United States US presidential election 2024

ShieldWife

Marchioness
Ukraine shouldn’t blow up Russian oil infrastructure.

The Biden administration doesn’t have much room to talk since they blew up the Nordstream pipeline, but two wrongs don’t make a right.

I just hope this fiasco doesn’t escalate any more before Trump gets a chance to put this to an end. Assuming he’s elected that is.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Ukraine shouldn’t blow up Russian oil infrastructure.

The Biden administration doesn’t have much room to talk since they blew up the Nordstream pipeline, but two wrongs don’t make a right.

I just hope this fiasco doesn’t escalate any more before Trump gets a chance to put this to an end. Assuming he’s elected that is.
Why shouldn't Ukraine blow it up?
 

mrttao

Well-known member
Oil refineries are military targets. They are part of the war machine.
Oil refineries produce fuel that is a cornerstone of civilian infrastructure.
The distribution of all goods, particularly food, relies on oil refineries.
Also helps for electricity production to provide heat in the winter.

Yes it is also used by the military.
The military also consumes food, water, clothing, and electricity for heating in the winter so you do not freeze to death. None of those things are military products just because the military consumes them.

Fuel is not a military target, it is a civilian target that the military needs.
By claiming it is a military target you are being dishonest.

This is a major escalation towards Total War.
Don't be dishonest and admit what is going on.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Oil refineries produce fuel that is a cornerstone of civilian infrastructure.
The distribution of all goods, particularly food, relies on oil refineries.
Also helps for electricity production to provide heat in the winter.

Yes it is also used by the military.
The military also consumes food, water, clothing, and electricity for heating in the winter so you do not freeze to death. None of those things are military products just because the military consumes them.

Fuel is not a military target, it is a civilian target that the military needs.
By claiming it is a military target you are being dishonest.

This is a major escalation towards Total War.
Don't be dishonest and admit what is going on.
This just means people need to reopen and refurbish some old, shuttered but not demolished refineries in the West and and outside Russia.

Instead of telling Ukraine to stop hitting enemy refineries, in what for them is an existential war, what we should be doing is telling the stupid greenies who keep new, cleaner refineries from being built in the West, to stop destroying our strategic infrastructure in the womb, like another of their aborted children.



And how about Russia stop hitting Ukrainian energy and oil and food and such.

WHY DO YOU NEVER TELL RUSSIA TO STOP.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
This just means people need to reopen and refurbish some old, shuttered but not demolished refineries in the West and and outside Russia.

Instead of telling Ukraine to stop hitting enemy refineries, in what for them is an existential war, what we should be doing is telling the stupid greenies who keep new, cleaner refineries from being built in the West, to stop destroying our strategic infrastructure in the womb, like another of their aborted children.



And how about Russia stop hitting Ukrainian energy and oil and food and such.

WHY DO YOU NEVER TELL RUSSIA TO STOP.

Reading fail.
I didn't tell ukraine to stop bombing oil refineries.
I called you guys liars for saying that oil refineries are a military target. They are not, they are a civilian target.

Militaries cannot function without civilians. So if you bomb water, food, and fuel civilian infrastructure it will cripple the opponent's military. This is called Total War, a genocidal war where you target the opponent civilians.

You are a frothing at the mouth fanatic screaming that any american who does not buy your PR lies should be executed for being a russian 5th column.
You don't believe anyone in the world could be neutral in this war between putin and globohomo.

So in your view if someone points out your lies, then they must be an ally of russia. So you start attributing whatever your imagination brings up to them
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Reading fail.
I didn't tell ukraine to stop bombing oil refineries.
I called you guys liars for saying that oil refineries are a military target. They are not, they are a civilian target.

Militaries cannot function without civilians. So if you bomb water, food, and fuel civilian infrastructure it will cripple the opponent's military. This is called Total War, a genocidal war where you target the opponent civilians.

You are a frothing at the mouth fanatic screaming that any american who does not buy your PR lies should be executed for being a russian 5th column.
You don't believe anyone in the world could be neutral in this war between putin and globohomo.

So in your view if someone points out your lies, then they must be an ally of russia. So you start attributing whatever your imagination brings up to them
No, they are military targets too, particularly when they are fueling an active war effort.

The amount of handwringging over calling Russian refineries military targets, or trying to act like they mostly civie installations even in the context of this war, by certain groups is really odd, and kinda oddly timed.

As is your white knighting for the person who initially complained about how the refineries shouldn't be hit, @ShieldWife, when her point was that the refineries shouldn't be hit at all.

And she has still not said why they are not a valid target, only once again asserted that the West/Biden/Ukraine blew up Nordstream.

There is no neutral side in this conflict, and those who think there is are fucking fools who are full of themselves and are too proud to admit when they've been misled by grifters, or those who think 'stick your head in the sand' is useful foreign policy advice.
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
Much as the industrial heartlands of the Reich were valid targets for Bomber Command in the Second World War, these Oil Refineries are Russian strategic assets worth hitting. Knocking these out is devastating to the Russian war effort and economy, whilst Ukraine, having won effective command of the Black Sea and bordering friendly EU/NATO countries, can ship in whatever it needs.

It is the irony of ironies, that a war of attrition actually favours Ukraine to an extent.
 

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