Yes. The Cooperative Threat Reduction program.
They're also giving our tax dollars to the friends of child sex traffickers, for them to conduct GOF research with.
China Wuhan Virus Pandemic
- Thread starter Arch Dornan
- Start date
They're also giving our tax dollars to the friends of child sex traffickers, for them to conduct GOF research with.
No.
Just giving common sense.
We are the leading country in medical breakthroughs for a reason.
We do this ro make sure that very virulent dieses don't escape due to poor performance.
Of course we can be stupid and have one in China. So there is that.
I am just letting you know that we have been working on these since the fall of the USSR.
Poland, Ukraine, etc etc.
If the USSR had a lab we have been working with the host nation to build it to standard.
Hey, I never said everything they s0end money on is for a good reason.
I am just letting you know what the biolabs everyone mentions is
We know about the labs. We don't think that's what the American govt has been doing with them.
If you actually knew anything about the topic (and i mean reading stuff about Soviet era bioweapon programs and their fate after Cold War, or even semi-realistic fiction related to this) you wouldn't be believing stupid shit like this.
Note the time... Russian propaganda already had experience in using this very same initiative to lead around gullible people, in slightly different context.
Ex-Soviet Bioweapons Labs Are Fighting COVID-19. Moscow Doesn’t Like It.
One of the greatest achievements of U.S. foreign policy has been targeted by a vicious disinformation campaign.
foreignpolicy.com
If they were true, why aren't they parading the evidence in front of the UN? Why are there no follow up events, sentencing of the guilty, and so on?
Who's "we"?
World events do not revolve around the pet conspiracy theory of the week. Russia meanwhile takes any opportunity it can to spread propaganda for own goals. It's not something new that they are alleged of doing, this is so common it was already noticed before we were even alive. This is a great list going back to Soviet era on similar propaganda initiatives:
So making shit up about the bioscience related stuff goes well beyond the current new cold war.
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The only ones 'pushing' the war are Putin and his friends who chose to cause this war.
The war could end tomorrow if Putin wanted it to, and called his troops home.
No amount of Wu Flu fuckery makes what Russia is doing justified or makes cutting support/aid for Ukraine moral.
Dude, we have literally had this same debate not more than a few weeks ago, people have repeatedly shown and explained the US was just trying to make old Soviet labs OSHA complaint to keep shit like lab leaks from happening.
But I know this is just going in one ear and out the other, because admitting that you've fallen for a Russian psy-op would hurt your pride too much to ever admit.
I didn't say anything about Russia and Ukraine. The war mongers want more than one war.
If the CCP decide to move on Taiwan, that's on them, not us.
It is not wrong to aid countries like Taiwan and Ukraine when they have large, belligerent neighbors who want to take them over.
People need to accept that war is never going to absent from the human condition, and no amount of US public discontent is going to change that.
We need to prosecute Fauci and the people who were in on it, however acting as if the foreign tensions are all just a distraction from the Wu Flu shit is...ignoring a lot of wider context and data points showing otherwise.
The real issue is that other countries have warmongers too, professional ones at that, and their professional term for people who complain about warmongers in western countries is "useful idiots".
Si vis pacem, para bellum. We should be beyond copying the idiocy of Soviet manipulated anti war movements and copying their rhetoric.
You're putting a lot of meaning into what I said for me, and I don't appreciate that.
I am pointing out that the US government is admitting that it was a lab leak in China, because that fits their current narrative.
It's not because the truth won. It's not because they were held accountable. It's not because they were pressured into telling the truth. They're telling the truth now because it helps with the pro war narrative. Simple. If it didn't they'd still be lying about it. You can assign whatever value to that you'd like.
>pro-war narrative
What pro-war narrative? Especially, what pro-war narrative that didn't exist before COVID already? You think the tensions around Taiwan are only a thing since then? Oh boy...
They were trying very much to keep China happy and not let any blame fall on them for the wu flu.
Now that they need suckers like you to support more war, its okay for them to acknowledge where it came from.
I'm not against Taiwan defending itself, or us helping if it comes to that.
But at least I can see through the propaganda. That's all that's changed here. They need more people to support defending Taiwan, so it's okay to admit that China started the Wu Flu now.
"support more war"
This isn't about "muh war", this isn't about US pet peeves, internal narratives and social movements, stop navel gazing for a moment and listen.
This is ass backwards analysis of the chain of events. No one thinks like this. There are no muh war Khornate like leaders in the cucked leftist West who suddenly decided that they want war and so war it will be.
They just didn't want to escalate with China and also drag out own dirty laundry while the situation was unclear, first they weren't sure, then they were and so was everyone else but they didn't want to aid tensions for no reason... Guess now that China itself is making moves showing that it's game for tensions, well, nothing to lose now, not even delusional hopes of CCP not taking niceness as weakness.
Conflict can never be just about one side making moves on own whim, there has to always be another side and have a vote. If you see someone trying to sell you stories along the line of "and then, for no reason, our evil warmongers decided to push for war for the totally innocent other side that did absolutely nothing", investigate deeper before you just fall for a teenage hippy grade narrative.
That implies they didn't need people to support defending Taiwan back in 2020, 2015 or 2010, which is a rather interesting idea to have.
It's the earlier toning down of that revelation in the name of deescalation that was undeserved by China and was a mistake, something quite a few people said earlier and were called warmongers for. Hence i don't complain about "muh warmongers", i would complain about the "deescalation faction" of CCP servants who were holding them back earlier.
None of what I am saying of feeling has anything to do with propaganda, just what I have observed, and an ability to separate our domestic BS from Ukraine's security and sovereignty situation.
War has happened since humans have walked the earth, it will never be absent from the human condition, and at least now the lines are clear, and maybe we can finally break through to the normies about this shit.
Look, I get being bitter over the fact this is only being allowed now, after so much BS happened, and so many people suffered for trying to out this beforehand.
I had 90% of my FB posts on the subject nuked during 2020/2021, and I know what it means to want to be angry over this suddenly now being kosher because the CCP finally showed it was likely to side with Russia in Putin's invasion of Ukraine. While you, Roci, man, what they did pushing out of your old job wasn't right, so I get where you are coming from.
Using the phrase 'pro-war' make me assume you meant the current invasion f Ukraine, not the Taiwan Straights situation; I am sorry I it upset you that I made that assumption, I didn't intend to do that.
See, all this assumes that any of our positions have changed on Taiwan; I've supported Taiwan's independence since...well, as long as I can remember, pretty sure the same with many here.
Why is support for Taiwan suddenly an issue?
Support for Taiwan is not an issue.
I'm just pointing out that they're only admitting the truth about China because Ira convenient for them to do it now. Make of that what you will.
Or conversely, perhaps because it was particularly inconvenient for them to cross this Rubicon back then?
Considering the chaotic nature of supply lines back then, wouldn't that make a lot more sense?
I sm going to attempt to Steel-man your argument. Please correct me if I am wrong on anything.
You're arguing that they lied to us back then to ease tensions, because we had vital supply lines to maintain while things werr very fragile, and now that we have moved on from the immediate disaster, it's safer for them to tell the truth?
Kinda, part of it. The current US leadership is not famous for its competence, so it's easy to imagine there was a lot of running around like headless chickens and their plate was already full with immediate problems, nevermind with all the more and less malicious interventions by China lobby, medical sector, business sector and so on to also press on with the blame games and escalation with China at the same time, so they didn't.
But now, when China is starting to be trouble again, well, why bother continuing to go out of their way to forget this issue?
So we are actually mostly in agreement with each other.
What I'm trying to point out is that them coming clean about the truth isn't some virtuous act. It just works for them now.
And my issue with that is that those of us who could see and were telling the truth way back then, were silenced on social media with orders from government officials, and slandered as racists by the media. Yet here we are 3 years later, and suddenly it's "yeah you guys were right."
I'm warning people not to perceive this as the government finally coming around to the truth, or as a victory. They've known the truth the whole time, and it's just more convenient for them now to tell the truth. They'd be fine with continuing to lie if they thought that would benefit them more.
I'm still pissed for being called a racist conspiracy theorist and having my voice silenced for telling the truth.
>them
There are many lobbies in the establishment, trust me, some certainly are still against it.
Does it *have* to be a virtuous act, rather than purely pragmatic one?
So, the problem is in no way with the people who wanted it out, and have finally gotten their way.
The problem is that the people who held them back for so long don't seem to be suffering crippling professional consequences at least, and criminal trials preferably, where their motivations and connections to China would be examined closely.
And those people most certainly aren't "the warmongers".
How is coming around to the truth not counting if you suspect it's not for the motives you would prefer for them to come around to the truth for? It either is the truth or it isn't.