I think we can both agree the system needed a shake up then.
Breaking News Speaker of the House vote: McCarthy voted down 14 times, wins on 15th
- Thread starter Abhorsen
- Start date
In general, all the politicking is done before and the actual vote is a formality. Actually fighting it out in the votes is, yeah, hasn't happened in an age.
It's not that the position isn't fought over, it's that in the name of making a display of party unity, the fighting is generally done *before* the actual vote.
It's a political realignment those are always messy if we get through this one without a civil war I will count the us lucky.
Of course I think everyone is some flavor of fucked this decade.
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
Still might be a dramatic display power-play on Gaetz and companies part because I don't trust those yabos to have principles either beyond their own soundbites, and I still expect McCarthy to be the Speaker just because nobody else seems interested in that cat-herding position, but...*shrug*
The only real problem with the floor-fighting and halting of legislative branch is the fact that the legislative branch has offloaded so damned much of its function to federal bureaucracies which won't be affected by it and aforementioned milquetoast Republicans have already passed a continuing resolution for 2023 funding the government (and dropping that sweet, totally first-priority money-bomb on Ukraine and the same American infrastructure that the last three infrastructure bills were supposed to be for) so there can't be a broader government shutdown while the Speaker-fight happens.
Bigking321
Well-known member
I saw a news thing saying Mccarthy was potentially going to cave to almost all of the demands if they vote for him.
I don't like him being speaker but if pushing back gets more stuff the actual decent Republicans want then I'd consider that a win.
They should fight back much more often. It actually feels pretty good for a moment. Embarrassing the establishment is nice.
It would be even better if we had a speaker what wasn't a uniparty hack of course. But it's good to take wins when you can get them.
Very disappointed in Trump and MTG for supporting Mccarthy. I'm absolutely sure they will have gotten something for their support. Probably really good concessions. Probably good for the country. But it looks so much like joining with the enemy that the reputation hit can't possibly have been worth it. I can't imagine why they didn't stick to their guns in fighting the establishment. It would have been great for them.
Ah well...
I don't like him being speaker but if pushing back gets more stuff the actual decent Republicans want then I'd consider that a win.
They should fight back much more often. It actually feels pretty good for a moment. Embarrassing the establishment is nice.
It would be even better if we had a speaker what wasn't a uniparty hack of course. But it's good to take wins when you can get them.
Very disappointed in Trump and MTG for supporting Mccarthy. I'm absolutely sure they will have gotten something for their support. Probably really good concessions. Probably good for the country. But it looks so much like joining with the enemy that the reputation hit can't possibly have been worth it. I can't imagine why they didn't stick to their guns in fighting the establishment. It would have been great for them.
Ah well...
Very believable of him.
Because a lot of people on the Right still have this brainbug that the US budget operates like a household budget, when that has never been the case, and think that money going to help Ukraine win and reclaim it's territory is better spent here.
Plus, some of the Right still buy that 'trad con Russia' bullshit (ignoring the AIDS epidemic and gay punishment sex in RU military), or think that Russia will go nuclear before they allow themselves to be pushed out of Ukraine.
And more than a few do not want military stuff funded at all, regardless of what is happening outside the country.
Much of the Right has no ability to adapt, or admit when they were wrong, and would rather double down on stupid ideological naivety and stubbornness most of the time.
The Dems have their blind spots, but so do the Right, and at this moment the Right's blind spots are more embarrassing and damaging to their causes than the Dems are for their causes.
The ones that want the military to lose funding are the same that think being isolated is still viable
They do not want to learn anything that could change that, and are more driven by ideology and naivety than practicality and realities on the ground.
Ideologues are the ones who usually are the last to admit when they are/were wrong, because it means admitting realities on the ground matter more than any ideological desires or dictates.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
This has been hilarious. it is a great way to start the year when we get to see the establishment republicans humiliated. just wish that they could do more about McConnel after that shit he pulled with the omnibus bill.
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
This is a brief digression, but I think it relates because a portion of these 20-21 Republicans motivation for opposition seemingly stems from it.
And it boils down to McConnel and Establishment company in House and Senate joining with Democrats to pass a(nother) omnibus spending bill because Ukraine aid was their first priority when inflation, gas prices, supply chain SNAFUs, and a rainbow of other shit is hammering Americans livelihoods (or, for that matter, restricting their civil liberties...*gestures grandly at the FBI and massive government apparati which have seen agents or administrators abuse their power in the last decade to not even recieve a slap on the wrist for it). All just moments before a Republican House entered-in that would have more leverage in spending negotiations.
Ukraine is a proxy war that the US is involved in at all for the sole purpose of killin' Rooskies in a quagmire--and that goal has been totally accomplished. I don't expect politicians to admit that because it sounds bad and the bullshit about 'protecting Ukraine's sovereignty and freedom' is much better PR for arm-twisting other countries into helping kill more Rooskies in Ukraine by funding/arming the Ukrainians, but they damn-sure can and should match their behavior and priorities in legislation to the fact the US is involved solely because it's fucking Russia up big. And, y'know, funding Ukrainian government operations and pensions is not an efficient, Russian-killing operation.
Neither do big-ass contracts to Raytheon and Lockmart appreciably benefit the millions suffering from inflation, gas, supply chain problems, etc. The broken window fallacy remains a fallacy. Republican Establishment believing whole-heartedly in it (as their opposition on the other side of the aisle does as well) is not laudatory of their good sense and is well-deserving of pushback.
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The bigger issue isn't the Ukraine funding per se. It's that the Lame Ducks are the ones who passed it rather than waiting until the new year so the new Republican majority could have a chance to negotiate and set the tone for things. The Ukraine funding just happens to be one of the big targets because the Senate went on and BRAGGED about how they'd secured more funding for Ukraine and called it "the number one priority of most Republicans".
Look, I'm not against funding Ukraine, but saying it's "the number one priority of most Republicans" is so out of touch with what people actually want its kinda hilarious. There's a laundry list of domestic things needing attention BEFORE funding Ukraine. But it was funding for Ukraine that was highlighted as a priority by McConnel in the Senate, hence why it's receiving so much fire from those on the right, understandably so.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
he linked what peoples priorities are in that link to pew research. Ukraine isn't top 5 for republicans or democrats. foreign policy in general rates as 12th concern overall.
1 the economy
2 faith in our elections
3 education
4 health care
5 energy policy
people care about domestic issues. politicians want to use Ukraine to bleed the Russian war machine dry on the cheap and get some kickbacks.
Building nuclear power plants... funding to build domestic oil production a refinement... funding to expand the railroad system and supply chain... funding to support farms and reduce the cost of groceries.
Instead the bill that was passed was laden down with Dem special interest funding and completely undercut the incoming House's ability to negotiate.
It's receiving fire from those fools who still think Russia/Putin can be negotiated with, or who just want to abandon Ukraine as whole, or those who still do not get that Ukraine's defense is not an optional issue and can't be kicked down the road to the next Congressional session.
That invasion and the need to help Ukraine isn't going to go away because of domestic issues, no matter what parts of the GOP base think or want, and it is a time-sensetive issue where we've already dithered for months on key gear Ukraine needs, and that has cost lives and infrastructure in Ukraine.
Trying to hold the Ominbus till the GOP took control of the House also runs into the reality of what is happening with the vote currently, which would have pushed back aid even farther.
But then again if there's one thing I've learn about the Right since 2016, is that expecting competence from leadership, or critical thinking from much of the GOP base, is being...overly optimistic most of the time.
The Right's base is just as dumb, flighty, and ideologically blinded as the Left's base is, just on different issues.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
then pass the aid as a separate bill and don't torpedo the negotiating power of the house for 9 out of 24 months they will have power. it would have gotten some frowns still but it would have been a more acceptable bill.
Edit: and he loses a seventh time! one more and he gets the record.
Edit: and he loses a seventh time! one more and he gets the record.
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He should have quit after the 3rd go around
Blasterbot
Well-known member
Tim Pool ran a poll for his live chat 97% said no to McCarthy. people either don't know him or dislike him. still I kinda hope he goes for a record breaker and Congress doesn't get a speaker for like a month.