Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[Crom's Black Blade]

In the EU, the Core generally supported the Empire until the destruction of Alderaan. Sidious was actually aghast when he heard what Tarkin had done, and according to Mara, if the Alliance leadership didn't surrender or was destroyed promptly, Sidious planned to make Tarkin a scapegoat for it. Alderaan's destruction was not planned, as while Sidious definitely enjoyed the Force screaming at the simultaneous death of billions, the political damage just ran too deep for the personal satisfaction to be worth anything.

Now that I could understand. Empires tend to be wealth pumps transferring it from the periphery towards the center where the political capitol is located and thus it would be very believable those systems were most likely to enjoy the benefit of Imperial largess. I could very easily see a group of such worlds, unable to survive without this parasitic relationship, sticking and supporting the Empire to feed them planets.

Its just in the EU, and in many of the proposed timelines seen in this thread, the Empire is made an Rim-ward entity which, to me, would be like, instead of dissolving in '91, the USSR moved its Politburo and armies into Ukraine to fight a decades long cold war against that "rebel" Yeltsin and his government.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Now that I could understand. Empires tend to be wealth pumps transferring it from the periphery towards the center where the political capitol is located and thus it would be very believable those systems were most likely to enjoy the benefit of Imperial largess. I could very easily see a group of such worlds, unable to survive without this parasitic relationship, sticking and supporting the Empire to feed them planets.

Its just in the EU, and in many of the proposed timelines seen in this thread, the Empire is made an Rim-ward entity which, to me, would be like, instead of dissolving in '91, the USSR moved its Politburo and armies into Ukraine to fight a decades long cold war against that "rebel" Yeltsin and his government.

That's because the New Republic took over the Core, which actually makes logical sense, since whether it's autocracy or democracy, the Core has all the major economic and political players in the galaxy. One could even trace the impotence of the canon New Republic to its decision to rotate its capital across the galaxy instead of consolidating power over the major interstellar polities by sheer astrographic proximity on Coruscant, where the EU New Republic, for all its flaws, controlled all those. Kuat, Corellia, Fondor, Rendili, Empress Teta, etc...

...the reformed Empire rising on the Rim is simply the result of the last Imperial warlords being left in control of relatively-backwater sectors on the Rim (I say relative, because they controlled Muunilist, which gave them significant financial clout), and eventually both the Coruscant and Bastion governments decided an armistice was in their shared interests. The New Republic recognized that the populace was tired of decades of civil war, with even the ideologues like Leia willing to compromise now and maybe set the precedent for the Imperial Remnant to voluntarily disband in the future and join the New Republic, while other politicians just wanted to forget about what was essentially just another frontier, tinpot dictatorship, and fully focus on making money and playing politics in the Core, i.e. pre-Clone Wars 'business as usual'.

Similarly, Grand Admiral Pellaeon knew he didn't have the ability to decisively defeat the New Republic, and all he could do in the worst-case was bleed them white. By making peace now, he could consolidate the Imperial Remnant, cement the reformation of the New Order, and maybe give it a chance to rise again in the future. Not all the Moffs were happy, but enough were pragmatic enough to agree, and those that weren't were cowed by Pellaeon's control of the military.

I don't think there's a Western analogue to this situation, but it fits China's dynastic cycle, where the Old Republic becoming Sidious' Empire is analogous to an old dynasty's degradation and eventual fall. The New Republic rises, suppresses all the threats to its power, and effectively claims the Mandate of Heaven, complete with enfeoffing a harmless scion of the old dynasty, i.e. the Imperial Remnant, ala the Two Coronations and Three Respects [ 二王三恪 ] doctrine. Eventually the New Republic similarly degenerates and falls, while a new dynasty rises, literally in the form of the Fel Dynasty, and assumes the Mantle of Heaven.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

That's because the New Republic took over the Core, which actually makes logical sense

I would have to disagree on that. If I was trying to have an Empire survive as anything more than petty pirates or a hermit kingdom like North Korea the Core would be the best place to put it. If anyone would have a good view of the Empire or at the very least prefer it to the alternative it would be the Core.

That is where the wealth is located, where the people with the most to lose from a change in the arrangement. It also has the nice narrative bonus of making the Empire popular with its remaining subjects while still keeping them clearly evil since they are plundering planets to keep a complacent Core population in the luxury they are accustomed too.

Going further, using the two trilogies, you could even draw parallels to our current society making the Core the elitist "liberal west" which outsources its manufacturing, mining and farming jobs Rim-ward that are "beneath" its people to focus on the "knowledge economy" and maintain pristine worlds unblemished by nasty industry giving us a clear, concise reasons certain groups followed the Regime that they did. A bunch of "coastal' ivory types whose chief export is political control and the "fly-over' types outside the Core who do all the heavy toil.

..the reformed Empire rising on the Rim is simply the result of the last Imperial warlords being left in control of relatively-backwater sectors on the Rim

Which makes as much sense as a Moscow-led USSR remnant forming in Ukraine. Everything indicates the Empire treated to the outer planets fairly poorly and they have no love for the Empire. Realistically the Outer Rim would have balkanized and succeeded from the Empire early on much like the hole in the flag revolution of 89.

Yes you could explain it by them holding key hyperspace routes or Muunilist just bankrolling them to an absurd enough extent they can "eat" the occupation costs but that is more inventing things to justify a narrative event than it being an organic, natural progression from the films.

For my money, if I wanted a Constantinople of the east to Coruscant's Rome I would have a planet on a major trade hub. The Empire had incentive to tax the commence flowing through and therefore maintained a greater modicum of order and stability while being profitable enough the Empire had to govern lightly less it disrupted this flow credits when its expanding militarization needed every cent it can get. Therefore when the Emperor fell they could just keep on trucking like normal becoming a bastion of normalcy and stability which in turn could then attract other Imperial forces as the rest of the empire disintegrates.

The New Republic recognized that the populace was tired of decades of civil war, with even the ideologues like Leia willing to compromise now and maybe set the precedent for the Imperial Remnant to voluntarily disband in the future and join the New Republic, while other politicians just wanted to forget about what was essentially just another frontier, tinpot dictatorship, and fully focus on making money and playing politics in the Core, i.e. pre-Clone Wars 'business as usual'.

Similarly, Grand Admiral Pellaeon knew he didn't have the ability to decisively defeat the New Republic, and all he could do in the worst-case was bleed them white. By making peace now, he could consolidate the Imperial Remnant, cement the reformation of the New Order, and maybe give it a chance to rise again in the future. Not all the Moffs were happy, but enough were pragmatic enough to agree, and those that weren't were cowed by Pellaeon's control of the military.

Well the issue isn't so much the Civil War ended in two or more polities. I think in and of itself its perfectly reasonable for the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant to come to some kind of mutual existence.

I just think it makes more sense for a populist Mid and Out Rim Republic squaring off against an Elitist Core dominated Imperial Remnant.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Erm...that's exactly the whole reason why the New Republic put so much effort into conquering the Core early on, so they could control the hubs of political, military, and economic power in the galaxy. This also ties into the Imperial Remnant becoming a Rim-based power, in the sense that once the New Republic controlled the Core, they fell into the exact situation you describe. That is, they adopted Core-centric policies, essentially favoring the Core Systems and exploiting the Rim, and over the decades, public perception of the New Republic had largely reverted back to the pre-Clone Wars status quo, that the New Republic like the Old Republic and the Empire before it cared only for the Core and the Rim was just an afterthought.

In contrast, the Imperial Remnant was essentially just another Rim warlord state, or in other words, it was one of them. And while most of the Rim didn't think much of them either, neither did they especially hate them, since again, the Imperial Remnant had already been normalized as one of them. The Imperial Remnant only really started becoming the dominant force on the Rim generations after the civil war through the Imperial Mission, which was basically a populist campaign to win support by capitalizing on Coruscant's neglect of the Rim and presenting the Fel Empire as a preferable alternative.

And there you have your Western analog, the New Republic/its post-Vong successor state the Galactic Federation being the liberal democracy with a tarnished reputation struggling to keep hold of the 'Galactic South' that is the Rim, while the Fel Empire is the authoritarian populist regime winning hearts and minds against all odds.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Erm...that's exactly the whole reason why the New Republic put so much effort into conquering the Core early on, so they could control the hubs of political, military, and economic power in the galaxy.

The problem is you can't control those things simply by owning real estate. Look to the US occupation of Afghanistan as proof of that. Politics isn't capture the flag and taking something doesn't in and of itself doesn't grant you control over its people.

You could win them over but in that arena the Empire likely would hold the advantage. They can promise every citizen of the Core a living wage, to subside their college debt and a million other things paid for off the backs of the enslaved Mid and Outer Rim whose votes don't count for the Core.

That is, they adopted Core-centric policies, essentially favoring the Core Systems and exploiting the Rim, and over the decades, public perception of the New Republic had largely reverted back to the pre-Clone Wars status quo, that the New Republic like the Old Republic and the Empire before it cared only for the Core and the Rim was just an afterthought.

That is a completely possible, indeed possibly likely, outcome because politics are largely set by outside factors regardless of whose flag resides on the flagpole. It doesn't explain why they would turn to the Empire as opposed to form a third polity that actually represents their own needs.

In contrast, the Imperial Remnant was essentially just another Rim warlord state, or in other words, it was one of them.

Imagine, to use my Soviet analogue, saying "the USSR Remnant was essentially just another frontier warlord state, or in other words, it was one of them." I feel that is very unlikely and unrealistic. The memory of their warcrimes would not only be firmly in living memory, even personal experience, but many of the people who conducted it would still be active members of this Empire.

The Imperial Remnant only really started becoming the dominant force on the Rim generations after the civil war through the Imperial Mission, which was basically a populist campaign to win support by capitalizing on Coruscant's neglect of the Rim and presenting the Fel Empire as a preferable alternative.

That would make more sense as a "First Order" Neo-Empire that grew in the shadows, attracting old veterans and disenchanted youths tired of Core politics, rather than as a continuation of the 1st Empire with all its assorted baggage and difficulty of surviving in hostile territory with limited resources for decades.

Again the issue isn't so much of an Empire, even one who borrows from the GE, arising on the Outer Rim. Its that the Galactic Empire would be the absolute least popular in the Outer Rim and would be forced to fight in essence a two-front war against the Republic and to hold onto its own territory from internal rebellion. All while recovering from Warlords splitting already limited resources even further between themselves.

I myself suggested a Constantinople strategy to more organically have the Empire survive. Another idea would be for the Empire to avoid fragmenting to warlords and make a conscious effort to relocate "farther east" in a hybrid mixture of the Soviets moving their factories beyond the Urals and the Chinese Nationals retreating retreating to Tiawan to wait out the Republic.

And there you have your Western analog, the New Republic/its post-Vong successor state the Galactic Federation being the liberal democracy with a tarnished reputation struggling to keep hold of the 'Galactic South' that is the Rim, while the Fel Empire is the authoritarian populist regime winning hearts and minds against all odds.

Doesn't really fit. In the West it's the liberals who are autocratic and its the populists who champion Republican, representive and constitutional norms or "liberal democracy" to use a less accurate but common term.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

That's because the New Republic took over the Core, which actually makes logical sense, since whether it's autocracy or democracy, the Core has all the major economic and political players in the galaxy.

Something interesting to our discussion is the difference point of focus in our arguments. You primarily seem focused on the benefits of the Core and thus why the Rebellion/Republic focused on retaking it first. To get the prestige, the wealth and population from which to fight the Empire. That in essence the Republic needed to control "X" and the Core is the best location of "X".

You seem to take it as granted that owning Coruscant means Kuat will do what you want due to "astrographic proximity".

On the other hand I've been primarily focused on the underlying goals and motivations of the Core. For instance while we both agree the Core is wealthy for you that merely is an asset which must belong to either the Republic or the Empire. To me on the other hand "wealth", and the fear of losing it, would suggest the Core would favor the stability and old assurance of the Empire over the unknown that is the New Republic.

That the local governments of the Core would support the Empire with funds, material and men and as consequences places like Kuat would continue pumping out Star Destroyers for them because their credit would still flow.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

After Alderaan was destroyed, support for the Empire in the Core was critically-undermined, especially after the rebels destroyed the Death Star at Yavin soon after. Again, Sidious was furious at Tarkin for destroying a Core World. Then after Endor the Empire practically fractured, essentially ending any remaining benefits of supporting the Empire, especially since Isard was essentially just a female Stalin, only without the ability to reign in any of the other warlords. The Core polities supporting the New Republic after they took Coruscant was simply them currying favor with the new government which seemed to promise a return to normal and profit. And of course, while not as overt as they wished, they could use influence in the Senate to curtail idealists like Leia and Mothma*, and in the long-term readopt their preferred Core-centric policies. It's certainly telling that the New Republic only really began to tank once Mothma, Leia, and the rest of the rebel old guard either grew too old and had to retire, or in Leia's case, was shut out of politics by term limits.

On a related note, it's actually arguable that the Fel Empire is a solid continuity of Sidious' empire. Daala's reforms tore out a lot of dead wood, seeing as she started with a purge of the old guard, before dropping High Human Culture, and later on the rise of the Fel Dynasty actually made it a proper monarchy instead of the kratocracy that Sidious favored. I think someone previously argued as much on this thread in the past, that despite retaining various trappings from its predecessor, the Fel Empire was very much a complete different polity and even culture. Which again, swings back to my analogies with Imperial China, with the various dynasties being very different from each other despite various unifying traits between them.

*EU Mothma was an idealist, not an idiot. Canon Mothma is an idiot.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Whilst the Galactic Empire was in effect a fascist regime made to be Sidious’s plaything, the Fel Empire is more of a Prussia/Rome hybrid in space. To it the ideas of the New Order are not window dressings, hence why it functioned a Hell of a lot better.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

After Alderaan was destroyed, support for the Empire in the Core was critically-undermined, especially after the rebels destroyed the Death Star at Yavin soon after. Again, Sidious was furious at Tarkin for destroying a Core World. Then after Endor the Empire practically fractured, essentially ending any remaining benefits of supporting the Empire, especially since Isard was essentially just a female Stalin, only without the ability to reign in any of the other warlords.

To the first part, that's the beauty of things. The Core doesn't have to like or even really trust the Empire per say. As in all things politics its a marriage of convivence due to aligning interests. They could hate the Empire but as long as the Empire is the most likely to give them what they want/need they have no choice but to support them.

I certainly can see why the Empire building Deathstars and blowing up random worlds, Core worlds at that, would piss off the Core and, at the time, make them rethink if Palpy is the best guy who could be managing things. But at this point Tarkin is dead, the Emperor is dead and, seemingly, the Empire is fresh out of Deathstars. Assuming the Core has any agency post-Endor would be the perfect time to assert their influence and reshape it into a better tool for their needs.

The second point you raise I agree does make logical sense. If the Empire, already proven to be a mixed bag at best, is in such disarray that it can't properly function then I can see them throwing their hat behind the seeming clear victor and backing the Republic. However to me, if they are that weak, that suggests more of the quick implosion we get in Disney canon. The fractured Empire bleeding resources fighting a lost cause against the Republic, insurrection in its own remaining territory and desertion as everyone who can see the writing on the wall defects to the Republic or local planetary governments

On a related note, it's actually arguable that the Fel Empire is a solid continuity of Sidious' empire. Daala's reforms tore out a lot of dead wood, seeing as she started with a purge of the old guard, before dropping High Human Culture

Okay.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

That's just the thing. The Moffs and other local warlords were, in many parts of the galaxy, the local governments. Again, the EU Empire was very much a feudal thing. And apparently, had a much larger military than the canon Empire, since from the sound of things, the Imperial Fleet we see at Endor was supposed to form the bulk of the Imperial Navy. In contrast, the EU Empire actually had an estimated 25,000 Imperial Class Star Destroyers alone in its entire navy by the time of the Battle of Yavin, most of which were permanently stationed in the Core. This doesn't include smaller vessels, such as Vindicator cruisers among others, which were actually the workhorse of the Imperial Navy.

After Endor, that vast military more often than not just followed the closest, highest-ranking military officer, hence the EU Empire fracturing rather than imploding. Hence why I reject the analogy between the Empire and the Soviet Union, and find Imperial China more fitting. The dynasty collapsed, central authority has failed, and the various armies and fleets of the empire now follow generals, admirals, and governors vying for power.

 

[Bassoe]

We're not the only ones to have looked at the clone wars and rise of the empire though an economic lens as the powerful and wealthy Core worlds screwing over the weak and poor Rim, then the tacit understanding that Core worlds would be spared the ravages of the empire being violated by Alderaan's destruction motivating a rebellion.

The Dark Side of Capital: Economics, Ideology and Palpatine’s Empire

Popular history casts the Fourth Sith Empire as a 30-year historical aberration triggered by Sheev Palpatine’s conspiracy to undermine Ruusanian Republic institutions. The following analysis is an …

mobunited.wordpress.com

Arguably works equally well with Naboo and the trade federation's invasion. The whole point of Alderaan and Naboo being that they were nice places to live, so people would work on more industrialized but less safe and comfortable planets like Coruscant to save up money to move.

Jendirian Valley/Legends

The Jendirian Valley was an AA-9 Coruscant freighter which was famous for helping refugees. Its middle deck had been modified to hold 30,000 beings. Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala journeyed aboard the Valley, disguised as refugees, to Naboo after the attempt on Senator Amidala's life. The...

starwars.fandom.com

And that by disproving Alderaan and Naboo's supposed safety, Palpatine FUBRed their economies.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

That's just the thing. The Moffs and other local warlords were, in many parts of the galaxy, the local governments

It would be more accurate to say the Moffs are the local representatives of the Empire rather than a "local government". Indeed they are a rather recent and parallel system to the Imperial/Galactic Senate which the Empire has been hollowing out and intended to discard in ANH relying on fear of the station to keep systems in line and the planetary governors to serve as the regulatory apparatus.

In most cases, considering the seeming unpopularity of the Empire, they were the "local government" only to the extent of the line of sight of the Stormtrooper/Imperial Army garrisoned there. And once they could no longer count on a Star Destroyer showing up likely not even that.

With worlds either being overthrown by popular rebellion now that the Empire has been shown to be both leaderless and far from invulnerable, possibly aided by both the Republic and the Hutts for their own purposes and advantages in terms of supplied weapons, or abandoned due to being untenable in a galactic version of the fall of Saigon or the US retreat from Afghanistan.

I'm imagining the Outer Rim falling apart in 4-5 ABY again drawing parallels to the fall of the USSR and how the abused outer territories very rapidly succeeded from the Union when the "Evil Empire" no longer had the will or capacity to force their submission.

It is these new independent governments, as proxies for Republic/Hutt interests and opportunistic despots and likely everything in between, which I referred to the ex-imperials joining in exchange for food, steady paychecks and protection from being punished for warcrimes

In contrast, the EU Empire actually had an estimated 25,000 Imperial Class Star Destroyers alone in its entire navy by the time of the Battle of Yavin, most of which were permanently stationed in the Core. This doesn't include smaller vessels, such as Vindicator cruisers among others, which were actually the workhorse of the Imperial Navy.

The numbers we attach to the Empire don't really matter. They could have 25 ISDs or 25,000. What we do know, even in ANH, they were already fears of the Rebellion gaining sympathy in the Senate and becoming a threat to Tagge's starfleet. That there is concern of keeping the systems in line and the solution is not through conventional military like stormtroopers or ISDs but the Deathstar wunderwaffen.

That, in canon, the Empire lacked the force projection to prevent or persuade the rather obvious military support the Rebellion was receiving especially by ROTJ.

And of course you don't control a planet with ISDs anymore than the US could control a country with airpower. To do that you have to get down into the nitty-gritty and enforce your will through bloody infantry potentially turning every world into a Vietnam Quagmire.

After Endor, that vast military more often than not just followed the closest, highest-ranking military officer, hence the EU Empire fracturing rather than imploding.

Well the events of the EU aren't being questioned only how realistic such a turn of events were. As far as it goes I don't disagree about the Empire fracturing, I think that's a very likely outcome, or that the military would revert to following the next chain of command. That is kind of why a chain of command exists.

The issues are that fracturing into warlords makes the Empire(s) weaker than the sum of their parts making it harder for them to react to either the singular in vision Republic or rebellious uprisings taking place across the breadth of their territory. That an Empire so weak the Core abandons it is an Empire likely too weak to hold on anywhere.

Hence why I reject the analogy between the Empire and the Soviet Union, and find Imperial China more fitting. The dynasty collapsed, central authority has failed, and the various armies and fleets of the empire now follow generals, admirals, and governors vying for power.

For me, I'd say of the two the USSR is the more apt comparison. Both are, essentially, post-industrial nations who treated the outer periphery of their territory poorly for the inner core's own gain to a dickish degree. That post-industrial armies are far more dependent upon the industry of their nation-state compared to pre-industrial ones making warlords while not impossible more limited than the ancient world hence why we typically see such arraignments more in places like Africa rather than as a peer opponent you can fight a direct war with.

An Imperial warlord would need to guard its manufacturing and refining industries, less a Republic commando team or the irate local populace blow it up, its mining and resource extraction processes to fuel the former and its agriculture and livestock, less farmers burn/slaughter it in protest much like the Ukrainians did against the Soviet. All while engaged with the Republic, other Imperial warlords or newly formed local polities. A failure on any front would ensure it could no longer function as a modern state.

 

[Skallagrim]

[twenty minutes later]

"But President Palputin, how does this even relate to--"

"Well, isn't it clear? This is just another case of the Republic's educational institutions being co-opted by liberal ideologues who deny the truth of history. Fortunately, we have COMPNOR to correct that. You see, as I was saying, the rise of the Pius Dea cult is warped and wrongly perceived in the popular consciousness today, but actually a direct line can be drawn between the Crusades of Liberation and the Pacification of the Rim that my Empire undertook with decisive alacrity upon the foundation of the New Order. And similarly, the cowardly Recusal of the Jedi presaged their repeated flirtations with treason and sedition, until some two decades ago, it became evident to all intellectually honest historians..."


----------------------------


(I shamelessly stole this image from @Earl, and I'm not even sorry!)

 

[Allanon]

Look, folks, the biggest problem with "Star Wars" for some time was that no-talent losers took over. They have no writing skills, no sense of what made the original trilogy so great, or even the positive aspects of the prequels- nobody can deny that Darth Maul was a terrific villain, especially as the actor in real life was a skilled martial artist, and the beautiful new worlds. And you can do a lot worse than to have had the late Christopher Lee as a villain.

The Disney Sequels just had diversity making a beloved saga into yet another propaganda piece because- and do internalize this- cultural marxists cannot create, cannot imagine, all they can do is to infect something good and ruin it like a particularly deadly form of cancer.

Sure, it must end- but by then what will be left? On the cultural mainstream front we have lost, plain and simple. Heck, one guy who talks about pop culture suspects that drawn-out scene with the horse poop in the hideous "Pinnochio" remake was the animators saying "just so you know- we know what this is, too."

How must it be to have entered the animation field with starry-eyed hopes of creating classics like "The Lion King," "The Fox and the Hound," "Hercules," "Pocahantas," "The Great Mouse Detective," "The Little Mermaid..." movies you loved and which inspired you when you were young only to find yourself helping to turn out the toxic garbage passing itself off as Disney movies today? Disney is now ruining their own legacy.

I would not be a kid in today's dystopian society even if you put five million in cash in front of me right now. Kids today aren't being given something to cherish like earlier generations.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Respawn Entertainment is working on a Mandalorian based shooter game.

EXCLUSIVE - Respawn is Developing a First-Person Star Wars Mandalorian Game

Insider Gaming sources have revealed that Respawn Entertainment is developing a first-person Mandalorian game.

insider-gaming.com

Also... this is my sixteen thousandth post. Yippee!

 

[Zachowon]

I hope this is good

 

[DarthOne]

Won’t buy anything that will fill Disney’s pockets if I can help it.

 

[Typhonis]

 

[Lord Sovereign]

This is going to sound strange, but am I one of the few people who actually doesn’t mind the Ewoks and appreciates how they overcame that Imperial detachment?

I’m serious. The Ewok stratagem is far from unintelligent. They attack the enemy by surprise then quickly withdraw to entice a pursuit (which the arrogant Imperials fall for hook line and sinker), whereupon they use numbers, superior knowledge of terrain, and traps they’ve set to steadily whittle down the enemy’s numbers.

That way they not only laid waste to the garrison (at a very high cost I might add), but gave the Alliance commandos the time they needed to destroy the DSII’s shield generator.

The Ewok chieftain was no Sun Tzu, but he knew what he was doing and his warriors were willing to make the sacrifice for a free Galaxy.

 

[S'task]

This is going to sound strange, but am I one of the few people who actually doesn’t mind the Ewoks and appreciates how they overcame that Imperial detachment?

I’m serious. The Ewok stratagem is far from unintelligent. They attack the enemy by surprise then quickly withdraw to entice a pursuit (which the arrogant Imperials fall for hook line and sinker), whereupon they use numbers, superior knowledge of terrain, and traps they’ve set to steadily whittle down the enemy’s numbers.

That way they not only laid waste to the garrison (at a very high cost I might add), but gave the Alliance commandos the time they needed to destroy the DSII’s shield generator.

The Ewok chieftain was no Sun Tzu, but he knew what he was doing and his warriors were willing to make the sacrifice for a free Galaxy.

No, you're not. I always felt the Ewoks were well done and that nobody in that battle really screwed up per se. The Imperials clearly underestimated the Ewoks and the Ewoks had plenty of time to prepare traps designed against the strongest asset the Imperials had, the AT-STs. When you actually do the math, some of those traps the Ewoks used on the AT-STs involved some crazy amounts of Force such that yeah, no shit would an AT-ST get crushed. If I was remaking the movie today with the advantage of CGI over stop motion animation for those scenes the big thing I'd do differently is that one scene where the twin-falling log trap didn't go off perfectly coordinated and so have one log hit the AT-ST and knock it down and into the other falling log which would batter the AT-ST further but not crush it, just to emphasize how might mass those logs had.

Thing is, a lot of people dislike the Ewoks because they get hung up on "what could have been" as the Ewoks, initially, were meant to be Wookies, and they think it would have been way cooler to have a horde of Wookies fighting over the Ewoks.