplorables, as such because it makes their views look bad it is automatically some kind of ist, in this case racist.
 

Senor Hortler

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It's roof koreans who are memed about shooting African Americans. The stupid thing is that they banned you on suspicion of maybe being a bigot rather than going on your actions.
 

Senor Hortler

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You mean shooting rioters who were trying to loot their stores, I somehow doubt they cared about the race of the rioters,
I’ve never seen them memed about shooting Africans. Either way it’s non white immigrants exercising the 2A.
They get memed about all the time for shooting blacks on 4chan and other such places. Hell they joked about it on tasob (english ethnonationalist podcast). Funnily I've only ever see them joked about on places like pol where you'd think the SB mods would be loathe to visit. Activates the almonds honestly. :unsure:
 
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