United States Turning Point Fires Ashley St. Claire for Talking to Nick Fuentes

[ShadowsOfParadox]

Controlled immigration works fine.

you know the funniest thing about this? "America is a nation of immigrants" who immigrated within quotas in waves.

 

[The Name of Love]

People's politics are not fundamentally rooted in their ethnicity.

It's not demographic replacement that's causing the problem, it's the cultural replacement that's coming with it. Limited immigration over long periods allows immigrants to meld into the larger culture, and their descendants 3-4 generations down the way being indistinguishable from 8th or 10th generation Americans.

Controlled immigration works fine. Partly because it tends to let in those most interested in becoming Americans.

You can’t magically change a person’s culture, my dude. Government integration policies do not work.

 

[FriedCFour]

You can’t magically change a person’s culture, my dude. Government integration policies do not work.

No but people overtime do tend to integrate, some do it very quickly and others over time. Culture clearly can change, given it has radically changed in African Americans and Whites away from their African and European ancestral homelands. There doesn't need to be a government integration policy. People just tend to do it over time.

 

[Marduk]

People just tend to do it over time.

Or not. It's a very complicated subject, and depending on various factors involved, it may happen over several generations, or not happen over millenia. Plenty of relatively small groups in Europe have not assimilated to the local majorities over many centuries. USA technically consists of several subcultures that share some parts but are in vehement disagreement over others, and those subcultures have some significant degree of positioning on ethnic lines.
As such, taking assimilation for granted, government policy or natural cultural osmosis, is a foolish thing to do. It may happen, or not, and factors like population numbers, what are the cultures in question, geographic distributions, relations between these cultures and also government policy all will influence the end result.

Also, the whites in question? They Pilgrims, were, effectively, a dissident subculture of a certain European power, and with that in mind, they didn't exactly radically change, they were self-selected to be different to begin with.

 

[FriedCFour]

Or not. It's a very complicated subject, and depending on various factors involved, it may happen over several generations, or not happen over millenia.

Or within one person's own lifetime, they can in fact adapt and change to the culture around them. So far in the US we've been fairly good at it.

 

[LordsFire]

You can’t magically change a person’s culture, my dude. Government integration policies do not work.

...When did I ever say I wanted it to be a government policy that made people integrate? Selecting out people who don't want to, as best as you reasonably can, would be government business, past that it's up to the citizenry.

 

[Marduk]

Or within one person's own lifetime, they can in fact adapt and change to the culture around them. So far in the US we've been fairly good at it.

That only happens if they actively want to adapt to it, which in turn implies that they have immigrated there precisely because they like said culture. The problem is that the current mass migration waves tend to be driven and guided by economic motivations, which are mostly independent of any cultural preferences - everyone likes wealth, religious or not, capitalist or socialist (those like other people's wealth too, what else are they supposed to redistribute?), well educated or primitive...
And if they have to tell some bullshit stories to get a piece of said wealth, not hard to convince people to lie for money...

 

[The Name of Love]

No but people overtime do tend to integrate, some do it very quickly and others over time. Culture clearly can change, given it has radically changed in African Americans and Whites away from their African and European ancestral homelands. There doesn't need to be a government integration policy. People just tend to do it over time.

I don’t really believe that is true anymore. I mean, what are they integrating into? Nationalist-Socialist Third Worldism? Wokeism? Nihilism and crime? Fact is, our current elites are using immigration policy as a way to farm votes, enrich themselves, and continue the anarchy-tyranny social engineering.

...When did I ever say I wanted it to be a government policy that made people integrate? Selecting out people who don't want to, as best as you reasonably can, would be government business, past that it's up to the citizenry.

I’d prefer a very strict immigration system. I’m exact terms:

• Build the Wall.
• Track those who enter the United States on visas and immediately remove those who overstay them.
• Strip sanctuary cities of discretionary federal funding and use other means to exert pressure on them.
• Remove criminal aliens first, including those who commit ID theft.
• Check the right of new applicants to work legally in America via E-Verify, which must be mandatory for every business with five or more employees.
• Create a federal hotline, like the IRS hotline, allowing citizens to report illegal immigrants to ICE for removal.
• Pass a federal law that ends birthright citizenship to children of illegal immigrants, then fight for it in the courts.
• Stop chain migration.
• End the “Diversity Visa” lottery.
• Fix legal immigration. We should favor highly skilled workers, with lower overall totals.
• Shrink immigration admissions from high-risk countries to as close to zero as possible.
• Update our citizenship oath to require renouncing “religious laws or systems of laws” that are contrary to the U.S. Constitution. Then pass laws revoking citizenship for any naturalized person who took this oath and goes on to break it.
• Honor the “first safe country” rule for refugees. Help resettle genuine refugees in compatible nearby countries. Require refugees to return to their home countries when it’s safe.
• Enforce the financial promises made by sponsors to prevent immigrants from becoming a public charge.
• Boost broad-based public and private efforts to assimilate and Americanize immigrants already here.

 

[LordsFire]

I don’t really believe that is true anymore. I mean, what are they integrating into? Nationalist-Socialist Third Worldism? Wokeism? Nihilism and crime? Fact is, our current elites are using immigration policy as a way to farm votes, enrich themselves, and continue the anarchy-tyranny social engineering.


I’d prefer a very strict immigration system. I’m exact terms:

• Build the Wall.
• Track those who enter the United States on visas and immediately remove those who overstay them.
• Strip sanctuary cities of discretionary federal funding and use other means to exert pressure on them.
• Remove criminal aliens first, including those who commit ID theft.
• Check the right of new applicants to work legally in America via E-Verify, which must be mandatory for every business with five or more employees.
• Create a federal hotline, like the IRS hotline, allowing citizens to report illegal immigrants to ICE for removal.
• Pass a federal law that ends birthright citizenship to children of illegal immigrants, then fight for it in the courts.
• Stop chain migration.
• End the “Diversity Visa” lottery.
• Fix legal immigration. We should favor highly skilled workers, with lower overall totals.
• Shrink immigration admissions from high-risk countries to as close to zero as possible.
• Update our citizenship oath to require renouncing “religious laws or systems of laws” that are contrary to the U.S. Constitution. Then pass laws revoking citizenship for any naturalized person who took this oath and goes on to break it.
• Honor the “first safe country” rule for refugees. Help resettle genuine refugees in compatible nearby countries. Require refugees to return to their home countries when it’s safe.
• Enforce the financial promises made by sponsors to prevent immigrants from becoming a public charge.
• Boost broad-based public and private efforts to assimilate and Americanize immigrants already here.

Everything there except the religious law element, and possibly 'public' efforts to assimilate and americanize, looks pretty solid to me. Even then, I think I like the idea behind it, I just don't think that's necessarily the best way to go about it.

Our nation is under no obligation to accept one permanent migrant per year, much less one million.

I do believe it is worthwhile to do so, but at this point so much correction of the system is necessary, temporary hard stop might help get shit in order.

 

[The Name of Love]

Everything there except the religious law element, and possibly 'public' efforts to assimilate and americanize, looks pretty solid to me. Even then, I think I like the idea behind it, I just don't think that's necessarily the best way to go about it.

Our nation is under no obligation to accept one permanent migrant per year, much less one million.

I do believe it is worthwhile to do so, but at this point so much correction of the system is necessary, temporary hard stop might help get shit in order.

There are religious laws that I don't think are in line with what I would accept (such as wanting to enforce Islam as the state religion).

 

[Deleted member]

You can’t magically change a person’s culture, my dude. Government integration policies do not work.

Well, it depends on the quantity and level of dispersion, in ratio to the similarity in culture. The further apart the cultures are, the fewer people you can integrate, and the more widely dispersed they must be. This is fairly apparent from history. Compact masses of extremely different people are very, very dangerous to state stability. Catholic Montagnards who share a commitment to capitalism as well as the Christian religion with most Americans, and are motivated to make the best of their chance having tasted oppression, and who have a history of counting the United States as a friend, would integrate much better than, say, Syrian Muslims.