He actually worked on them.
You didnt
Warship Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
- Start date
You didnt
I am Main Propulsion plant NEC qualified. I also served on the USS Nicholson DD 982 (The Nasty Nick). I know exactly what I am talking about.
That has nothing to do with a Naval Propulsion plant. Look when the two Turbines in MER1 and the two turbines in MER2 are brought online together. The Chiefs in Central get to put the throttle from the halfway mark which is Full Speed and labeled 35kts and move it all the way to Flank Speed which is the 40 KNOT MARK. Do I literally have to post the pic of my ship going at flank speed for you to get the picture of just how much water was being moved.
IIRC isn't there then a detent past which is Emergency? I know according to Friedman in US Destroyers that the plant is designed for a 25% margin over rated output for emergency situations which I believe is standard for all naval plants. Is that accurate?
Honestly, Bintanarth, Sailor X has infinitely more credibility as a former watchstander with relevant subject matter experience than you do
Honestly, Bintanarth, Sailor X has infinitely more credibility as a former watchstander with relevant subject matter experience than you do
The Navy likes to have a cushion on all of it's Ship systems just in case of an Oh Shit situation. And Oh Shit situations tend to happen from time to time. So yes the Engineering plants of ships have way more room for emergency situations. Example a Spru Can can steam with both Main Enginerooms online for 4 days straight. My ship did that back during the 80s when it had to get across the Atlantic in a short period of time.
And completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I've always had a soft spot for the SpruCans, to be honest. While the Burkes are the 'new hotness', the SpruCans were pure Destroyer, the spiritual successor to the Fletchers of WW2. They were true general purpose warships, and I still think we need a true successor, not just more specialists.
Yes we do. The regular General Purpose Destroyer and the regular General Purpose Frigate are what the US Navy needs get more of in the fleet.
Is your allegedly being an engineer where this constant need to be so unique and special, and absolutely the smartest most knowledgeable person in the room comes from? You're arguing with someone who served on the freakin' ship and actually ran it, probably before you were even born. Maybe step out of the "I R expert" mode for a second.
Supposedly that's going to be the FREMM-copy we're building, which...is eh to me; it's servicable and proven, but it's also a Euro-frig.
We'd be better off seeing if we can license build Akizuki's, given the supply of parts for them in Japan itself to ease logistic's in the Pacific.
Those are both air defense destroyers. We need a proper general purpose vessel
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
honestly not sure if a GP destroyer design is something anyone is building right now
There really aren't, just about everything is air defense oriented. Which is fine, but there are other threats, and air defense, especially missile defense, ships are inordinately expensive.
What I think we need is a true GP design. 2 5" guns, VLS tubes for anti-ship, anti-submarine, and land-attack missiles, as well as ESSM equivalent for self defense, a large hangar for ASW helicopters (my preference would be a hangar that can either handle 1 King Stallion or 2 Seahawks) with both hull and towed sonar arrays.
One 'rule' I'd set is that the designers are allowed ONE and only ONE 'advanced' design element. Everything else must be in common use by the Navy already. For example, for the SpruCans, the 'one advanced design element' was the gas turbine power plant, prior to the SpruCans the navy only dabbled with gas turbines in light units and small craft. Every other system on the ship was one that had already proven itself in previous construction. This way, you avoid the situation you had with the Zumwalts, where they became a high-tech showcase that were ridiculously expensive and extremely buggy.
What about upgraded Coast Guard cutters, lengthened to fit VLS/extra supplies/CIWS; it's only one gun, but it could do everything else listed.
bintananth
behind a desk
That's not a bad idea.
The best ASW escort the US had during WWII was the Coast Guard's Treasury-class.
They were about the same size as a Fletcher, had 3 fewer 5" guns, no torpedoes, and were 16.5kts slower*. They also had such enormous range that Maine to Hawaii and back without refueling might be possible.
* A Fletcher's machinery is literally about 10 times as powerful as a Treasury's.
All the Treasury-class was was rebadged Eries, and while they were excellent ASW boats, they were useless at anything else. Also note that the 'kill rate' is deceptive, there were a small number of Treasury-class ships, and they served longer than the various DE classes of which there were an order of magnitude more. They sank 4 enemy submarines between all 7 ships for the loss of 1 of their own.
The problem with using lengthened Coast Guard ships (I'm assuming you are talking about the Legend class?) is the 28 knot maximum speed, the CODAG propulsion plant, and that they are actually relatively lightly built (the decks are only stressed for up to 57mm guns, for example, rather than 5").
While they meet DC standards, and can be upgraded to a decent Frigate, they are FFs, not DDs.
I'd start with a Flight III Burke hull, delete everything above the weather deck, a new superstructure featuring a lighter radar suite optimized for self-defense and surface action, better integrate the towed array rather than have it as an afterthought, duel 5", 1 fore, 1 aft, a pair of 16 cell VLS systems for a mix of ASW, Anti-Ship, and Land Attack missiles, 2 of the same lateral VLS arrays used in the Zumwalts loaded with ESSM quad packs for self defense, since by the time any such ship could be built we'll have more programmatic experience with the IPS (once they ironed out the bugs on the Zums, the IPS became quite reliable) that wouldn't be the One New Thing, instead I'd install a suite of laser-based anti-missile/drone systems as the 'One New Thing'.
The problem with using lengthened Coast Guard ships (I'm assuming you are talking about the Legend class?) is the 28 knot maximum speed, the CODAG propulsion plant, and that they are actually relatively lightly built (the decks are only stressed for up to 57mm guns, for example, rather than 5").
While they meet DC standards, and can be upgraded to a decent Frigate, they are FFs, not DDs.
I'd start with a Flight III Burke hull, delete everything above the weather deck, a new superstructure featuring a lighter radar suite optimized for self-defense and surface action, better integrate the towed array rather than have it as an afterthought, duel 5", 1 fore, 1 aft, a pair of 16 cell VLS systems for a mix of ASW, Anti-Ship, and Land Attack missiles, 2 of the same lateral VLS arrays used in the Zumwalts loaded with ESSM quad packs for self defense, since by the time any such ship could be built we'll have more programmatic experience with the IPS (once they ironed out the bugs on the Zums, the IPS became quite reliable) that wouldn't be the One New Thing, instead I'd install a suite of laser-based anti-missile/drone systems as the 'One New Thing'.
Backed upped by standard CIWS just in case...of course!
Indeed, in fact I would specify that the mounting points for this system must be capable of being backfitted with a standard Phalanx or SeaRAM system with minimal effort, mostly a crane.