Tanks and other Armoured Vehicles Image thread.

[Jormungandr]

Modern reinterpretations of old 19th and 20th century vehicles, when things were still experimental, would be pretty cool projects.

The Imperial Russian Tsar Tank, for example, reminds me of something the CIS would use in Star Wars, lol.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Tank#/media/File:Tsar_tank_model.jpg
Just tech it up a bit.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Neat. Does it have a stats or tech sheet?

Given the visuals, that's a standard (not XLR) Leclerc tank turret paired with a Crotale NG anti-aircraft turret. So it would be packing a 120mm GIAT CN120-26/52 hypervelocity cannon, coaxial .50-caliber HMG, and eight Crotale VT-1 missiles.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Is the Leclerc even a good tank? No countries seem to be interested in buying it and France is already working on a replacement. It has a really weird design and crew placement about it.

 

[Doomsought]

I just spotted the location for those two the machine gun mounts on that superheavy, and it is a doozy. A sponsoon mount would be better.

Is the Leclerc even a good tank? No countries seem to be interested in buying it and France is already working on a replacement. It has a really weird design and crew placement about it.

Front engine mounts theoretically improves crew protection against frontal strikes, and allows you to have rear doors. Its common in APCs, and is a good design combramise for tank/APC hybrids like the merkva, but doesn't provide any substantial advantages for true tanks.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean, it is the newest of the western tanks in the sense they didn't make it till the 90s.
Where as the US and Germany had thiers in the 70s 80s

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Is the Leclerc even a good tank? No countries seem to be interested in buying it and France is already working on a replacement. It has a really weird design and crew placement about it.

The LeClerc is an excellent tank, with all-around performance generally exceeding the standard set by other current generation Western MBTs. The Leclerc was exported in substantial numbers to Jordan and the UAE, and also outscored all other options in Greece's competitive technical evaluations; the Greeks chose the Leopard 2A5 over it primarily for cost reasons.

As for replacement, the proposed replacement program is in the very early stages and would be a joint program with Germany, and would also replace the Leopard II which is pretty much the gold standard Western MBT.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I mean, it is the newest of the western tanks in the sense they didn't make it till the 90s.
Where as the US and Germany had thiers in the 70s 80s

Yes and no. While the Leclerc did not enter operational service until 1992, it traces its origin all the way back to the Engin Principal Prospectif design studies starting in 1964, with serious design work beginning by 1975. However, development was put on hold in 1980 in favor of a joint French-German MBT project (paralleling the late stage development of the Leopard II) and not restarted until 1986 when that project fell through.

 

[Zachowon]

Yes and no. While the Leclerc did not enter operational service until 1992, it traces its origin all the way back to the Engin Principal Prospectif design studies starting in 1964, with serious design work beginning by 1975. However, development was put on hold in 1980 in favor of a joint French-German MBT project (paralleling the late stage development of the Leopard II) and not restarted until 1986 when that project fell through.

I knew that it came about due to the fallout if the joint project .seems everyone stops doing joint stuff with Germany when it comes to tanks.

 

[Marduk]

Yeah, it is a good MBT, but not to a degree that would justify its exceptional sticker price by the standards of similar MBTs.
Not to mention that buying it would mean continuous dealing with the French.

I knew that it came about due to the fallout if the joint project .seems everyone stops doing joint stuff with Germany when it comes to tanks.

Huge joint military projects in Europe have a reputation about that stuff, see: Eurofighter.
It inevitably turns out that most partners have their own specific requirements that they don't consider viable to compromise on, and some of the partners just don't care and are in it just to get industry contracts for whatever parts their companies can supply. Politicking ensues, program becomes a mess.

 

[Zachowon]

Sounds about right.

 

[paulobrito]

Yeah, it is a good MBT, but not to a degree that would justify its exceptional sticker price by the standards of similar MBTs.
Not to mention that buying it would mean continuous dealing with the French.

Huge joint military projects in Europe have a reputation about that stuff, see: Eurofighter.
It inevitably turns out that most partners have their own specific requirements that they don't consider viable to compromise on, and some of the partners just don't care and are in it just to get industry contracts for whatever parts their companies can supply. Politicking ensues, program becomes a mess.

And Germany has a reputation for promising a lot just to get the factories (jobs) in Germany, and after that just going for the lowest and cheapest number/version. The others are just tired of that.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

And Germany has a reputation for promising a lot just to get the factories (jobs) in Germany, and after that just going for the lowest and cheapest number/version. The others are just tired of that.

It's like the F35...but with even more butts in the kitchen.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I knew that it came about due to the fallout if the joint project .seems everyone stops doing joint stuff with Germany when it comes to tanks.

In the case of the joint French-German MBT program, the timing suggests that Germany was hedging against any potential issues with the Leopard 2 program (which despite its towering reputation was developed as a relatively modest, low-risk upgrade over the Leo 1), so they were never really participating in good faith and bailed as soon as they were confident the Leo 2 was going to be "good enough".

 

[Jormungandr]

Yes and no. While the Leclerc did not enter operational service until 1992, it traces its origin all the way back to the Engin Principal Prospectif design studies starting in 1964, with serious design work beginning by 1975. However, development was put on hold in 1980 in favor of a joint French-German MBT project (paralleling the late stage development of the Leopard II) and not restarted until 1986 when that project fell through.

IIRC wasn't it related to the aborted American--German Abrams technological predecessor, the MBT-70? After canning the 70, they worked on the Leopard?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

IIRC wasn't it related to the aborted American--German Abrams technological predecessor, the MBT-70? After canning the 70, they worked on the Leopard?

It's a little weird -- the German end of it appears to have been a completely separate project from the Leopard 2, initiated at a point where the Leo 2 was already well into its development cycle but had not yet been formally adopted and greenlighted for mass production. That timing is why I conclude that the Germans probably agreed to it as a hedge against the Leo 2 not being as good as they wanted.

 

[BF110C4]

It's a little weird -- the German end of it appears to have been a completely separate project from the Leopard 2, initiated at a point where the Leo 2 was already well into its development cycle but had not yet been formally adopted and greenlighted for mass production. That timing is why I conclude that the Germans probably agreed to it as a hedge against the Leo 2 not being as good as they wanted.

Also as a form of industrial espionage. See something good in the joint project, add something similar (but different enough not to get into a patent dispute) to the Leo2.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Also as a form of industrial espionage. See something good in the joint project, add something similar (but different enough not to get into a patent dispute) to the Leo2.

That's less likely given how early into development the joint project was -- they hadn't reached the phase of anything being concretely developed by the time the Germans decided to commit to Leo 2 and bailed.

 

[Bacle]

So at least one Hetzer continues to Hetz.

 

[Aldarion]

So at least one Hetzer continues to Hetz.

 

[Agent23]

GuP but why the hell are the waifus missing!!!