Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

LindyAF

Well-known member
TBH the balance of "who has what and how good it is" in Star Wars post the formation of the Empire makes very little sense in both the Disney and Legends EU and can only kinda make sense in the context of just taking the OT and discarding even the PT. The rebel ships are pretty much all canonically better than Imperial equivalents, but how the hell are they getting their hands on that kinda tech advantage? Hell who are the X-Wings even being made for?
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
TBH the balance of "who has what and how good it is" in Star Wars post the formation of the Empire makes very little sense in both the Disney and Legends EU and can only kinda make sense in the context of just taking the OT and discarding even the PT. The rebel ships are pretty much all canonically better than Imperial equivalents, but how the hell are they getting their hands on that kinda tech advantage? Hell who are the X-Wings even being made for?
The X-Wing is not a one off but rather the culmination of years of development and improvement from the good old Z-95 Headhunter (the AR-15 of Star Wars fighters) with lessons learned from the ARC-170.
T-65 X-wing starfighter | Wookieepedia | Fandom
How did the Rebels get the X-Wing you ask?
It's called "nationalizing big companies is a bad idea".
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I would say Squadrons ends up kinda midway between movie-performance and X-Wing series performance, because Squadrons is *very* much a modern reboot of the X-Wing series. The big change in Squadrons is that TIEs get the hull repair feature, which goes an *enormous* way towards levelling things versus hyped-up Rebel shields. In the old model, all damage to a TIE was permanent, whereas shield damage to a Rebel fighter could be quickly regenerated.

Note that even in Squadrons TIE guns are faster-firing than X-Wing guns, but only the Interceptor actually has rapid-fire model guns, which is backwards to what we see in the movies.

If they were true to the movies, the TIE Fighter would have two rapid-fire light cannons with auto-tracking and a short burst of 4-6 shots from those guns would shred an X-Wing, shield and all. The X-Wing would have four slow-firing but very hard-hitting heavy cannons where a single hit would cripple a TIE and two hits would outright vaporize it, but overall they are poorly selected weapons for fighter-to-fighter combat and really only show their strength when X-Wings are attacking bigger ships and can cause SERIOUS hull damage with strafing runs. The TIE Interceptor would be intermediate, with four medium impact, medium rate of fire cannons coupled to extreme maneuverability. The A-Wing would be as fast and maneuverable as the Interceptor while carrying two rapid-fire, auto-tracking guns with a *frighteningly* wide field of fire; shields make it a little less vulnerable than TIEs, and overall it is the most lethal dogfighter in the GFFA.
Squadrons is the closest we get
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
But there were thirty Rebel fighters that attacked the Death Star -- the Special Edition approach shot shows most of them explicitly onscreen -- and only three made it home, which implies that the four remaining TIEs killed almost every single remaining X-Wing and Y-Wing while the camera focused on the trench runs. Luke and Wedge were the two X-Wings that got away, so we know the *only* survivor of the general melee was that *one* Y-Wing; every single X-Wing not involved in the trench run died.
Imma strongly advise you go grab a pillow, because you'll probably want to scream into it when you read the rest of this post.



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According to Disney Canon there was at least one Star Destroyer just off screen we couldn't see helping to kill the Rebel fighters, possibly several.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
According to Disney Canon there was at least one Star Destroyer just off screen we couldn't see helping to kill the Rebel fighters, possibly several.

Virtually all of the EU video games all the way back to the original arcade machine showed that version of events, with the Rebel fighters having to fight their way past multiple Star Destroyers and TIE waves before they even reached the Death Star.

And for that matter, IIRC some of the early concept art actually had the Death Star carrying Star Destroyers and Strike Cruisers as onboard parasites, and one of the background shots of the DSI actually *shows* what appears to be the stern of an ISD entering a large docking bay in the equatorial trench.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I'm aware that video games normally had approx. 100,000 times more TIEs than the movies (Pretty sure I've personally shot down more TIEs than the entire Death Star compliment in games by now) but Disney actually made it canon, not just EU third-tier game stuff.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
I'm aware that video games normally had approx. 100,000 times more TIEs than the movies (Pretty sure I've personally shot down more TIEs than the entire Death Star compliment in games by now) but Disney actually made it canon, not just EU third-tier game stuff.

Which Disney material is this in?
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Which Disney material is this in?
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Thanks.

Star Wars comics -- in both the EU era and the Disney era -- have always had huge continuity issues, so I pretty much resolve to enjoy them purely on a standalone basis and not worry about continuity. It's practically an industry-wide comic book signature that they don't make sense.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
The X-Wing is not a one off but rather the culmination of years of development and improvement from the good old Z-95 Headhunter (the AR-15 of Star Wars fighters) with lessons learned from the ARC-170.
T-65 X-wing starfighter | Wookieepedia | Fandom
How did the Rebels get the X-Wing you ask?
It's called "nationalizing big companies is a bad idea".

Okay, so it is actually canonically made explicitly for the rebels then. The big question though isn't "how did the Rebels get the plans for the X-Wing" it's "how did the Rebels get or make the actual physical X-Wings?"
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Okay, so it is actually canonically made explicitly for the rebels then. The big question though isn't "how did the Rebels get the plans for the X-Wing" it's "how did the Rebels get or make the actual physical X-Wings?"

As cited in the Wookiepedia article, the X-Wing was originally designed as a next-generation starfighter *for the Empire*, but with the help of sympathizers within the company, the Rebels stole both the physical prototypes and the plans from the company facility at Fresia, then stole additional early production shipments from an Incom facility at an undisclosed location. I would point out, however, that the former operation is from the video game Star Wars: Empire At War and thus not canon even under the old EU, while the latter operation is from the "Darklighter" arc of the 2002 Star Wars: Empire comic, which is also EU-era and of questionable canonicity.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
From what I recall Incom had a few warehouses full of X-Wings which got stolen by the Rebels which was where the intial couple hundred rebel X-Wings came from
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
And shortly there after Mon Martha bought a work of modern art created by a close relative of an Incom Executive.
And also a ton of Incom scientists,design teams, engineers, etc. all boarded a bunch of GR-75 and CR-90s, Action VI Bulk Freighters and other similar vessels with their families for a extended company retreat. Oh and the production tooling and a ton of spare parts for the T-65 and a fair few other Incom products like the T-47 and the U Wing accidentally got loaded on some of the GR-75s and Action VIs via a paper snafu
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Did the U wing exist in Legends?

No, it was newly made for Rogue One.

Although in early Legends, there were several references to a "shuttle version" of the Y-Wing, which makes very little sense considering a Y-Wing starfighter is much too small to fit more than one or two passengers even with substantial modification. Given the U-Wing's strong visual resemblance to the Y-Wing in the upper cockpit and hull, one *could* headcanon-retcon that these references are actually to the U-Wing.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
No, it was newly made for Rogue One.

Although in early Legends, there were several references to a "shuttle version" of the Y-Wing, which makes very little sense considering a Y-Wing starfighter is much too small to fit more than one or two passengers even with substantial modification. Given the U-Wing's strong visual resemblance to the Y-Wing in the upper cockpit and hull, one *could* headcanon-retcon that these references are actually to the U-Wing.
Makes sense to me. Mind you here's a really good question how the heck did the ISB screw up so dang badly in the situation that resulted in the Rebellion getting the X-Wing?
 

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