The Right and White Nationalism - An annoying cancer

Literally what? The US was started in an illegitimate tax revolt against a God given and anointed King.
. . . OK, so, this narrative is bunk, historically illiterate, and I've completely deconstructed the timeline on the American Revolution before here: (1) History - The Morality of the American Revolution | Page 4 | The Sietch (the-sietch.com)

But since you're probably going to be to lazy click through and read that, here, I'll just repost everything I wrote then, which even specifically addresses this idea:

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OK... so...

I've been sitting this out, but I feel that there appears to be a hyper narrow focus on the action of the mid 1770s, ignoring the decade of political back and forth of the prior decade between Parliament and the American Colonies.

Firstly, as has been noted, everything does trace back to the aftermath of the French and Indian War (Seven Years War for the more boring British name). The first major issue that began causing problems was the reinforcement of the British Navigation Acts in 1763. These acts inherently set the groundwork for the issues that would later unfold, in that it greatly restricted who the colonies could trade with and also required that the colonies had to import THROUGH England. These were mercantilist policies that inherently structured trade in such a way as to benefit England at the expense of the colonies.

After this you had a series of taxes that were placed and enforced on the colonies. Most of these were reasonable on their face, though they did directly harm the economy of the colonies in that they raised the cost of certain businesses. But it wasn't until 1765 and the Stamp Act that we get into some seriously overzealous taxes that were not merely designed to raise revenue but hinder the growth of the colonies in ways the British disliked. For example, the Stamp Act reserved its highest costs, £10, for attorney licenses (which, you must understand, is a ridiculously high price when you had many common jobs paying less than a £ a day), which served to hinder the growth of a native professional class in the colonies. Further, pretty much EVERYTHING paper was taxed, so this added a cost to the lives of everyday people in their daily business that was a constant reminder of Parliament's taxing them without representation or consent.

Also in 1765, well before any real colonial rebellious sentiment even had gotten started, Parliament also passed the Quartering Acts, which allowed the British military to quarter their soldiers pretty much anywhere they wanted while forcing the costs of such quartering onto the local governments, none of whom wanted those troops stationed in the colonies with the end of the war. Basically, with this law Parliament said the colonies not only had to house the soldiers stationed there "for reasons" and that they would have to pay for it. This caused further tension between the colonies and Parliament for no real benefit to ANYONE involved.

In response to these the colonies began to take purely political actions to protest. The Colony of Virginia, previously long loyal to the crown, met and passed the Virginia Resolves, which laid out Virginia's case that direct taxation upon them violated their rights as Englishmen:
Resolved, that the first adventurers and settlers of His Majesty's colony and dominion of Virginia brought with them and transmitted to their posterity, and all other His Majesty's subjects since inhabiting in this His Majesty's said colony, all the liberties, privileges, franchises, and immunities that have at any time been held, enjoyed, and possessed by the people of Great Britain.

Resolved, that by two royal charters, granted by King James I, the colonists aforesaid are declared entitled to all liberties, privileges, and immunities of denizens and natural subjects to all intents and purposes as if they had been abiding and born within the Realm of England.

Note that these assertions are true. The first Royal Charter of Virginia, issued in 1606 contained the following clause:
Virginia Charter of 1606 said:
Also we do, for Us, our Heirs, and Successors, DECLARE, by these Presents, that all and every the Persons being our Subjects, which shall dwell and inhabit within every or any of the said several Colonies and Plantations, and every of their children, which shall happen to be born within any of the Limits and Precincts of the said several Colonies and Plantations, shall HAVE and enjoy all Liberties, Franchises, and Immunities, within any of our other Dominions, to all Intents and Purposes, as if they had been abiding and born, within this our Realm of England, or any other of our said Dominions.

This language was maintained in the second charter. This language was not unique to Virginia either, though here I will focus on it since Virginia was the one who passed the resolution. Basically, the Virginia colony argued that, unlike what has been argued here, that the colonies had not, in fact, been formed to be seen as subject colonies but rather peer domains of England and thus the citizens of the colony of Virginia had the same rights as native born Englishmen.

Now, back to the Virginia Resolve:

Resolved, that the taxation of the people by themselves, or by persons chosen by themselves to represent them, who can only know what taxes the people are able to bear, or the easiest method of raising them, and must themselves be affected by every tax laid on the people, is the only security against a burdensome taxation, and the distinguishing characteristic of British freedom, without which the ancient constitution cannot exist.

Resolved, that His Majesty's liege people of this his most ancient and loyal colony have without interruption enjoyed the inestimable right of being governed by such laws, respecting their internal policy and taxation, as are derived from their own consent, with the approbation of their sovereign, or his substitute; and that the same has never been forfeited or yielded up, but has been constantly recognized by the kings and people of Great Britain.

Further beyond this, the colonies rallied together and formed the Stamp Act Congress which put together the Declaration of Rights and Grievances which the colonies sent to England for their consideration. Further, the colonists also took to boycotting English goods as much as they humanly could, which did have significant impact on English merchants who did business with the colonies and, likewise, greatly reduced the revenue the taxes were meant to collect.

Which the British even refused to do, rather than negotiate or even discuss the matter it was dismissed out of hand and while due to local ENGLISH opposition to the Stamp Act (those aforementioned merchants that the colonists were boycotting) saw it repealed, Parliament decided to make sure the uppity colonies knew their place and passed The Declaratory Act of 1766. While the American colonists celebrated their victory over the Stamp Act, some were very concerned with the language of the Declaratory Act, as it was almost word to word identical to the prior Declaratory Act of 1719 which saw the start of some of the most sever Irish repression by the British and eventual reduction of the Irish to a second class colony of England.

The next year saw the passage of yet another set of economically and politically damaging to the colonies acts passed by the Parliament, the Townshend Acts. Please note that so far there was no ongoing violence in the colonies regarding English rule and that the colonies had resorted to purely non-violent forms of protest: petition and boycott. Yet the Townshend Acts were considerably harsher. Starting with the New York Restraining Act, which basically sought to force New York to comply with the earlier mentioned quartering act. This one I'll grant is arguable, assuming you presume that you find the earlier Quartering Act just, New York's failure to enforce it obviously needed to be addressed.

Moving to the others, the Revenue Act of 1767 again placed new taxes on colonial goods, and while that was controversial, the bigger issue came from the use of Writs of Assistance in enforcing these acts, as these writs allowed the personal property of the colonists to be searched without reason or warrant, which was long considered a violation of rights of Englishmen, as laid out in Semayne's Case (1604) and Entick v. Carrington (1765).

Now we get into what is arguably the most corrupt of the Townshend Acts, the "The Indemnity Act". This one is simply government cronyism at its finest, as it basically carved out a special exception on import taxes on tea for the British East India Company in order to shore up their financial situation, which was on the verge of collapse and Parliament couldn't have that since they were too big to fail. Meanwhile this inherently destroyed any ability of colonial traders to compete, as the BEIC tea would ALWAYS cost less than either the legitimately imported tea from England by local traders, or the Dutch tea brought in by traders who refused to cooperate with mercantilist policies (*cough*smugglers*cough*).

Perhaps the least harmful and most understandable of these acts was the Commissioners of Customs Act, which just established local Customs boards to enable the enforcement of British trade law more locally. Given the distances involved at the time this was a pretty reasonable thing to do.

The final Townshend Act though is perhaps the most tyrannical, and that was the Vice Admiralty Court Act. This act altered the jurisdiction of smuggling cases from colonial courts to Royal Naval Courts. This might seem reasonable on its surface, after all, smuggling in the colonies was predominately a naval affair; however, the act did not stop there. Firstly, these Courts were judged not by juries, but by judges appointed by the crown. This alone would be considered a violation of the right to jury that was afforded to all freemen in England since at least 1641, but it gets worse, not only were these judges empowered to hear and judge cases without trial by jury, they were also awarded 5% of any fine the judge levied when they found someone guilty. In other words, the judges were financially incentivized to issue guilty verdicts regardless of the facts of the case.

In response to the Townshend Acts, the Massachusetts Bay Colony passed the

Massachusetts Circular Letter in 1768, which argued against direct taxation by Parliament and that the situation should be returned to the status of benign neglect as had been previous. Once again, note the timing and actions here, the colonists have yet to truly take any rebellious action, they instead petition and speak, and seek to deescalate the situation. In response to the circular letter, the Secretary of State for the Colonies ordered the Massachusetts' General Court to repeal the letter and ordered the other colonial governments to not endorse the letter. Note what this exactly is, this is a politician in England ordering a colonial governments, which were elected representative bodies expected to represent the will of the people to repeal or not sign onto a petition. The General Court refused to do so, and other colonies further did sign on anyway. Once again, the colonists acted within the bounds of law, exercised peaceful assembly, petition, and speech, and what response did the British do this time?

Well, in 1768 the Royally appointed governor of the Massachusetts Bay colony dissolved the duly elected Massachusetts General Court. This finally led to widespread riots specifically in Boston which, along with the earlier dislike of the Townshend acts, caused the British to station further troops in Boston in order to maintain a public order which they had disrupted.

Things were mostly quiet until 1770 until a confrontation between a British sentry and some locals grew out of hand and a mob began pelting the British soldiers with stones, which then led to a discharge of firearms, leading to five deaths. The so-called "Boston Massacre". The most interesting thing about this entire affair, despite how clearly it indicates how badly tensions had risen and the situation turning toxic, is not in the violence but in the aftermath. The resulting trial undertaken by the local Massachusetts government was, by all accounts, fair, and in interest of ensuring that fair trial, the British soldiers were represented by a leading colonial lawyer, Sons of Liberty member, and future President John Adams, who not only argued for their innocence but succeeded in exonerating six of the eight convicted and had the remaining two soldiers charged with murder reduced to manslaughter with a further reduced sentence. Note that this was a jury by local Bostonians who had no love for the British soldiers, even under these heightened tensions, rule of law was being maintained by both sides.

In an interesting historical coincidence, the same day the Boston Massacre happened, Parliament kind of sort of repealed the Townshend Acts. They left in place the Tea Tax exception for the BEIC and the creation of the local Custom Boards.

Through 1773 tensions continued to rise. Numerous local incidents sprung up regarding local vs Parliamentary rule, but most were at worst riots and mostly just protests. But in 1773 things took a decidedly downward turn when, once again Parliament decided to take an action. Once again, in order to benefit the British East India Company, which had made poor financial decisions and imported more tea than demand in England required, thus costing them considerable money, passed the Tea Act. This mercantilist and cronyist act went beyond the Townshend acts and gave the BEIC considerable benefits that no other English trader had in the tea trade. Businessmen in the colonies who deal with tea knew that this would put them out of business entirely and so organized efforts to refuse the tea entry into the colonies. Most of these efforts were peaceful, simply refusing to let BEIC ships offload tea in colonial ports along with, once again, boycotting of British goods. However, one group of Bostonians took the matter farther, leading to potentially the most financial damaging act of vandalism in modern times: the Boston Tea Party.

Now, let's not beat around the bush, the Boston Tea Party was absolutely a crime. Specifically, as I called it, vandalism. This was even recognized by some of the leading colonial secessionists of the time, with none other than Ben Franklin saying that the cost of the tea destroyed should be paid back (a considerable sum of £9,000. Some colonial merchants even offered to pay for the destroyed tea but were refused.

Instead, Parliament reacted in with a series of acts. Please note that while at this point a crime had taken place, there was no truly open rebellion, and while some parties were pushing for secession from England at this point, they had not taken up arms or done anything worse than destroy a symbolic luxury good.

Now, an aside. Let's talk about crime and punishment. It is a long considered human principle that punishment must fit the crime and be proportionate to the damage caused by the crime. This is the underlying principle of "and eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" punishment fitting the crime and in proportion to the damage caused. Punishments in excess of a crime committed are, under western religious and philosophical tradition, considered unjust and acts of tyranny, being sure signs that a government is no longer acting in the interests of the governed and no longer has legitimate right to rule. Another core aspect of justice is that the innocent should not be punished for the acts of the guilty and that people are considered innocent until proven guilty. These principles have long, LONG history in Western law, being drawn from ancient legal philosophy of the Romans, Jews, and Canon law.

So, Parliament passed the following Acts in response to the vandalism of British East India Company property. First was Boston Port Act, this act closed the port of Boston to all trade, punishing everyone in Boston for the acts of a small subset of them.

But that was not the only collective punishment Parliament undertook, they further passed the Massachusetts Government Act which functionally abolished local self-rule of the colony and prohibited Town Hall meetings without the royally appointed governor's assent. Once again punishing all of Massachusetts for the action of a small subset.

Not content with just punishing Massachusetts it also set out to insult them by passing the "Administration of Justice Act" which allowed royal governors to alter the venue of a trial from the local courts to any other jurisdiction, while requiring witnesses and lawyers for both sides to attend in the new venue. This basically was an arrangement to guarantee that a trial would be in a court favorable to the crown. Note how this act especially was a middle finger to Massachusetts in that only a few years before they had held a fair trial for British soldiers in heightened tensions.

Next, in application to all the colonies, the British passed The Quartering Act of 1774, which again had all the same problems as the earlier Quartering Act.

In response to these acts, the Colonies did not yet take up arms, rather, once again, they sought to boycotts and petition with the Suffolk Resolves and the Petition to the King.

So, a quick aside, with all this going on, it should be noted that while Parliament kept passing these laws, there WAS vocal opposition to these acts in that body. PM Edmund Burke spoke EXTENSIVELY in favor of the colonial position on many of these matters, arguing for peace and reconciliation and arguing that the colonists were correct in their understanding of their status as Englishmen with all the rights that entailed.

However, despite all this, despite not having taken up arms against the Crown, the British would not back down. Seeking to seize the private property of local militia, British troops from Boston marched to the militia storehouses in Lexington and Concord. At this point, with the attempt to unlawfully seize private assets and the means of self-defense of themselves and their families (which was, again, a violation of basic English rights of the time), did the colonists finally truly react with violence, with the Battle of Lexington and Concord. Meanwhile, in Virginia, the local governor attempted to do the same thing in a colony without this same long history of back and forth with Parliament as Massachusetts had, which was also rebuffed by local efforts and forced the royal governor to flee the colony.

So, while there is certain one criminal act on the part of the Bostonians, the actions before that and reaction by Parliament, by ignoring the colonial charters guaranteeing them the same rights as Englishmen, collective and disproportionate punishment to said crime, and then finally bringing the issue to boil by attempting to seize private arms in violation of both the natural right to self-defense and the rights of men under English common law, clearly showcase that it was the British Parliament that escalated the situation, that violated the rights of the colonists, and generally acted immorally throughout the entire affair. Meanwhile up until the very last, the colonists used non-violent means to protest these decision, seeking redress via peaceful petition and boycott, and only in the last few years after a decade of continual escalation on the part of Parliament, did open violence result.

I cannot see how it can be presumed that Parliament was moral in doing this, unless one accepts the presumption of pure Parliamentary supremacy, as the acts of Parliament clearly contravened both Monarchical decrees, in the form of the Royal colonial charters, and general republican principles of representation in government. Despite the rhetoric of the day, it was not, in fact, the Crown, the monarch, that was the leading figure in pushing these laws against the America colonies, rather, it was the Parliament doing so seeking to assert its dominance, and it was opposed in this act not just by the colonists, but even by members of its own body who recognized the actions being taken by the Parliament were unjust.
 
America isn’t Rome, America is Carthage

I know Protestants drowned bitches and set orphans on fire but it wasn't to Baal bro :ROFLMAO:

While I would rejoice to see the Stuarts retake their place;

Considering Obama and 90% of the Neocon leadership are Stuarts; you sure about that?

That seed kinda went raw.

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Leave him in the 2000s where that kinda regurgitation was still scene as profound and not the actions of a low information skeptard whose fetishization of secularism borders on the religious zealotry of ISIS.
 
Modern Americans sacrifice their children to Mammon, not Baal.
Is it wrong that I get this joke? Eugh. Also just to add my irrelevant two cents for the sake of it I see no problem with people taking pride in their heritage. As long as they take pride in the appropriate stages, namely their own accomplishments, their family's, their forefathers, their culture's and maybe their melanin count stands a bit before humanity in general. Because really I've seen Ethiopians whiter than Elizabeth Warren and I'm probabaly darker skinned than half the African Americans in congress.

People lump things into White and Black or insert color here instead of actual heritage and culture. Seriously you guys think Indians separate their culture groups on melanin? My family would count as multiracial if you just went by how dark every member is and none of us have a non Indian ancestor since likely the first bunch of rice farmers to fart while swimming in the ganges.
 
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Doesn’t coloration correlate pretty strongly with both caste and Northern/Southern which in turn correlates with broad cultural group in India?
Heh, in as much as people who spend most of their time indoors turn out paler. There is something to the North South thing in that the North is cooler and people tend to be white there because of that including ethnically. Mixed with haveing more Mughal blood but honestly? Not that strong a correlation or atleast a lot of exceptions. And contrary to popular or even popular scholarly opinions the casts thing weren't really that fixed until relatively recently historical time scale wise.

That and we tend to have a lot more lenient level of sun tolerance when it comes to tans. Seriously I spend a couple years in Michigan I turn out whiter than my mom, I go back to India for 3 months I turn out darker than the Hodge Twins.

People tend to have a bit of double think when it comes to timescales I find. Like for all the talk about how the whole conquest of America thing being treated as recent history while Columbus predates the freaking Mughal Empire.
 
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Say what you will, but the Lakota fought on, even after it was hopeless. They also slaughtered two men who both claimed that with 80 men they could ride through the whole Sioux nation, along with the fools who followed them.
 
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Say what you will, but the Lakota fought on, even after it was hopeless. They also slaughtered two men who both claimed that with 80 men they could right through the whole Sioux nation, along with the fools who followed them.
And Pakistan is probably a good indicator or reference for what would have happened if Malcolm X got his way. Woop woop woop! (Zoidberg reference, not sure about spelling)
 
I cannot see how it can be presumed that Parliament was moral in doing this, unless one accepts the presumption of pure Parliamentary supremacy, as the acts of Parliament clearly contravened both Monarchical decrees, in the form of the Royal colonial charters, and general republican principles of representation in government. Despite the rhetoric of the day, it was not, in fact, the Crown, the monarch, that was the leading figure in pushing these laws against the America colonies, rather, it was the Parliament doing so seeking to assert its dominance, and it was opposed in this act not just by the colonists, but even by members of its own body who recognized the actions being taken by the Parliament were unjust.

Weren't British decrees also Parliamentary, though?
 
Say what you will, but the Lakota fought on, even after it was hopeless. They also slaughtered two men who both claimed that with 80 men they could ride through the whole Sioux nation, along with the fools who followed them.

It's hilarious how often nonwhite "civic nationalists" in fact identify extremely strongly with their race and identity.

Not that this is a bad thing of course- it's perfectly healthy and normal.

Heh, in as much as people who spend most of their time indoors turn out paler. There is something to the North South thing in that the North is cooler and people tend to be white there because of that including ethnically. Mixed with haveing more Mughal blood but honestly? Not that strong a correlation or atleast a lot of exceptions.

I thought it was more than that, IIRC studies have shown correlation of caste with coloration beyond just what goes along with indoor vs outdoor labor, and Indian ethnic groups with speak predominantly Hindi and related languages (Ancestral North Indians) are notably lighter than ethnic groups with speak Dravidian languages (Ancestral South Indians). I'm not saying there are no exceptions of course.

I do agree with you @Abhishekm on the necessity in having the appropriate stages and distance. While I think the media overplays the extent to which pride in heritage is actually used as an cope for personal failure, it is a failure mode to be aware of. You cannot truly honor your forefathers accomplishments and sacrifice without your own accomplishments and sacrifice.
 
I thought it was more than that, IIRC studies have shown correlation of caste with coloration beyond just what goes along with indoor vs outdoor labor, and Indian ethnic groups with speak predominantly Hindi and related languages (Ancestral North Indians) are notably lighter than ethnic groups with speak Dravidian languages (Ancestral South Indians). I'm not saying there are no exceptions of course.
Ah yes, but the thing is thats a selective thing. In that culturally dark skin is taken for people who spend more time in the field and lighter skin for people affluent enough to not work in the hot sun so to speak. Give it a couple thousand years and you can guess a bit of the results. I mean women and even men still use skin care products in India almost as much as women in the west honestly.

Not really a race thing more of a status thing. But not really what that would connotate in the west I guess? Probabaly not explaining that well honestly.

I mean I'm South Indian and I noted the North versus South thing too but again the North of India is generally a lot cooler than the South and has a lot more mughal blood than the South too. Aryan (literal) versus Dravidian culture groups so to say.

That said Casts were a historical job class thing and incast groups can vary from the head priest of the main temple in the capital to a rural of rural shrine priest in a village with less than 100 people being both of the same (upper just below royalty) cast.

Simple terms think of Indias Caste system as the first and shittiest of all Unions in history.
 
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It's hilarious how often nonwhite "civic nationalists" in fact identify extremely strongly with their race and identity.

Not that this is a bad thing of course- it's perfectly healthy and normal.
I don't know where you got the idea from me that I was somehow anti-white. After all, that is also part of my heritage. I'm also the type of person who would have been going around putting up "it's okay to be white" posters if I was still going to college at the time that was a thing. The only problem I have is with white nationalists who basically hate the fact that people like me exist. The reason I bring up the Lakota fighting for what was theirs is because of all the people basically saying to give everything up and let it all burn, and I say, no, be like King Theodin - even if you cannot win, make them a fight anyway. "For wrath, for ruin, and the red dawn!" as he would say. "Strong hearts and the brave to the front; weak hearts and cowards to the rear! Today is a good day to fight! Today is a good day to die!" as Crazy Horse once said.
 
I did not call you anti-White. I did call you nonwhite, since my understanding is that you are not White and do not consider yourself White, and my statement was intended to be general and apply beyond just American Indians and their descendants. If I did think you were anti-White, I would not have said "not that this is a bad thing."

I wasn't sure what you were responding to there, so thanks for clarifying, since I was not totally sure what you meant by it.

I agree with you that one should fight to the last to defend ones nation- meaning their people and their homeland. I do not think this entails supporting a current crop of politicians or even a system of government, especially if said politicians and system of government have ceased to do so or even work in ways that are contrary to their people's interests, or are not of their people. On the subject of death or glory speeches, I'll note that typically sentiments of loyalty to the current system entail less action, not more.
 
It's hilarious how often nonwhite "civic nationalists" in fact identify extremely strongly with their race and identity.

Not that this is a bad thing of course- it's perfectly healthy and normal.
What do you mean by identify?

I'm Japanese. I'm proud of being Japanese, and fundamentally dislike being called Asian because Asian is not an identity, but something forced on us by either the Chinese or the intersectional left. But that doesn't mean that I think it's stronger than my loyalty to the United States. If anything, there's no conflict at all especially as I think Japan should continue to remain strongly bound and friendly towards the United States. My loyalty is to this country first and foremost, in contrast to certain individuals who seem to think that their loyalty is conditional on the US being white or Christian.

To me, it's really pretty simple. We are Americans and America is the greatest nation in the world, the leading light among the civilized people. But anyone who wants to and can contribute can become an American. We aren't stinking Europeans with their idiotic thing where only those with French "blood" can be French or whatever.
 
What do you mean by identify?

I'm Japanese. I'm proud of being Japanese, and fundamentally dislike being called Asian because Asian is not an identity, but something forced on us by either the Chinese or the intersectional left. But that doesn't mean that I think it's stronger than my loyalty to the United States. If anything, there's no conflict at all especially as I think Japan should continue to remain strongly bound and friendly towards the United States. My loyalty is to this country first and foremost, in contrast to certain individuals who seem to think that their loyalty is conditional on the US being white or Christian.

To me, it's really pretty simple. We are Americans and America is the greatest nation in the world, the leading light among the civilized people. But anyone who wants to and can contribute can become an American. We aren't stinking Europeans with their idiotic thing where only those with French "blood" can be French or whatever.
While I agree with most of this, you need to condition the part about becoming an American on said person going through the legal immigration process.

Just because someone hops the border, or pays a smuggler to sneak them in, does not make them an American, nor does it entitle thier anchor-babies to American citizenship.
 
This is the part that causes such a mess because it does because US citizenship is Constitutionally defined as "born to American Citizens or on American soil". There's a small island with no permanent inhabitants in an interesting legal grey area that counts for this.
No, it does not, unless one of the parents is already an American citizen.

One parent must be 'under US jurisdiction' for birthright citizenship to apply.

If neither parent is 'under US jurisdiction' before the child is born, the child is not entitled to US citizenship simply because the parents smuggled themselves into US soil.
 
No, it does not, unless one of the parents is already an American citizen.

One parent must be 'under US jurisdiction' for birthright citizenship to apply.

If neither parent is 'under US jurisdiction' before the child is born, the child is not entitled to US citizenship simply because the parents smuggled themselves into US soil.
But legally they are under US jurisdiction if they are on US soil. If an illegal immigrant has tons of cocaine on them, you aren't just going to pick them up and dump them outside the country and that's that. No you try him and then if he is convicted make him spend years in jail, paying for his upkeep, and THEN you deport him back where he came from. Truly the logical and intelligent thing to do.
 

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