Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

[WolfBear]

I very much doubt that would be necessary. For one, unlike the Southern states, which were (with the exception of West Virginia) kept in the same territorial form, the dualist stucture of the Empire would be wholly dissolved, and the non-Hungarian regions of the former Hungarian half would all be immediatised.

"Hungary" would thus be a territorially reduced member state of the Empire, with no authority over Slovakia, Transylvania, Ruthenia or Croatia. (I assume that Vienna wouldn't want the Romanians too powerful, so I think Hungary would be allowed to retain the Székely Land, and probably a land strip stretching towards it.)

Furthermore, the Hungarian elites most interested in maintaining the old status quo would be replaced by more co-operative reformists, who'd get to carry out their 'domestic' agenda for Hungarian politics in echange for accepting the new reality.

The resulting Austrian Empire would either be quasi-federal, or at least embrace a measure of political devolution. This would allow the Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians, Poles, Greek Catholic Ukrainanians, Hungarians, Romanians, Croats and Slovenes a degree of self-government over the internal affairs of their own constituent provinces/states within the Empire, and would almost certainly give all their languages official status (besides German, the 'imperial language') in all domestic matters.

You could have a separate Szekely Land federal unit, separate from the rest of Hungary. Without a land connection to the rest of Hungary.

You're thinking of something like the US of GA Plan, right?

United States of Greater Austria - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That would be very interesting! Would be even more interesting to see if Serbia, Romania, and--if it ever becomes independent from Russia, Poland--would ever be willing to join this US of GA in order to reunite with their fellow ethnic kinsmen. Especially the first two here. Poland can get Galicia in exchange for a Hapsburg King, I suppose.

 

[Zyobot]

Somewhat ASB scenario I thought up just now, but: ‘What If The Dead Could Post Online?’.

As in, people who’ve passed away not only exist after death, but can also upload content, comments, and social-media posts from beyond the grave. Maybe even livestreams, too, so long as they’re able to do everything else. They can finally tell us what the afterlife is like, too, so there’s that.

 

[WolfBear]

Somewhat ASB scenario I thought up just now, but: ‘What If The Dead Could Post Online?’.

As in, people who’ve passed away not only exist after death, but can also upload content, comments, and social-media posts from beyond the grave. Maybe even livestreams, too, so long as they’re able to do everything else. They can finally tell us what the afterlife is like, too, so there’s that.

Pretty epic if they could post online but not actually be anywhere else in the world in person. So, you'd only be interacting with them online lol. I suppose that a Skype call with them would be epic if possible to do.

Would be interesting if we could use such methods to discover who Jack the Ripper was. Possibly. We could at least get good descriptions of him from his victims, if they haven't already forgotten him by then.

Would be pretty cool to ask a lot of famous people a lot of questions, as well as supercentenarians. Also, are mentally ill people going to get cured in the afterlife, or what? And is there a Hell for people such as Adolf Hitler?

 

[WolfBear]

"Austria Paying the Fiddler"--an alternate dismemberment of Austria-Hungary

"Austria Paying the Fiddler"--a post-WW1 dismemberment of the Austro-Hungarian Empre rather different from that of OTL, wth an even smaller Austria an a larger Hungary: https://web.archive.org/web/20100120070521/http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2010/01/17/xxx-austria-paying-the-fiddler/ "This...

www.alternatehistory.com

@raharris1973 In regards to your comment here:

One consequence of this map would be a less dissatisfied Hungary, and one that does not see Germany or Austria as natural allies. Instead, it will have a common border and probably alliance with Poland. And, it will see Czechoslavia/Bohemia as an important buffer state, and any Austro-German moves to absorb Bohemia as a dangerous stepping stone towards reconstruction of Austria-Hungary. So I expect Budapest to support the independence of Prague.

Hungary can have whatever opinions it wants on preserving Czech/Bohemian independence, but when Czechia/Bohemia will be surrounded by Germany by three sides (as will happen if Germany will eventually annex Austria, as in 1938 in real life), then fighting for Czech independence will likely be suicidal for Hungary. The Anglo-French won't be able to save Hungary from a couple of years of German occupation. Would it really be worth it?

 

[Zyobot]

Pretty epic if they could post online but not actually be anywhere else in the world in person. So, you'd only be interacting with them online lol. I suppose that a Skype call with them would be epic if possible to do.

Would be interesting if we could use such methods to discover who Jack the Ripper was. Possibly. We could at least get good descriptions of him from his victims, if they haven't already forgotten him by then.

Would be pretty cool to ask a lot of famous people a lot of questions, as well as supercentenarians. Also, are mentally ill people going to get cured in the afterlife, or what? And is there a Hell for people such as Adolf Hitler?

Seconding all of these, though there are a few more ramifications I’d like to add.

For one, I’m guessing friends and families of the deceased will have joyous, if also tearful reunions with those they’ve lost. Even if it’s only over a Skype call, that still beats the heck out of waiting a few more decades before meeting them again — wherever it is The Dead actually go.

Famous people’s a big one, too, though for those who died long before the internet went mainstream, I suppose ASB can hand-wave that and give them automatic proficiency in using the Web. Online interviews with historical figures like Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great? I’d certainly watch those! Unfortunately, I can’t vouch for how well they’d explain away all their Machiavellian power plays and innocent people they killed in their conquests to a twenty-first century audience.

That said, they’d still have it easier than more recent figures who modern society reviles to begin with having a presence online. You already mentioned him, but Hitler on Twitter was something that crossed my mind when I first thought of this scenario, as well. Of course, I doubt he’d last long before being banned or dog-piled by an army of unhappy users — dead and living alike — but ar least the blue checkmarks should stop bemoaning Trump now. Might even write opinion pieces for the Daily Stormer and other Neo-Nazi conspiracy sites, too, which is equally unpleasant to think about.

 

[WolfBear]

Unfortunately, I can’t vouch for how well they’d explain away all their Machiavellian power plays and innocent people they killed in their conquests to a twenty-first century audience.

That said, they’d still have it easier than more “modern” figures who we already hate having a presence online. You already mentioned him, but Hitler on Twitter was something that crossed my mind when I first thought of this scenario, as well. Of course, I doubt he’d last long before being banned or dog-piled by an army of unhappy users — dead and living alike — but ar least the blue checkmarks should stop bemoaning Trump now.

Hitler might be surprised that one of his biggest fans right now is a black guy lol. Or perhaps not:

The Developing World Thinks Hitler Is Underrated

In the West, the Nazi Führer is thought of as a genocidal maniac — everywhere else, he’s considered a political inspiration.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[WolfBear]

There is a precedent for associating Salzburg with Bavaria, FWIW:

 

[WolfBear]

@Zyobot If we could put virtual minds into artificial bodies, then in your dead people online TL, we could actually put these people's souls, or at least replicas of them, in artificial bodies so that they could once again explore the world, albeit without them either eating or drinking.

There's actually a movie about Hitler returning to life, albeit in real flesh and blood:

Look Who's Back (film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zyobot]

Eh, I’m thinking more they try to BS their way out of tough questions, kind of like Putin, Assad, and other strongmen today do whenever interviewed by Western journalists. Sure, the majority of us would see through the farce, but even in cases where you’re obviously full of shit, saving face still matters — which isn’t very sensible in my opinion, but no one asked me, so…

 

[WolfBear]

Eh, I’m thinking more they try to BS their way out of tough questions, kind of like Putin, Assad, and other strongmen today do whenever interviewed by Western journalists. Sure, the majority of us would see through it, but even in cases where it’s obvious you’re full of shit, saving face still matters — which isn’t very sensible in my opinion, but no one asked me, so…

Yep, makes sense. Kind of life when Putin talks about BLM:

Putin cites "disorder" of Black Lives Matter, questions U.S. Capitol riot arrests

Russian President Vladimir Putin batted away a question about his crackdown on political rivals on Wednesday by saying he was trying to avoid the "disorder" of a popular movement such as Black Lives Matter in the United States.

www.reuters.com

 

[WolfBear]

More poor, more Communism.

What's interesting is that US blacks never saw much appeal in Communism, in general. Exceptions existed, but they were rare. Apparently it was bad enough being black in the US in the early 20th century without also being red.

 

[WolfBear]

Sure, but that wouldn't prevent the politicans from sending the army in anyway. The response of the USA might be more important, but considering the PR of kicking out the mexican army from their soil, even if the citizens there voted for joining the USA, is very bad...

You'd create a Crimea-like situation for the US lol, possibly eventually followed by Mexican attempts to create an alliance with China to prevent the US from ever conquering any additional Mexican territory, similar to Ukrainian appeals for NATO membership to protect itself against Russia in real life.

 

[WolfBear]

What if the Spanish Influenza epidemic of 1918 killed not a "mere" 20 to 50 million people, but killed everyone infected? That is, 500 million people: One third of the human population at the time?

Black Death 2: Electric Boogaloo. Depending on just how much of its population the West loses will affect just how much scientific and technological advancement will be halted or possibly even reversed.

Here's one: Suppose China got on the modernization kick that Japan did in order to stop being made the bitches of the West?

I wonder if China will ever attempt to seek Lebensruam in this scenario, and, if so, where exactly. Central Asia?

 

[stevep]

Indeed.Even in OTL,if they attacked ONLY them in 1940 after fall of France,USA would do nothing.And Japan could not join war at all.

If your talking about after May 1940 that means war with the British empire, which changes a lot whether the US sits on its hands or not. Wouldn't be sure that the US would do nothing in a crisis like that as it undermines its entire policy in both Europe and the Far East.

Also if your nightmare scenario occurred it would probably mean that Japan felt bullish enough to join the attack on the Soviets.

 

[ATP]

If your talking about after May 1940 that means war with the British empire, which changes a lot whether the US sits on its hands or not. Wouldn't be sure that the US would do nothing in a crisis like that as it undermines its entire policy in both Europe and the Far East.

Also if your nightmare scenario occurred it would probably mean that Japan felt bullish enough to join the attack on the Soviets.

Why nightmare? OTL gave part of world to commies.Japan winning certainly would be better.
And,i am taking about attacking dutch during Battle of England - Churchill could do nothing then.

Attacking soviets later - they could win and take Siberia,then made separate peace with soviets.
Sralin offered peace to germans at least till 1942 - but greedy idiots ALWAYS wonted moar.
Smart Japan here would say :OK,we take half of Siberia" ,and never join war on german side.

 

[WolfBear]

Why nightmare? OTL gave part of world to commies.Japan winning certainly would be better.
And,i am taking about attacking dutch during Battle of England - Churchill could do nothing then.

Attacking soviets later - they could win and take Siberia,then made separate peace with soviets.
Sralin offered peace to germans at least till 1942 - but greedy idiots ALWAYS wonted moar.
Smart Japan here would say :OK,we take half of Siberia" ,and never join war on german side.

Agreed that ironically Japanese rule might be better for Chinese in the short-run relative to Communist rule. No Great Leap Backwards, Cultural Revolution, Communist totalitarianism and tyranny, et cetera. But having Chiang Kai-shek win the Chinese Civil War would be even better for Chinese.

 

[Zyobot]

Agreed that ironically Japanese rule might be better for Chinese in the short-run relative to Communist rule. No Great Leap Backwards, Cultural Revolution, Communist totalitarianism and tyranny, et cetera. But having Chiang Kai-shek win the Chinese Civil War would be even better for Chinese.

Dunno if Japanese rule would be too much better, exactly. Sure, they never drafted a Final Solution equivalent for the entire Asia-Pacific, but being less genocidally ambitious than the Nazis is a pretty easy bar to clear and doesn't offer much promise for period of sane, enlightened rule under Japanese occupation.

On the other hand... the fact we're comparing CCP rule to Imperial Japan is still a damning indictment of the former's track record. For one, if you have a regime that kills more of its own people and inflicts more long-term structural damage on its own nation than freakin' Imperial Japan did, it's safe to say your regime is pretty goddamned shit.

 

[WolfBear]

Dunno if Japanese rule would be too much better, exactly. Sure, they never drafted a Final Solution equivalent for the entire Asia-Pacific, but being less genocidally ambitious than the Nazis is a pretty easy bar to clear and doesn't offer much promise for period of sane, enlightened rule under Japanese occupation.

On the other hand, the fact we're comparing CCP rule to Imperial Japan is still a damning indictment of the former's track record. For one, if you have a regime that kills more of its own people and inflicts more long-term structural damage on its own nation than freakin' Imperial Japan did, it's safe to say your regime is pretty goddamned shit.

Completely agreed with all of this. FWIW, I suspect that the Imperial Japanese might be content to foster cultural genocide on the Chinese, with attempts to force a "Greater Japanese Imperial" identity onto the Chinese along with of course the Koreans, Manchurians, and Taiwanese.

 

[Zyobot]

Completely agreed with all of this. FWIW, I suspect that the Imperial Japanese might be content to foster cultural genocide on the Chinese, with attempts to force a "Greater Japanese Imperial" identity onto the Chinese along with of course the Koreans, Manchurians, and Taiwanese.

Probably. But even then, it's hard to compare to how badly the CCP desecrated the culture of their own nation and turned it into a broken, hollowed-out shell of the great civilization that China had once been.

Only indisputable plus of living IOTL here is how Korea and Taiwan have remained untouched by cultural genocide at the hands of Chinese communists, though whether that continues to be the case is yet to be seen.

 

[WolfBear]

Only indisputable plus of living IOTL here is how Korea and Taiwan have remained untouched by cultural genocide at the hands of Chinese communists, though whether that continues to be the case is yet to be seen.

South Korea, Yes. North Korea experienced their own shit, unfortunately. And Taiwan's odds of holding out against China have probably risen due to Russia's failures in its current war against Ukraine, unless of course China decides to invade right now, and even then, Chinese victory is far from a sure thing.