Breaking News The Twitter Files: Now on Covid Suppression

[Abhorsen]

I'm being realistic, based on what I've seen and experienced.

No, the thing is you aren't. You are being dumb. American history is littered with worse situations that we came back from. They all managed to win.

Here's why you are wrong:

Outside of deep red areas, the GOP isn't a savior, it's at best the slightly less evil, and the Dems may as well control it's leadership.

Your belief that politics is how you win is wrong. None of those movements focused on elections/laws until they were already winning in the public sphere. And before you say 'but the media': the media was also against those movements in the beginning. Winning the media was part of those movements, whether that meant setting up alternate outlets or later taking over existing ones.

Get out of your myopic, 'woe is me, this is the worst evah' self-centered view of history: Yes, the powers that be are shit. They always have been. You can still win using the usual American process: local organizing, protests, and getting people involved.

Seriously, grow the fuck up and do something about this, or stop complaining.

 

[Bacle]

No, the thing is you aren't. You are being dumb. American history is littered with worse situations that we came back from. They all managed to win.

Here's why you are wrong:

Your belief that politics is how you win is wrong. None of those movements focused on elections/laws until they were already winning in the public sphere. And before you say 'but the media': the media was also against those movements in the beginning. Winning the media was part of those movements, whether that meant setting up alternate outlets or later taking over existing ones.

Get out of your myopic, 'woe is me, this is the worst evah' self-centered view of history: Yes, the powers that be are shit. They always have been. You can still win using the usual American process: local organizing, protests, and getting people involved.

Seriously, grow the fuck up and do something about this, or stop complaining.

MOTHERFUCKER I HAVE TRIED AND IT HAS COST ME THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS I NEEDED AND MOST OF MY IRL FRIENDSHIPS AND FAMILY RESPECT!

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I SACRIFICED FOR TRUMP, THE RIGHT, AND PEOPLE LIKE THE FOUNDERS/MODS OF THIS SITE!

AND THE THING IS MANY OF YOU FOUNDERS AND MODS KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE FUCK I WAS DEALING WITH BEFORE DURING THE WU FLU, ASIDE FROM POLITICS.

 

[Abhorsen]

MOTHERFUCKER I HAVE TRIED AND IT HAS COST ME THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS I NEEDED AND MOST OF MY IRL FRIENDSHIPS AND FAMILY RESPECT!

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I SACRIFICED FOR TRUMP, THE RIGHT, AND PEOPLE LIKE THE FOUNDERS/MODS OF THIS SITE!

AND THE THING IS MANY OF YOU FOUNDERS AND MODS KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE FUCK I WAS DEALING WITH BEFORE DURING THE WU FLU, ASIDE FROM POLITICS.

First, I don't know much about you at all, only the stuff I see that you post on the site. I'm not a founder, I joined the forum later than many.

Second, you had then the same problem as now: a certainty that politics would save you. Trump will not save you, nor will DeSantis. Community organizing and bottom up recruiting is the way it has worked successfully in the past, and the way it'll work this time.

Third, spreading your doomerism is still short sighted and a self centered view of history. Thinking it's the end times is how you just end up hurting things, both for yourself, and for whatever you believe in.

 

[Bacle]

First, I don't know much about you at all, only the stuff I see that you post on the site. I'm not a founder, I joined the forum later than many.

Second, you had then the same problem as now: a certainty that politics would save you. Trump will not save you, nor will DeSantis. Community organizing and bottom up recruiting is the way it has worked successfully in the past, and the way it'll work this time.

Third, spreading your doomerism is still short sighted and a self centered view of history. Thinking it's the end times is how you just end up hurting things, both for yourself, and for whatever you believe in.

Did I say it was the end times? No.

I just said that in terms of return on investment, it may be more useful and practical to attempt to subvert/change the course of the Dems and defang the Far-Left from the inside, rather than rely on the GOP to fix shit.

And you can thank your Libertarian Party for helping convince me of this.

Because Libertarians showed they'd rather spoil a luke-warm GOP candidate for a Dem of nearly any stripe, then hold their nose to help the only other real game in own.

And Manchin and Sinema showed that it's easier to split the Dems when it comes to stopping or slowing insanity than to make the GOP a worthwhile return on investment.

So all together 2016-2022 showed that GOP competence is fluke, Dems have effectively rigged the game outside SCOTUS, and the Libertarians will spoil the GOP candidate more often than the Dem candidate.

And not caring about politics is not an option, nor am I inclined to sacrifice more of what little I have left for a cause that is not of my choosing or under my ability to control.

And sorry, I thought you had been in the PM/Discord from SB under a different name, but hadn't got the founders title; that's my mistake.

 

[Abhorsen]

Did I say it was the end times? No.

You act like it.

And you can thank your Libertarian Party for helping convince me of this.

Because Libertarians showed they'd rather spoil a luke-warm GOP candidate for a Dem of nearly any stripe, then hold their nose to help the only other real game in own.

Your 'lukewarm GOP candidate' is no different than a Dem to us libertarians, because, shocker, we aren't Republicans (notice that we went and made a whole different party to get this point across?). We are anti war. We are against the government. You aren't. That's fine, but we are also fine not being seen as a vehicle for your set of beliefs.

The few 'Pubs that actually are different, we do support. We aren't about to run a candidate against Massie, for example. The libertarian candidate for the Arizona Senate seat dropped out lest he spoil it.

And not caring about politics is not an option, nor am I inclined to sacrifice more of what little I have left for a cause that is not of my choosing or under my ability to control.

Those ideas are in conflict to each other. National politics will always be far outside your control. Things that are in your power are local organizing.

 

[Ixian]

Quit this defeatest surrender monkey talk, it's pathetic and shows a complete ignorance of American history. We've had groups in worse situations before, and they've managed to overcome. Get a fucking hold of yourselves, jesus.

Gun control is dying by both law and practicality. People are moving around the country to places that better suit themselves, the twitter files are literally just being released, etc.

You are being overly optimistic. We have solid, undeniable proof of government directed mass violations of our civil rights, and nothing is being done, and slightly over half the nation refuses to believe.

Then the past few elections have been... heavily suspicious. Followed by the leftwing increasingly encouraging violence directed at their political enemies.

I mean fuck, the police are literally providing security for nearly naked men to dance in front of children.

Also gun control isn't "dying" basically every blue state has completely ignored the recent supreme court rulings, and in some areas are actually tightening gun control.

The problems we are facing aren't going to be solved with discussion, or even at the ballot box.

 

[Abhorsen]

You are being overly optimistic. We have solid, undeniable proof of government directed mass violations of our civil rights, and nothing is being done, and slightly over half the nation refuses to believe.

A) we literally just got incontrovertable proof about it. Maybe give it time?

B) Again, we've been in much worse situations. We had slavery enforced by laws, mass lynchings ignored by police, forcible lobotomies for being gay, rounding up all the japanese and putting them in camps, the Tuskegee horror, and I could go on. We've improved from those problems. This isn't the worst thing, and it too will be defeated if you organize. What you need to do is community organize about these problems (as has been happening) and meet people where they are.

Also gun control isn't "dying" basically every blue state has completely ignored the recent supreme court rulings, and in some areas are actually tightening gun control.

It's dead. The control part is dead as of 3d printing, even ignoring 80%s, and the gun stuff is actively being litigated and the laws being struck down as they come up.

 

[Bacle]

You act like it.


Your 'lukewarm GOP candidate' is no different than a Dem to us libertarians, because, shocker, we aren't Republicans (notice that we went and made a whole different party to get this point across?). We are anti war. We are against the government. You aren't. That's fine, but we are also fine not being seen as a vehicle for your set of beliefs.

The few 'Pubs that actually are different, we do support. We aren't about to run a candidate against Massie, for example. The libertarian candidate for the Arizona Senate seat dropped out lest he spoil it.


Those ideas are in conflict to each other. National politics will always be far outside your control. Things that are in your power are local organizing.

You want people to trust the voting system, but not the rest of the gov; do you see the contradiction here?

Face it, you just want what ever will give local Libertarians the illusion of have power themselves, rather than being pattsies for the Dems, and do not care how much the country is fucked by Libtards doing the DNCs work for them.

Then again, this is also why I am saying that supporting the Dems is more useful in the long run, because the Libtards tend to spoil races only one direction, and if they cannot get a candidate who does 95% of what they want from teh GOP, they would prefer a Dem take power.

So congrats @Abhorsen, you and the Libtards have pretty much shown that the Dems, and trying to change them from inside, is more viable and a better return on investment than helping the GOP.

 

[Abhorsen]

You want people to trust the voting system, but not the rest of the gov; do you see the contradiction here?

I never mentioned voting. Seriously, I said give up on that, give up on politics, focus on organizing and protests if you want to see change.

Face it, you just want what ever will give local Libertarians the illusion of have power themselves, rather than being pattsies for the Dems, and do not care how much the country is fucked by Libtards doing the DNCs work for them.

Then again, this is also why I am saying that supporting the Dems is more useful in the long run, because the Libtards tend to spoil races only one direction, and if they cannot get a candidate who does 95% of what they want from teh GOP, they would prefer a Dem take power.

WAH WAH Mommy, the libertarians are being mean to me cause I'm just the same as the democrat! WAH. Get over yourself. You fit right into the uniparty. You are pro the current thing, the comfortable statist middle, just sad about losing.

So congrats @Abhorsen, you and the Libtards have pretty much shown that the Dems, and trying to change them from inside, is more viable and a better return on investment than helping the GOP.

... I don't care what you think. You are a pro war person that shouts doomerism and defeatism. I don't want you on my side, and glad you agree.


For everyone else who hasn't swallowed the black pill:

The gun control movement is a great analogy for what has to happen:

Gun ownership won in public. From the 90s to now, there's been a steady movement towards gun rights that people have embraced and now hold near and dear. This is now spreading to non-usual suspects, which is another win.

Look at the pattern: first, gun control was normal and easy. Then a strong focused minority was for gun rights. They slowly won legal battles, and now more and more people are down with owning guns, even outside of the typical group. We just won our Brown v Board, equivalently. We are on a path to win this, as long as we keep pressing as we have: nonviolently, insisting that politicians support us on this, community organizing (in this case, it's called gun safety courses and gun groups and taking your friend to the range).

Gun control won the culture, and is now winning the courts.

The same thing will have to happen with covid and other government meddling. It's hard, but we will do it. The libertarians have a plan, a long term plan, to win. You can join or not, but I'd say join if you believe in freedom first.

As for the twitter stuff, this literally hasn't even gone through the courts yet. You know what did reveal some of this? The courts. So maybe give them a chance? They are slow, but they work.

 

[Cherico]

Honestly for all of the disapointments that happened this year.

There have been some major fucking blows to the left, that happened internationally. The twitter files was a serious gut punch, they lost the house which means we have a do nothing congress for two years, and Liz cheny was humilated and kicked out of office along with some other major establishment types.

I honestly thought it would take a few cycles to get rid of her. Over all things haven't been nearly as bad as I thought they would be.

 

[Ixian]

A) we literally just got incontrovertable proof about it. Maybe give it time?

B) Again, we've been in much worse situations. We had slavery enforced by laws, mass lynchings ignored by police, forcible lobotomies for being gay, rounding up all the japanese and putting them in camps, the Tuskegee horror, and I could go on. We've improved from those problems. This isn't the worst thing, and it too will be defeated if you organize. What you need to do is community organize about these problems (as has been happening) and meet people where they are.


It's dead. The control part is dead as of 3d printing, even ignoring 80%s, and the gun stuff is actively being litigated and the laws being struck down as they come up.

Slavery was ended with bloody civil war.
Mass Lynchings haven't occurred since 1935.
Forced Lobotomies were never a widespread approved medical option, unlike the genital mutilation of today.

Japanese internment camps and the Tuskegee medical experiments were both horrific, and good examples of why we shouldn't just wait for the current problems to "sort themselves out".

Literally nothing you've said in anyway disproves my point.

Whats worse is that for the above actions and events (with the exception of slavery and possibly the Japanese internment camps) never had over half the nation in support of them.

Cool, you think gun control is dead, you're wrong of course, but I'm not going to waste my time pulling up the endless amount of state laws proving it, you can use Google as easily as anyone.

So again, we have reached a point of political tension that seems fairly irreconcilable. The political factions of the US have very different and divergent ideas for society moving into the future, these factions are almost a 50/50 split.

We aren't solving the current issues with compromise, because there is nothing to compromise on, the leftwing and rightwing both fundamentally are incompatible with each other, and their ideas are repulsive and repugnant to the opposite side.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

I'm being realistic, based on what I've seen and experienced.

Outside of deep red areas, the GOP isn't a savior, it's at best the slightly less evil, and the Dems may as well control it's leadership.

And if the Dems already effectively control the leadership of both parties, why not cut out the middle man and just aim for, or at least more control, of the madness inside the Dems.

Between Bush Jr. and now Trump, I doubt the GOP will be able to get real power unless DeSantis can make it to the Oval. If Desantis cannot get elected in 2024 or 2028, the GOP has no one else in the cards who is better suited and younger.

The GOP has clung to the Boomer-cons ideology too tightly in many ways (trickle down economics and ignoring automation's role in infaltion and job losses, plus off-shoring), and not tightly enough in others ironically (the Cold War never ended, it just went into half-time), at the cost of their potential future prospects, for too long, and if DeSantis cannot do it, I don't think any in the current youngest GOP generation has a better shot.

Because remember, I know what other groups suffered through, and how they succeeded. There is a reason I keep saying the GOP needs to lean more on MLK and Fredrick Douglas than George Washington or Reagan when it comes to ideology and tactics for the modern day.

The GOP was founded by free blacks and former slaves allied with abolitionists and common folk who did not like slavery. The party needs to go back to it's roots, or die off and let something new emerge like a phoenix from the ashes.

Yeah, bout 90 percent agree. I do disagree with the MLK and Freddy D statement though, it should be conservative, but not leaning racially or even being about racial issues. When Politics get on Racial Issues it causes strife, aka what we don't need. Instead we need a restart, I love Trump but NEO-Cons hold too much power, and while Paleo-Cons try to make things better, they themselves also cause issues. What we need is fresh blood, new faces. The Democrats act hip and cool but are old af.

 

[Abhorsen]

Forced Lobotomies were never a widespread approved medical option, unlike the genital mutilation of today.

They were. People just forget this. The government of New York, for example, mandated your choice of a lobotomy or castration for someone caught a second time for homosexuality.

Japanese internment camps and the Tuskegee medical experiments were both horrific, and good examples of why we shouldn't just wait for the current problems to "sort themselves out".

I'm not advocating for waiting when I cite these. In fact, these required effort to fix. I'm pointing out that things have been worse, and we've fixed stuff, only once needing an actual civil war. Being a surrender monkey or doomer like @Bacle suggests because this is the 'worst evah' is just dumb.

The American system consistently gives good but slow results. No other system does better. Yes, justice delayed is justice denied. No, the system is not perfect. But at least it works.

Cool, you think gun control is dead, you're wrong of course, but I'm not going to waste my time pulling up the endless amount of state laws proving it, you can use Google as easily as anyone.

That you address laws shows how little you paid attention to what I said. I said that the government lost control. You can build a gun in your house undetectably in any city in the US (and Europe for that matter, as long as you don't star in a documentary about 3d guns). Not necessarily legally, but easily, and not for an exorbitant amount of money. This is better than legality, in fact, because the even if they get rid of the 2nd entirely, the government is not going to be able to stop this.

Legally speaking, we are still at the just after Brown v Board stage, where there's a lot of individual laws left to litigate at the local level, but the big key pieces of precedent are there.

So again, we have reached a point of political tension that seems fairly irreconcilable. The political factions of the US have very different and divergent ideas for society moving into the future, these factions are almost a 50/50 split.

We aren't solving the current issues with compromise, because there is nothing to compromise on, the leftwing and rightwing both fundamentally are incompatible with each other, and their ideas are repulsive and repugnant to the opposite side.

... We've also been here before. In Civil rights, one side was arguing for repungent things. Guess what? People in favor of colored bathrooms ended up losing, and then they basically changed their minds over time, or just shut up.

And know what the strategy was there? Community organizing, protests, local work on local problems, along with a lot of foot voting (i.e. moving to states with better laws). Eventually that became a national movement, but that ignores a ton of the groundwork that needed to be laid down first. Every movement has gone through these steps (yes, even the anti slavery one, but the confederacy saw their defeat and went for the proverb nuclear option, but failed. Had they not, republicans would have voted out slavery slowly but successfully.).

I'm not advocating for compromise. I'm advocating for community organizing, cause it works.

 

[Cherico]

They were. People just forget this. The government of New York, for example, mandated your choice of a lobotomy or castration for someone caught a second time for homosexuality.


I'm not advocating for waiting when I cite these. In fact, these required effort to fix. I'm pointing out that things have been worse, and we've fixed stuff, only once needing an actual civil war. Being a surrender monkey or doomer like @Bacle suggests because this is the 'worst evah' is just dumb.

The American system consistently gives good but slow results. No other system does better. Yes, justice delayed is justice denied. No, the system is not perfect. But at least it works.


That you address laws shows how little you paid attention to what I said. I said that the government lost control. You can build a gun in your house undetectably in any city in the US (and Europe for that matter, as long as you don't star in a documentary about 3d guns). Not necessarily legally, but easily, and not for an exorbitant amount of money. This is better than legality, in fact, because the even if they get rid of the 2nd entirely, the government is not going to be able to stop this.

Legally speaking, we are still at the just after Brown v Board stage, where there's a lot of individual laws left to litigate at the local level, but the big key pieces of precedent are there.


... We've also been here before. In Civil rights, one side was arguing for repungent things. Guess what? People in favor of colored bathrooms ended up losing, and then they basically changed their minds over time, or just shut up.

And know what the strategy was there? Community organizing, protests, local work on local problems, along with a lot of foot voting (i.e. moving to states with better laws). Eventually that became a national movement, but that ignores a ton of the groundwork that needed to be laid down first. Every movement has gone through these steps (yes, even the anti slavery one, but the confederacy saw their defeat and went for the proverb nuclear option, but failed. Had they not, republicans would have voted out slavery slowly but successfully.).

I'm not advocating for compromise. I'm advocating for community organizing, cause it works.

I think were most likely heading into civil war but I really hope Ab is right and this current insanity can be solved peacefully and with out bloodshed. That would more or less be the ideal outcome.

 

[Abhorsen]

A summary of all the twitter files in one convenient place:

Capsule Summaries of all Twitter Files Threads to Date, With Links and a Glossary

For those who haven't been following, a compilation of one-paragraph summaries of all the Twitter Files threads by every reporter. With links and notes on key revelations

taibbi.substack.com

 

[Cherico]

looks like congress has dragged the former Twitter exects across the coals.

And they have been threatened with prosecution, personally I want less talk more action but its a start.

 

[Captain X]

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[shangrila]

Prosecution is impossible under the current administration. Congressional Committees have the powers to investigate and recommend, only the DOJ can prosecute. It'll be pretty hilarious when Jordan's committee recommends to the DOJ that Garland be prosecuted, but that obviously isn't going further.

 

[Bacle]

https://twitter.com/planefag

Planefag has finally been unbanned from Twitter.

 

[Cherico]

https://twitter.com/planefag

Planefag has finally been unbanned from Twitter.

fucking beautiful.