Taiwan Torpedos Deal

[Husky_Khan]

U.S. Approves Sale of 18 MK 48 Mod 6AT Heavy Weight Torpedos to Taiwan - DefPost

The U.S. State Department has approved a possible sale of 18 MK 48 Mod 6 AT Heavy Weight Torpedoes (HWT) to Taiwan for an estimated cost of $180 million.

defpost.com

Apparently the sale of 18 Mark 48 Heavyweight Torpedos (and supporting infrastructure) has been approved to the Republic of China Navy for 180 million dollars. The RoC apparently has been wanting to buy these since the George W. Bush administration.

These torpedos are almost exclusively used by submarines and according to Wikipedia cost almost four million per torp.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

U.S. Approves Sale of 18 MK 48 Mod 6AT Heavy Weight Torpedos to Taiwan - DefPost

The U.S. State Department has approved a possible sale of 18 MK 48 Mod 6 AT Heavy Weight Torpedoes (HWT) to Taiwan for an estimated cost of $180 million.

defpost.com

Apparently the sale of 18 Mark 48 Heavyweight Torpedos (and supporting infrastructure) has been approved to the Republic of China Navy for 180 million dollars. The RoC apparently has been wanting to buy these since the George W. Bush administration.

These torpedos are almost exclusively used by submarines and according to Wikipedia cost almost four million per torp.

I still wonder where Tawain will get submarines worthy of such capable torpedoes. At this point they're probably better building that prodiction capability for themselves(presumably with US aid)and then selling submarines to other nations once they've built the number they want

 

[Husky_Khan]

I still wonder where Tawain will get submarines worthy of such capable torpedoes. At this point they're probably better building that prodiction capability for themselves(presumably with US aid)and then selling submarines to other nations once they've built the number they want

Can their current submarines not utilize these torpedo's?

Though there have been articles over the years about their indigenous submarine project since no one will sell them any...

Taiwan Unveils Model of Indigenously-Designed Diesel-Electric Attack Submarine

The model was revealed on May 9 during a groundbreaking ceremony for a submarine shipyard in the southern port city of Kaohsiung.

thediplomat.com

 

[Lord Sovereign]

As I understand it, for such a small country the Republic of China is in possession of a potent little battle fleet. Not enough to outright defeat the People's Republic but it would be a serious obstacle. The same could be said of its military in general, which I quite like; this lil fella can punch way above his weight.

Though there have been articles over the years about their indigenous submarine project since no one will sell them any...

Taiwan Unveils Model of Indigenously-Designed Diesel-Electric Attack Submarine

The model was revealed on May 9 during a groundbreaking ceremony for a submarine shipyard in the southern port city of Kaohsiung.

thediplomat.com

They've got two reasonably modern Dutch ones, but I'd be interested to see what a homegrown Taiwanese attack sub would look like. A few pairs of those lurking in the East China Sea would be very worrying for Beijing.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

As I understand it, for such a small country the Republic of China is in possession of a potent little battle fleet. Not enough to outright defeat the People's Republic but it would be a serious obstacle. The same could be said of its military in general, which I quite like; this lil fella can punch way above his weight.



They've got two reasonably modern Dutch ones, but I'd be interested to see what a homegrown Taiwanese attack sub would look like. A few pairs of those lurking in the East China Sea would be very worrying for Beijing.

Now if only the CIA hadn't blown their nuclear program in the 80s Tawain would be able to do what the Israelis and have a nuclear cruise missile based deterrent. At that point their independence would be effectively permanently secure.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Now if only the CIA hadn't blown their nuclear program in the 80s Tawain would be able to do what the Israelis and have a nuclear cruise missile based deterrent. At that point their independence would be effectively permanently secure.

You can't just keep saying these things and not offer details!

 

[Sailor.X]

As I understand it, for such a small country the Republic of China is in possession of a potent little battle fleet. Not enough to outright defeat the People's Republic but it would be a serious obstacle. The same could be said of its military in general, which I quite like; this lil fella can punch way above his weight.



They've got two reasonably modern Dutch ones, but I'd be interested to see what a homegrown Taiwanese attack sub would look like. A few pairs of those lurking in the East China Sea would be very worrying for Beijing.

You don't have to defeat the whole PRC Navy. You just have to kill their Aircraft Carrier. That alone will cause a major lost of face. And subs armed with those torps can most certainly kill that Carrier.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

You don't have to defeat the whole PRC Navy. You just have to kill their Aircraft Carrier. That alone will cause a major lost of face. And subs armed with those torps can most certainly kill that Carrier.

Good grief, isn't one of their carriers a fat relic of the Cold War? That's preferred target practice for subs.

Granted, the Chinese Navy is hardly a paper tiger either. They are very much going all in on "Chinese superpower" with it at the moment.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Good grief, isn't one of their carriers a fat relic of the Cold War?

It's basically their training wheels carrier, on which they learned the basics of carrier air wing operations. However all carriers, no matter how modern, are nothing but targets for the submarines, it's the task of the battle group that is built around it to prevent the submarines from reaching the targeting range.

 

[Scottty]

Just 18 torpedoes? That doesn't sound like many.
But at 4 million USD a shot they'd better be good.

 

[Marduk]

That's about usual price for hi end torpedos.
My guess would be that they are destined for these two, 9 each.

Hai Lung-class submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's about 1/4 of their ordnance capacity.
The rest of space would be divided between their old torpedos for easier or low priority targets, tube launched Harpoons and decoys.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

You can't just keep saying these things and not offer details!

One of the CIA's agents got information on the Taiwanese nuclear program being a serious thing when they where within two years of having the bomb but US forced them to stop via the threat of ceasing all military and economic aid and by assuring them we'd put them under our nuclear umbrella. And that's the rough details of what happened

 

[Sailor.X]

Good grief, isn't one of their carriers a fat relic of the Cold War? That's preferred target practice for subs.

Granted, the Chinese Navy is hardly a paper tiger either. They are very much going all in on "Chinese superpower" with it at the moment.

It doesn't matter if it is a Cold War relic. They have been hyping that ship to an extreme level in their media. Again go to ADV China and look at some of their older videos. They even made the CCP version of Top Gun based around that ship. So in the minds of the Chinese populous if that ship gets Yeeted by the Taiwan Navy. They WOULD lose face.

 

[Marduk]

Carriers would be more of prestige targets rather than priority ones, as the Chinese ones don't have great strike capability, while Taiwan is well within combat range of vastly more numerous land based aircraft from airbases around PRC coast.

These i think would be the priority targets:

Type 071 amphibious transport dock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Type 075 landing helicopter dock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If China can't land troops on Taiwan before it has to stop the war for one reason or another and hold at least some part of the island as a negotiation card, then is a total loss for them.

 

[Floridaman]

Good grief, isn't one of their carriers a fat relic of the Cold War? That's preferred target practice for subs.

Granted, the Chinese Navy is hardly a paper tiger either. They are very much going all in on "Chinese superpower" with it at the moment.

Yes, it was one of the Soviet kuznetsov class carriers it was originally named the varyag, so to summarize this is a cold war era jump carrier, and by the way Japan recently approved the conversion of two of their helicopter carriers to normal carriers using the f-35.

Japan takes first steps towards refurbishment of JMSDF destroyer Izumo - Naval News

Japan's Ministry of Defense (MoD) has announced in its FY2020 defense budget that it will invest 3.1 billion yen (approximately US $ 28.3 million) to refurbish the destroyer Izumo which is the largest vessel in Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF).

www.navalnews.com

 

[Husky_Khan]

Yes, it was one of the Soviet kuznetsov class carriers it was originally named the varyag, so to summarize this is a cold war era jump carrier, and by the way Japan recently approved the conversion of two of their helicopter carriers to normal carriers using the f-35.

Japan takes first steps towards refurbishment of JMSDF destroyer Izumo - Naval News

Japan's Ministry of Defense (MoD) has announced in its FY2020 defense budget that it will invest 3.1 billion yen (approximately US $ 28.3 million) to refurbish the destroyer Izumo which is the largest vessel in Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF).

www.navalnews.com

I remember people joking about the helicopter carriers not being carriers when it was first announced on Spacebattles! Those jokes have become reality now!

 

[Floridaman]

I remember people joking about the helicopter carriers not being carriers when it was first announced on Spacebattles! Those jokes have become reality now!

To be fair it was obvious that was the idea to begin with, it is way bigger than their normal helo carrier.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Yes, it was one of the Soviet kuznetsov class carriers it was originally named the varyag, so to summarize this is a cold war era jump carrier, and by the way Japan recently approved the conversion of two of their helicopter carriers to normal carriers using the f-35.

Japan takes first steps towards refurbishment of JMSDF destroyer Izumo - Naval News

Japan's Ministry of Defense (MoD) has announced in its FY2020 defense budget that it will invest 3.1 billion yen (approximately US $ 28.3 million) to refurbish the destroyer Izumo which is the largest vessel in Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF).

www.navalnews.com

I just did some googling about Izumo's size and my goodness she is essentially a Light Carrier on steroids. Factor in the Hyuga class as well (you could put some planes on that), and Japan has four potential Light Carriers, a full carrier squadron, if they'd stop pussyfooting around the situation.

As I understand it, the Japanese Navy is only eclipsed in the Pacific by the United States Navy itself. Given that this thread is about Taiwan, would the JMSDF come to its aid in times of war?

 

[Husky_Khan]

I just did some googling about Izumo's size and my goodness she is essentially a Light Carrier on steroids. Factor in the Hyuga class as well (you could put some planes on that), and Japan has four potential Light Carriers, a full carrier squadron, if they'd stop pussyfooting around the situation.

As I understand it, the Japanese Navy is only eclipsed in the Pacific by the United States Navy itself. Given that this thread is about Taiwan, would the JMSDF come to its aid in times of war?

It'd be tricky since any attack on Taiwan would trigger the United States to come to its defense and the United States most convenient bases would be in Japan. So China would have to decide to strike the US/Japanese facilities on Japanese soil and trigger Japan joining in the conflict or give the US a literal safe haven next door from which they can help sink the ChiCom Navy if and when it sorties out.

 

[Floridaman]

I just did some googling about Izumo's size and my goodness she is essentially a Light Carrier on steroids. Factor in the Hyuga class as well (you could put some planes on that), and Japan has four potential Light Carriers, a full carrier squadron, if they'd stop pussyfooting around the situation.

As I understand it, the Japanese Navy is only eclipsed in the Pacific by the United States Navy itself. Given that this thread is about Taiwan, would the JMSDF come to its aid in times of war?

Probably, yes Japan doesnt want China to be able to reach the open ocean, and if the US is involved Japn joins automatically