Alternate History Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
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TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
There were two Vasa branches, from what I can reckon. Gustavus Adolphus is from the Swedish branch.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
‘Warren G. Harding Lives Longer’.
And thus, probably has to answer for the Teapot Dome Scandal, rather than die in office before the details can come to light and escape the kind of scrutiny Nixon got IOTL.
And thus, probably has to answer for the Teapot Dome Scandal, rather than die in office before the details can come to light and escape the kind of scrutiny Nixon got IOTL.
Even better - Poland attacking soviets with Japan in 1930,when soviets do not have mass produced tanks yet and everybody there waited for salvation.
Unfortunatelly - both ruling Sanacja and opposition was against it....
So,maybe only Japan? it stil would change History - Japan with Siberia have oil and do not need attacking China.
Could show to entire world soviet crimes,too.
Buba
A total creep
Oil was in both parts, IIRC there was more of it in the Soviet part. Still, Japan had an agreement to exploit those fields and did so up to the early '40s.
There was a shitload of oil in Manchuria, but discovered c.1950.
Enough to not attack USA if they made sanction - but,in this TL,there would be no USA sanctions if Japan take Siberia in 1930 and showed mass graves there.
Japan after that would not need any other conqests,all they need/minerals and place to settle/ would be there.
P.S according to what i read - Yakut people who live there look like japaneese,till they start talking.
Becouse both culture and language are different.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
‘Rome And Carthage Remain On Friendly Terms’.
In other words, no Punic Wars or other flashpoints that embroil them in large-scale conflicts. In fact, while I doubt they’d be BFFs like the US and UK are, avoiding even Cold War or Great Game-style tensions that could still mushroom into outright warfare would be preferable.
In other words, no Punic Wars or other flashpoints that embroil them in large-scale conflicts. In fact, while I doubt they’d be BFFs like the US and UK are, avoiding even Cold War or Great Game-style tensions that could still mushroom into outright warfare would be preferable.
Very difficult because with the Greek 'threat' in decline their the two big powers and hence natural rivals. You could get some partition agreement with say Rome getting the Italian mainland and Carthage Sicily and other islands. However sooner or later Rome will seek to expand outside Italy and while they might go largely eastwards into the Greek world there is probably going to be a clash at some points.
Remember also that relations between the UK and US only really became 'good' after 2 world wars and economic pressure from the US basically made Britain a protectorate/puppet. Until that time American expansionists tended to paint the UK as a 'threat' that must be crushed. I still find posters with that attitude on-line today. Partly its because the US creation mythos has Britain as the great enemy but also as the US sought to expand its power outside its continental lands its chief role was replacing Britain as the primary naval and trading power. I could see similar problems developing with a Rome-Carthage pact.
Buba
A total creep
Yup. Pee-pee waving to da maXXor.
The most profitable element of the British Empire was ... Latin America.
Japan could had done same in China - invest, support warlords promising stability, and rake in the dosh.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
There was a faction in Japan aiming to achieve this-- although even they fully intended to strip at least Manchuria off China. Sun Yat-sen was supported by Black Dragon Society. In this, they were motivated by the idea of pan-Asian opposition to Western imperialism. (While in Japanese exile, Sun Yat-sen also met and befriended Mariano Ponce, who was likewise supported by them; they similarly supported Emilio Aguinaldo.)
So, there are possibilities for a still-ultranationalist Japan that seeks to co-operate with China and the Philippines in a more genuine "East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere".
Buba
A total creep
I take it that they lost the debate on policy ... hopefully without being "suicided" or something like that as a result ...
In 1910-20 Manchuria was still relatively empty. Empty as in "10M people on 1M km2".
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CastilloVerde
Active member
Funny. Shrek was actually in production at the same time as Prince of Egypt, which is all the more interesting because Shrek was regarded by the studio as the less prestigious project. Apparently, being sent to work on Shrek was almost like being punished! Shrek then surprisingly became much more commercially successful than Prince of Egypt. This opportunity allowed Dreamworks studios to effectively rival Disney following the end of the so-called Disney Renaissance.‘No Shrek Movies’.
I think if Shrek was not released, that would be bad for the Dreamworks studios unless those resources involved with Shrek were put to better use in a different project. Unfortunately, much of Dreamworks films around this time never matched Shrek in popularity until maybe Madagascar. Could Dreamworks have made an alternative film to take Shrek's place?
CastilloVerde
Active member
Rome and Carthage would sooner or later come into conflict, especially once Rome could interfere in Carthage's sphere of influence.
The latest this could be prevented is for Pyrrhos to decisively win the war named after him, allowing his Epirote kingdom a permanent sphere of influence in Magna Graecia. If Magna Graecia never comes under roman domination, then Rome could not effectively contest Carthage in Sicily, preventing the Punic Wars. The hard part is allowing Epirus to survive in this manner.
An even earlier POD would be even better. In this scenario, Rome loses the Samnite wars. The effect of this would mean that an independent Samnite confederation exists in southern Italy, and also more importantly, Rome would never get big enough to challenge Carthage.
With a POD during the Second (or Great) Samnite War (326-304 BC), a Samnite state could be viable enough to survive. Indeed, the wars with Rome helped to politically unify the various Samnite tribes and this war is the last realistic chance for a lasting Samnite state. The early phases of the war were bad for the Romans, but things reversed in the final stages, so if the Samnites could decisively defeat the Romans at the early phases, this would be preferred. At the very least, the 306 BC treaty concluded between Rome and Carthage wherein Carthage agreed that all Italy was to be under Rome's sphere of influence should be avoided.
Rome should be weakened enough, perhaps after a final Roman-Samnite War to settle it. The goal is to confine Rome to Central Italy and to hopefully change roman attitudes regarding war. Carthage and Rome should remain peaceful trade partners from now on.
Let's continue to speculate. I would then imagine that the Samnites would gradually involve themselves in Magna Graecia, assuming Pyrrhos still engages in his western adventure and returns to Greece with his "Pyrrhic" victories. The resulting vacuum in Magna Graecia would be a great opportunity for the Samnites to step in. Eventually, the Samnites slowly interfere with Carthaginian interests in the region.
The carthaginians would be wary of the Samnites, especially knowing that they were able to defeat the romans and put a good showing against Pyrrhos. Assuming the Samnites interfere with Sicilian affairs, that provides the set-up for a war.
Now, the first Punic War in OTL was a relatively close-run affair, so considering that Samnium would be weaker than Rome in OTL, Carthage would likely win. Carthage would perhaps use Roman mercenaries thanks to the Carthaginian tradition of hiring mercenaries. No doubt many Romans would not hesitate to take the opportunity to fight the Samnites. Future wars between the Samnites and Carthage would result, I imagine, allowing Carthage a foothold into southern Italy. A carthaginian garrison at Neapolis and Rhegium along the same lines as the OTL garrisons in Spain seem plausible. This would only allow Rome and Carthage to develop closer ties. In reality, what this does is bring Rome closer into Carthage's loose structure of allies and vassals.
Effectively, Carthaginian imperialism grows to encompass Rome. Carthage and Rome will remain "friends", but do note that "friends" - amicii - meant something similar to allies or vassals in this context. Samnium would eventually be defeated and Carthage's empire would encompass southern Italy. Spain would follow once (alt-)Hamilcar has any ideas. The result: Carthage's destiny as the western Mediterranean empire is fulfilled. (The Hellenistic states, in this context, would be left more or less alone to develop along pre-existing trends. @Skallagrim previously suggested Macedonia would be the victor in these struggles, which would make this an interesting world.)
At any rate, Hannibal would be pleased.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
An interesting prospect, so if you have any references you could direct me to on behind-the-scenes action and studios' internal decision-making, please send them my way. Don't know what the ramifications of no Shrek are, unfortunately — hence me asking you in the first place.
Other than that, I guess my interest was more in the run-off effects for meme culture. As you know, Shrek's one of Gen Z's favorite memes (and arguably for worse, at that). Seen in that light, I suppose my question was "half-frivolous", since a world without Shrek deification — while having minimal ramifications for the broader scope of history, save for the Entertainment World — would make internet subcultures a bit more "tame" and "mundane", I'm guessing. Could easily see something else take its place in ATL, of course, though really, I have a hard time imagining precisely what.
CastilloVerde
Active member
I don't know exactly where I first read about this. However a brief search on the Internet resulted in this article, as well as this and this. I wish I could find more "authoritative" sources, but these seem sufficient.
I figured. At any rate, though, there's nothing wrong with speculation on a possible path for Dreamworks.
Agreed with your other points.