History Western Civilization, Rome and Cyclical History

ATP

Well-known member
To be fair that's assuming Agenda 2030 goes like they plan which is...questionable I'd argue. Not only did the rising populist movement catch them off guard but I think they legit were not expecting some of the economic issues going on in China and Russia to occur as they have. I think they legit thought a command economy was doable and Covid was supposed to be the test to prove it. These people have been in their ivory towers so long that they don't know how things work. The question is what are they going to do when Agenda 2030 fails? Are they going to BSOD and freeze or are they going to try and burn everything down Ala Operation Cinder from Disney Era Star Wars?
They still try to enslave us.And maybe even succed for few years...till muslim take over.
But,no matter what happen,about 2035 we would have now world,for better or worst.
I hope for Chrystianitas,but knowing my luck it probable would be green lgbt soviet caliphate.....
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
Given that he died a matter of months before the Spanish Civil War broke out, one wonders what Spengler would have made of that conflict; he at the very least must have noticed the waters becoming more turbulent in Spain.

I bring that up because more than a few, and not without reason, reckon that the Spanish Civil War is effectively a vision of what is to come in America and Europe.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Given that he died a matter of months before the Spanish Civil War broke out, one wonders what Spengler would have made of that conflict; he at the very least must have noticed the waters becoming more turbulent in Spain.

I bring that up because more than a few, and not without reason, reckon that the Spanish Civil War is effectively a vision of what is to come in America and Europe.
Optymist.We do not have Franco,at least not in Poland.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Given that he died a matter of months before the Spanish Civil War broke out, one wonders what Spengler would have made of that conflict; he at the very least must have noticed the waters becoming more turbulent in Spain.

I bring that up because more than a few, and not without reason, reckon that the Spanish Civil War is effectively a vision of what is to come in America and Europe.

if the wests version of ceasar is another franco then the west would be lucky indeed for it could be much much worse.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Given that he died a matter of months before the Spanish Civil War broke out, one wonders what Spengler would have made of that conflict; he at the very least must have noticed the waters becoming more turbulent in Spain.

I bring that up because more than a few, and not without reason, reckon that the Spanish Civil War is effectively a vision of what is to come in America and Europe.

As far as the shape of things is concerned, I certainly do agree the Spanish Civil War is fairly decent model for what the coming escalation of the wider social conflict across the West will look like. Not some relatively neatly divided territorial schism, but a messy struggle with poorly-defined front lines. Nevertheless, certain geographical centres of gravity will exist (e.g. the great metropoleis as concentrations of establishment presence). As indeed noted before, we really should imagine a mix-up of:

-- the Spanish Civil War (a right mess filled with ideologically motivated atrocities committed by both sides);

-- the American Civil War (a generally clearly defined sense of "us" versus "them");

-- Weimar Germany crossing over into Nazism (a degenerate system is torn down, but the process givs way to unrestrained and even sadistic revanchism that is bound to ecalate);

-- a side order of 1990s Yugoslavia (old grudges are very much alive, and many see the chaos as an opportunity to exact "justice"), and;

-- a bit of the Troubles (lots of paramilitary activity and irregular campaigns, again involving structural atrocities against civilian targets).

Oh, and obiously... this era of history began with the French Revolution, and its conclusion will mirror that. So any "Caesarist" faction, once triumphant, will almost certainly engage in something quite similar to the Reign of Terror. (A socio-politico-cultural "cleansing" process that will have shades of German concentration camps and Russian gulags, too, no doubt.) Well, look at that. The "highlights" of modernity, right there. It's like a fucked-up greatest hits album of the whole fucked-up era!



...Now, did Sengler say much about it? Not that I know of! He had the more acute example of the Weimar Republic's immolation right in front of him. I theorise that Spengler would have seen Franco as too much of a conservative. (He was, after all, no fan of the Junkers in Germany either. His "Prussianism" was essentially reformist. Rather like Nazism, but more intellectual, and without the deranged genocidal nonsense. "Third way authoritarianism, but done by sane people" might be the right one-line description.)

Arnold Toynbee did comment on the Spanish Civil War, and inevitably -- and correctly -- saw it as an expression of a wider conflict within Western civilisation. He asked whether this was even a civil war in the normal sense... or rather an international war, simply waged on Spanish territory. To ask the question is to answer it.
 
As far as the shape of things is concerned, I certainly do agree the Spanish Civil War is fairly decent model for what the coming escalation of the wider social conflict across the West will look like. Not some relatively neatly divided territorial schism, but a messy struggle with poorly-defined front lines. Nevertheless, certain geographical centres of gravity will exist (e.g. the great metropoleis as concentrations of establishment presence). As indeed noted before, we really should imagine a mix-up of:

-- the Spanish Civil War (a right mess filled with ideologically motivated atrocities committed by both sides);

-- the American Civil War (a generally clearly defined sense of "us" versus "them");

-- Weimar Germany crossing over into Nazism (a degenerate system is torn down, but the process givs way to unrestrained and even sadistic revanchism that is bound to ecalate);

-- a side order of 1990s Yugoslavia (old grudges are very much alive, and many see the chaos as an opportunity to exact "justice"), and;

-- a bit of the Troubles (lots of paramilitary activity and irregular campaigns, again involving structural atrocities against civilian targets).

Oh, and obiously... this era of history began with the French Revolution, and its conclusion will mirror that. So any "Caesarist" faction, once triumphant, will almost certainly engage in something quite similar to the Reign of Terror. (A socio-politico-cultural "cleansing" process that will have shades of German concentration camps and Russian gulags, too, no doubt.) Well, look at that. The "highlights" of modernity, right there. It's like a fucked-up greatest hits album of the whole fucked-up era!



...Now, did Sengler say much about it? Not that I know of! He had the more acute example of the Weimar Republic's immolation right in front of him. I theorise that Spengler would have seen Franco as too much of a conservative. (He was, after all, no fan of the Junkers in Germany either. His "Prussianism" was essentially reformist. Rather like Nazism, but more intellectual, and without the deranged genocidal nonsense. "Third way authoritarianism, but done by sane people" might be the right one-line description.)

Arnold Toynbee did comment on the Spanish Civil War, and inevitably -- and correctly -- saw it as an expression of a wider conflict within Western civilisation. He asked whether this was even a civil war in the normal sense... or rather an international war, simply waged on Spanish territory. To ask the question is to answer it.

so what are the best course of acction to ensure survival? By the revolution came about the revolutionists were consuming everything around them including themselves.
 

Poe

Well-known member
so what are the best course of acction to ensure survival? By the revolution came about the revolutionists were consuming everything around them including themselves.
During the french revolution the only two ways to for sure come out alive were

1. Take power and hold it (very difficult)
2. Stay out of politics
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
During the french revolution the only two ways to for sure come out alive were

1. Take power and hold it (very difficult)
2. Stay out of politics
2nd one was hit and miss. you could still end up as collateral if you engaged in wrong think or bad speech. such as using the old system of measurements or the old calendar or using gendered language. the mob would come for whoever caught their attention. the solution was to either flee or be a part of the mob.
 

Poe

Well-known member
2nd one was hit and miss. you could still end up as collateral if you engaged in wrong think or bad speech. such as using the old system of measurements or the old calendar or using gendered language. the mob would come for whoever caught their attention. the solution was to either flee or be a part of the mob.
This was mostly not true outside of the political class and definitely outside of Paris. Outside of these groups it was those who rebelled or put forth a different vision that wound up guillotined. But yes, it did happen. Revolutions are dangerous.
 

Poe

Well-known member
well in that case how long do we (and hummanity have to live?
Who knows, I'm positive there will be a solar system wide civilization in the next thousand years but others here may be more pessimistic.

The modern battle for the US is so important imo because it's the civilization in the best position to lay the foundations for a space fairing society and if that gets captured who knows when the next chance for liberty will be. Maybe never, and I'd consider eternal enslavement worse than humanity just dying out.
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
As far as the shape of things is concerned, I certainly do agree the Spanish Civil War is fairly decent model for what the coming escalation of the wider social conflict across the West will look like. Not some relatively neatly divided territorial schism, but a messy struggle with poorly-defined front lines. Nevertheless, certain geographical centres of gravity will exist (e.g. the great metropoleis as concentrations of establishment presence). As indeed noted before, we really should imagine a mix-up of:

-- the Spanish Civil War (a right mess filled with ideologically motivated atrocities committed by both sides);

-- the American Civil War (a generally clearly defined sense of "us" versus "them");

-- Weimar Germany crossing over into Nazism (a degenerate system is torn down, but the process givs way to unrestrained and even sadistic revanchism that is bound to ecalate);

-- a side order of 1990s Yugoslavia (old grudges are very much alive, and many see the chaos as an opportunity to exact "justice"), and;

-- a bit of the Troubles (lots of paramilitary activity and irregular campaigns, again involving structural atrocities against civilian targets).

Oh, and obiously... this era of history began with the French Revolution, and its conclusion will mirror that. So any "Caesarist" faction, once triumphant, will almost certainly engage in something quite similar to the Reign of Terror. (A socio-politico-cultural "cleansing" process that will have shades of German concentration camps and Russian gulags, too, no doubt.) Well, look at that. The "highlights" of modernity, right there. It's like a fucked-up greatest hits album of the whole fucked-up era!
And guess what? I’ve got to live through most of that.

Fan-fucking-tastic.

The French Revolution really did ruin everything for everyone.

Oh well, best start stocking up on tinned beans…
"Third way authoritarianism, but done by sane people" might be the right one-line description.)
IE, the Principate.

Ave Imperator Augustus Caesar.

Arnold Toynbee did comment on the Spanish Civil War, and inevitably -- and correctly -- saw it as an expression of a wider conflict within Western civilisation. He asked whether this was even a civil war in the normal sense... or rather an international war, simply waged on Spanish territory. To ask the question is to answer it.

Very insightful, although I’d wager it was a quintessentially Spanish affair with the outside world butting in.

Not to knock Toynbee in that regard. The man was very thorough and intelligent (his writings on the Middle East were considered essential reading for diplomats in the region as I understand). His only downside was his mistakenly stumbling into bed with Nazi Germany and having some curious views on Jews (again, as I understand).

Then again, that was common to the time.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
so in other words flee from the big cities and stick to just talk geek stuff on the internet until things cool down, got it.

That....does not work with wokies.

This why their fucked in the long run, the general rule in poltics is that you can be dangerous or obnoxious.

If your just dangerous people will leave you be, if your obnoxious people will try to ignore you. If your both, then people have no choice but to deal with you in a very painful way. Thats....pretty much why this is just going to end in in a horribly painful and completely unnessary fashion.
 
That....does not work with wokies.

This why their fucked in the long run, the general rule in poltics is that you can be dangerous or obnoxious.

If your just dangerous people will leave you be, if your obnoxious people will try to ignore you. If your both, then people have no choice but to deal with you in a very painful way. Thats....pretty much why this is just going to end in in a horribly painful and completely unnessary fashion.

At the risk of sounding cold, I'm not worried about the SJWs (They reap the fruits of their labor) I'm worried about me, my family, my friends, and my hobbies.
 

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