Warship Appreciation Thread

bintananth

behind a desk
Well at least a few WW2 Battleships have been saved. We still have them at least.
Just a few?

The US currently has eight: the four Iowa's, two South Dakota's, North Carolina, and Texas.

Only three of the ten fast battleships the US built weren't preserved.

NOTE: The Japanese also have a the pre-dreadnaught Mikasa, but she's not afloat anymore.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
NAe São Paulo, the former French Navy Foch, also started its journey to Turkey, where she will be scrapped, this Thursday(August 4th).

Oh wow. I didn't realize that. Just skimming over the Wikipedia entry, it looked like it had a lot of problems while in service and they just eventually decided to stop throwing money into it.

Looking into it, I guess they already have a replacement. A British Helicopter Land Ship HMS Ocean which they'll rename the Atlantico. Only twenty years old. Hopefully it doesn't have as many serviceability issues as their previous Carrier. Though this one only operates helicopters apparently.

I wonder if Brazil will actually want an aircraft carrier in the future they can operate jets off of. Preferably one they can buy new perhaps? Though $100 million for a helicopter landing ship ain't that bad of a deal I suppose, especially after seeing the money put into the Sao Paulo. And I guess Brazil doesn't exactly have many maritime threats unless it wants to conquer French Guyana. 😛
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
Looking into it, I guess they already have a replacement. A British Helicopter Land Ship HMS Ocean which they'll rename the Atlantico. Only twenty years old. Hopefully it doesn't have as many serviceability issues as their previous Carrier. Though this one only operates helicopters apparently.

I wonder if Brazil will actually want an aircraft carrier in the future they can operate jets off of. Preferably one they can buy new perhaps? Though $100 million for a helicopter landing ship ain't that bad of a deal I suppose, especially after seeing the money put into the Sao Paulo. And I guess Brazil doesn't exactly have many maritime threats unless it wants to conquer French Guyana. 😛

Get hold of some F-35's and you should have a semi-operable carrier in the form of HMS Ocean. Personally though, I think Brazil does have the cash for something like an Invincible class Light Aircraft Carrier (probably about a billion and a bit per ship).

R05-HMS-Invincible-036.jpg


It would be a dramatic boost to the strength of their navy, if not make them truly preeminent (in naval terms) in their part of the world. I think only Argentina would be able to challenge them by that point.

That aside, on the subject of vandalism against warships, the greatest crime of them all was what was done to HMS Warspite. As much as I am fond of HMS Belfast, Warspite should be sitting proudly in the Thames right now.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Why bother when they're going to retire her and turn her into soda cans?

To be fair, the Independence class has had massively less issues than the Freedom class. It's the Freedoms that the Navy wants to scrap all of because of the defective transmission, but Congress has thus far been blocking that for political pork reasons, whereas with the Independence, the Navy only wants to scrap the first few ships which are basically prototypes.

Edit: Having now toured one and had opportunity to chat with the crew. . . it's definitely an interesting warship, quite a bit more capable than critics give it credit for. It's definitely a specialist, but it has utility *as* a specialist and people are too critical of it not being a main-line warship when it was never meant to actually be one.
 
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gral

Well-known member
Oh wow. I didn't realize that. Just skimming over the Wikipedia entry, it looked like it had a lot of problems while in service and they just eventually decided to stop throwing money into it.

Looking into it, I guess they already have a replacement. A British Helicopter Land Ship HMS Ocean which they'll rename the Atlantico. Only twenty years old. Hopefully it doesn't have as many serviceability issues as their previous Carrier. Though this one only operates helicopters apparently.

I wonder if Brazil will actually want an aircraft carrier in the future they can operate jets off of. Preferably one they can buy new perhaps? Though $100 million for a helicopter landing ship ain't that bad of a deal I suppose, especially after seeing the money put into the Sao Paulo. And I guess Brazil doesn't exactly have many maritime threats unless it wants to conquer French Guyana. 😛
The big problem with the ex-Foch was that she was in real bad condition when she was sold in 1997-8, with highlights being a propeller shaft that needed replacement, and heavily used steam systems(both catapult and propulsion) - France knew exactly what she was selling, and sold her cheap, hoping to make bank on maintaining her(the same thing they would do with the stop-gap Mirage 2000s the Air Force bought - I recall people cursing the French for having unloaded on Brazil the 'tiredest Mirage 2000s they could find in their boneyards' and charging for every single bolt as if they were made of platinum).

The Brazilian Navy knew what was going on and went for 'we'll do this by ourselves'... only to find out the Brazilian industries overpromised on their competence to provide the components to do maintenance on her(biggest example being the aforementioned propeller shaft). By 2014, the Navy was considering putting diesel engines on her and keeping 4 boilers for the steam catapults - when I heard that, I knew she was finished, and that was just a desperate proposal for keeping her. By 2016, the Navy gave up on her.

As for Atlântico(EDIT: BTW, she's been operational in the Brazilian Navy since late 2018), she was supposed to be disposed of by the RN around 2020-22; the RN gave up on spending money for modernizations, so they build ships for 20-25 years of operational life. This time, however, Brazil is signing contracts with British companies to supply components for and maintain the ship, so there(hopefully) won't be as many problems with her as there were with São Paulo.

BTW, someone mentioned the acquisition of F-35s for a possible future carrier. On this matter, I have this to say: Hell will freeze over before the US sells F-35 to a South American country. The US only cleared the sale of supersonic aircraft (F-5s, in this case) to South America after Argentina and Brazil had bought Mirage IIIs - before that, the best offer they gave was selling used F-100s to Brazil in 1968-9. They only sold F-16s to Venezuela in the 1980s, because they were their main oil supplier. There is a reason why Brazilian plans for naval fighters look at a navalised Gripen - Brazil knows F-35 is off the table, and will never be on it.
 
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ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
I would point out that the U.S. rightly doesn't want South American nations running around with overly advanced military equipment and getting ideas; nonetheless, we did sell Argentina an incredibly sweet upgrade package for the A-4 in the late-90s, incorporating avionics off the F-16 Fighting Falcon to make one *hell* of a capable light attack bird.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder


This may be an aircraft engine but the Navy also want's to use it in the Gas Turbine ships. ;)
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
There is a reason why Brazilian plans for naval fighters look at a navalised Gripen - Brazil knows F-35 is off the table, and will never be on it.
And USA can also block the sale of Gripen, as it uses licensed F404 engine, licensing agreement includes American veto option on sales (rather unlikely though).
 
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gral

Well-known member
And USA can also block the sale of Gripen, as it uses licensed F404 engine, licensing agreement includes American veto option on sales (rather unlikely though).
It can, yes. But it's way less 'sensitive' than the F-35.
 

paulobrito

Well-known member
The US as long ago weaponized ITAR. Basically, if you want to buy a western plane not subject to the american control buy a Rafale.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Brazil was offered FA-18 Superhornets a while ago but the Gripens won the competition or whatever, so Brazil's Air Force is likely to be Gripens for the Air Force and for the Navy if they can get Navalized Gripens to work on their new Carrier. Plus unlike the Hornets (or likely any other aircraft) Brazil wants to build Gripens themselves... and sell them to other Latin American nations because a lot of countries down there in Latin America are kinda wanting new jets more or less (and by every country I mean like 2 or 4 or so).

The Rafale has been getting a lot of export success because it's not dependent on US (or British) trade restrictions but I can see why Brazil wouldn't be interested in Raffies considering their previous procurement history with French equipment. :p
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
USS Vella Gulf is being decomissioned. She is a Ticonderoga class Guided Missile Cruiser that has served in the US Navy for twenty nine years. It is one of four cruisers to be decomissioned and placed in Reserve due to the fact it is not modernized like other cruisers of its class.


Hopefully she can become a Museum ship eventually. The Spruance Hull forms should not all be sunk as targets.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Hopefully she can become a Museum ship eventually. The Spruance Hull forms should not all be sunk as targets.
How about having someone else pay to recommission and update her and the other decom'd Tico's?

Because well, Ukraine is in rather dire need of new/more warships.
 

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