I can see where you're coming from, but I had read Woke Inc before he was ever running for president, and I'm not worried about him wokifying things, that's for sure.
I definitely like him more than DeSantis or Haley.
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United States US presidential election 2024
- Thread starter Carrot of Truth
- Start date
I definitely like him more than DeSantis or Haley.
I think if Vivek is actually being sincere, and isn't the near-Manchurian candidate he seems, he needs to check his own ego before he alienates Trump's old base with his 'Only I can Save Trump' shit.
I thought he was ok when he first came out, but his whole thing against birthright citizenship and his 'thought experiment' around a 59% death/estate tax set off alarm bells in my head.
I get why many on the GOP side like him, I really do, but I've seen this shit with Obama, and look how that turned out. I think the Dems actually want the R's to win under someone like him or Haley, so the shit Biden did to fuck us over will fall on the GOP, and in 2028 the Dems can ride in to 'save America from MAGA fuck ups (that are actually the Dems fault)' again.
Copy a snake who scammed the US into horrible deals behind a nice smile and charisma, and then helped enabled the current horrors we've seen come out of DC.
Well, at least you admit you want the GOP to shoot itself in the proverbial foot, yet again.
Though given you pretty much want to sabotage both parties to help the Libertarians get ahead, giving bad advice to both sides makes since for you, I guess.
Edit: It's like the GOP is the New Republic, the Dems are the Imperial Remnant, and you're Nom Anor trying to sabotage both.
No, because I understand military supply chains, explosive expiration dates, the need to keep munitions and parts flowing even in peace time even if it's 'unprofitable', and the difficulty in finding/retaining techs/engineers/welders that are qualified and cleared to work on sensitive/classified military equipment production lines.
That you wish to ignore the real context around why cost-plus contracts exist in the modern military supply chain, and the realities of military supply chains in general, is on you, not me.
You clearly don't. You are advocating socialism. You keep advocating for socialism, and you don't even know what you are railing for. You are the definition of a useful idiot.
Just because you refuse to understand how military supply chains work doesn't make them socialism.
Government paying for the entire cost of a project that's under total government control, causing the contractor to have no downside is socialism.
mrttao
Well-known member
Great. I now have to revise my claim to "literally all but 1 person I talked to who voted for obama told me it was because his skin color". Which is quite a mouthful
'Under the government's total control'...you really don't understand how military procurement and supply actually plays out, do you?
You do also realize that the money the govs pays out goes back into the economy, or do you think that defense contractors aren't people who should be paid for their work, time, and expertise, even when not doing full war-time production.
You cannot just grab a nuclear tech or armor-certified welder off the street, and you cannot spin-up production very quickly in an emergency (like say Ukraine getting invaded or Hamas going full retard) if you've let the entire supply chain for the needed equipment/munition shrink to the point of a massive bottle neck, or be dismantled completely.
I think you just want to not admit that the particular complexities of military supply chains aren't socialism, you just hate military spending and look for any excuse to bad mouth it.
I mean, my point was that your claim isn't true, because I know tons of people who fell for his hope and change shit, and have very rarely seen people IRL say they voted for him because he's black. I'm sure a lot did, but my generation was sick to death of Bush era neocon bullshit, and Obama's hope and change message and his charisma took us in.
The woke mind virus hadn't completely taken over yet, and didn't start full swing till 2011/12ish. We didn't give a fuck about race.
We loved a fresh, new face who was a bit younger than a lot of the opposition, promising to change things up in a system that was clearly not working very well.
And what we got was continuation of neocon policies, race baiting, the woke movement and obamacare.
But my generation for the most part was going the for hope and change, not skin color.
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I've literally worked for them and seen it first hand. I know it intimately. There was absolutely ZERO pressure to ever get work done during a contract, because that would mean the contract wouldn't get renewed. It was absolutely a disgusting waste of money.
So maybe stop talking out your ass to someone who actually knows what they are talking about?
So does bribe money, money spent on woke schooling, etc. But the issue is that it isn't spent well, and you are ignoring the other things it could have been spent on. This is again, socialist reasoning.
You then try to move the conversation off cost plus contracts, which is a failure. Spoiler alert, welders don't get the cost plus contracts. The people who do are engineers and designers and scientists. It's for R and D. The only time a welder get's paid in terms of a cost plus contract is maybe the few hours they spend on the prototype, but not for the production of the general use.
See, you are actively demonstrate your ignorance right here.
No, you are actively demonstrating your own bias from a bad work experience.
You hate government spending, you hate military spending, you think taxes are theft, and you insist every cost plus contract is bad because of a bad work experience you've had.
You're like traumatized Ferengi, angry that profit isn't the bottom line in some arms production sectors.
You've cited examples of non cost plus contracts to argue against cost plus contracts. You constantly talk out of your ass.
Also, lol at my bad work experience being unusual. You think I only worked at one place? I subbed for Boeing and others, I know how the stuff works much better than you, who operates on no evidence and no experience.
No, that's the thing. I'm annoyed that profit is the bottom line. See, with a cost plus contract, the company profits massively despite not needing to accomplish anything.
Second, again you show your sheer incompetence, talking about arms production. Cost plus contracts aren't used for arms production, you invertebrate. They are used for arms development. You would have known that had you paid attention the last time I showed you for the brain dead ignoramus you are on this topic. You don't know why socialism doesn't work, so you don't recognize it at all when it's clearly demonstrated.
Now why is basic econ 101 on topic? Because Bacles ignorance of it shows every time he tries to call some politician a socialist. In his opinion, if he simply doesn't like someone's policies, that makes them a socialist. Bacle never actually left his leftist mindset of shouting "NAZI REEEEEE" at people he doesn't like, he just swapped out the words and who he's made at. He's still an NPC, just with a different alignment.
mrttao
Well-known member
You must know a different set of liberals then me.
Remember this.
@Bacle this thread isn't about @Abhorsen and vice versa...
...Please keep that in mind...
We have plenty of things to discuss incoming from Iowa at the moment try not to get bogged down into too much bickering.
That isn't the say anyone is breaking the rules just a preemptive warning to avoid trashing the thread so nobody will have to clean it later.
...Please keep that in mind...
We have plenty of things to discuss incoming from Iowa at the moment try not to get bogged down into too much bickering.
That isn't the say anyone is breaking the rules just a preemptive warning to avoid trashing the thread so nobody will have to clean it later.
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Back then the vast majority of my friends were college liberals.
People were definitely excited about "first black president," no doubt. That's not why they voted for him though.
They voted for him, surprisingly, for the same reasons so many voted for Trump. There's actually a sizable chunk of Obama voters who voted Trump. I'm one of them.
It was a middle finger to the establishment. We wanted that hope and change. Obama was promising it. We thought he was going to get in and shake things up.
We were wrong, of course. But we were sick of this system that isn't working and we thought Obama was gonna shake things up and fix it. Same reason people voted Trump. Except Trump actually got some good things done.
mrttao
Well-known member
That does not make any bloody sense.
Trump was an outsider.
Obama was an establishment politician with a history.
7 years in the illinois senate
4 years in USA federal senate
that is 11 years of office that showed he was NOT an anti establishment outsider.
He said "hope and change" but it only took the most cursory look at his policies in his 11 years in office to see what those terms mean.
Meanwhile trump was an actual outsider who never held political office before.
The college liberals were very open that "first black president" is their main thrust. Especially the ones suffering from terminal white guilt.
I think you are misremembering. It is natural for humans to frequently and constantly massage their own memories of events. Especially if it is something that makes them feel bad (like, say, having voted for the worst president in american history. who delivered the death blow to america)
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Back on the topic of Vivek, he’s been doing some really good work taking the press to task for consistent deceit:
This is the sort of thing everybody needs to see. We’re doomed if people don’t accept that the mainstream media are complete liars. Even without getting into office, Vivek’s campaign is making a positive difference.
This is the sort of thing everybody needs to see. We’re doomed if people don’t accept that the mainstream media are complete liars. Even without getting into office, Vivek’s campaign is making a positive difference.
Obama was very much pitched as an outsider though. He was a less than one term senator that wasn't known to the public at large prior to his run. He then upset the main candidate that most money was pushing for (Hillary). Now he didn't end up having that many different points than Hillary, but that's not how he was sold.
mrttao
Well-known member
The internet was a thing by then.
Literally anyone could look up his voting history.
I did. Many others did.
Every conservative was pointing at it.
The thing is, outsider is a relative term. Hence the 'er' at the end. Him being outside of Clinton made him the outsider. The Dems not being in power and the Rs being in power also made him the outsider.
Make no mistake, at the time, progressivism was more outside the norm, and his progressivism was outside the norm. Outsider doesn't mean good. Bernie's an outsider, but he sucks worse than the insiders.