And so it begins....

[AnimalNoodles]

America wont become an importer of food. Land will be seized or "redistributed" from white farmers, and given to 'diverse communities'. They will discover that farming is very hard and not at all glamorous, and most will sell out to agribusiness. The farms will be consolidated into vast corporate latifundia staffed by managers and worked by cheap and disposable migrant labourers paid at minimum wages and given no benefits.

 

[Julio92]

That's naive as hell where does this land come from huh? Its sure not going to be uniwneed land if you think it is your delusional. They'll seize people's land to give it to other people

Because we have guns to and aren't leaving? This is our country to bro weve been here longer then many many whites. So tell you what me and mine will go to Africa when you and yours go to Europe.

My point was that there were simpler, more complete and effective ways of solving the problem that land redistribution will "solve", not saying that it is practical, nor a preferable path at this point.

 

[Battlestar]

Farming is tough. Will people taking the land be able to farm or will they resell it?

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Farming is tough. Will people taking the land be able to farm or will they resell it?

That depends

If they don’t resell it, and if they give up on actually farming, some bigger douchebags will try gaming the system to get free funding that will essentially go into a money sink. Helped by it essentially being an expensive and badly thought out PR stunt on part of the government who will give “unlimited funding”

The ones that are actually successful and willing to work hard may not socialize with their neighbors who aren’t interested in the work at all

These ones who may actually prosper, might become future victims of land seizures themselves

Being black won’t make them immune to all sorts of accusations of being a bunch of Evil Right Wingers and such....they may have to deal with all sorts of "environmentalists" and "animals rights activists" messing with their work from the city

Eventually the CCP will come over and take over, either way

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I get the feeling that farming will be automatized, another job that will go the way of the buggy maker.

 

[Cherico]

I get the feeling that farming will be automatized, another job that will go the way of the buggy maker.

they have been trying to automat it for years it is hard as fuck.

 

[Megadeath]

they have been trying to automat it for years it is hard as fuck.

They have been successful in automating it for decades. Jobs that used to take a hundred people now take one thanks to inventions like the combine harvester. Others that are still manpower intensive like herding or shearing will move that way with improvements in drones and AI robotics.

Hitting an exact point in space and time, with tolerances within a fraction of a percent, whilst riding a throttled explosion, so you can share the sum total knowledge of human information via pulsed laser beam is "Hard as fuck." Ripping the wool off of large stupid animals without injuring them too much, or convincing them to go the direction you want is just a difficulty of economics, not technicalities. As the technology matures and becomes ever cheaper, it will be applied to ever simpler problems.

America wont become an importer of food. Land will be seized or "redistributed" from white farmers, and given to 'diverse communities'. They will discover that farming is very hard and not at all glamorous, and most will sell out to agribusiness. The farms will be consolidated into vast corporate latifundia staffed by managers and worked by cheap and disposable migrant labourers paid at minimum wages and given no benefits.

Lol! Like large agricultural concerns don't exist already? Do you think it's honest, down to earth mom and pop places that supply burger king, taco bell, or McDonald's? That put cheap beef and chicken in the supermarkets?

"About 4% of farms have sales over $1m, but these farms yield two-thirds of total output."

Crop Choices, Farm Size: Changes in a Time of Low Corn and Soybean Prices - Farm Policy News

Recent news articles have documented that lower crop prices for commodities such as corn and soybeans have caused some producers to make changes to their traditional crop rotation, or to consider organic crop production methods. More broadly, a recent Wall Street Journal article noted that...

farmpolicynews.illinois.edu

In other words, if half the little, hard working, mom & pop places closed down, it would basically be irrelevant to the national concerns of America.

When 4% of the market represent 66% of the production, it's a pretty safe bet that it's only market regulation that means you don't have a handful of megacorps producing everything.

 

[ShieldWife]

It could be regulation that leads to mega corps dominating agriculture as much as they do.

 

[Megadeath]

It could be regulation that leads to mega corps dominating agriculture as much as they do.

It could be an evil alliance of fairies and unicorns that leads to such. Or, more likely than either of those it could be that in unregulated capitalism success begets success.

When you do better than the competition, you end up with more money than them. When you have more money, you can bid higher on land for expansion, pay slightly higher wages to attract more and better workers so competitors don't have them, accept a lower percentage profit on sales, since the larger net sales result in better gross regardless.

Now, those are actually all good things. But they only exist when there's competition. Without regulation, those constraints disappear along with your competitors. If you provide better product, at better value and with greater efficiency, a completely free market leaves you as the only provider. And then you can hike the price on product, pay your workers like shit, and offer crappy tender to your suppliers. They've all got to eat it, because there won't be anyone else out there to buy from or supply to.

Now sure, some start up might try to challenge you on a couple of those advantages, but if you're part of the 4% of producers controlling 66% of the market share it's trivially easy to snow them under. Just sell at a loss until they go under. Offer better contracts for a few years, then renegotiate when the competition is gone. Buy out all competition that succeeds, at a price too good to refuse until you have all the usable land.

Regulation is the pressure that pushes back against that monopolisation. How can a lack of regulation help here? How is it in a businesses interests to do anything but maximise profits, and how how is it in their interests to allow competition?

 

[ATP]

It could be regulation that leads to mega corps dominating agriculture as much as they do.

Why do you think Wall street supported it so much ? regulations always kill small business,not them.

 

[Megadeath]

Why do you think Wall street supported it so much ? regulations always kill small business,not them.

In what way exactly has "wall street" supported the regulation of agriculture? What do you even mean by "wall street" in this context? Because to me "wall street" just means the financial market. If your claim is that such a free market kills small business, then... yeah. That's why we try and have regulations to stop them doing that.

Big business will always kill small business. Why the fuck would they not? We institute regulation to try and stop that. If we don't, you'd rather rely on... what exactly? The social conscience of big business? The deep seated moral grounding of the sociopaths who dedicate their lives to the accumulation of ever more millions?

 

[ATP]

In what way exactly has "wall street" supported the regulation of agriculture? What do you even mean by "wall street" in this context? Because to me "wall street" just means the financial market. If your claim is that such a free market kills small business, then... yeah. That's why we try and have regulations to stop them doing that.

Big business will always kill small business. Why the fuck would they not? We institute regulation to try and stop that. If we don't, you'd rather rely on... what exactly? The social conscience of big business? The deep seated moral grounding of the sociopaths who dedicate their lives to the accumulation of ever more millions?

And that regulations kill any small business who try to become bigger.When old big companies live happily.

 

[Megadeath]

And that regulations kill any small business who try to become bigger.When old big companies live happily.

So, your answer to being questioned on your claim is to simply repeat the assertion?

What kills competitors, is the competition. That is why they call it that. Mom & pops soda stall vs PepsiCo will never be a fair fight. It's not government regulations that make it so, it's the fact that PepsiCo buying ingredients at millions of times the rate lets them economise on costs and sell their product cheaper. Having much larger pools of cash lets them research the market and and produce optimised products vs Mom&Pop just guessing they want lemonade. It's them being able to distribute to every corner of the globe, rather than every corner of their block. It's them having the budget to advertise to every fence sitter that their product is backed by scientific testing (That the opposition can't afford) to reduce thirst. It's them being able to pay Mom&Pop more than they'd make from the stall to just sit at home and do nothing till everyone forgets them. It's all that and more, because having money makes it easier to make more money.

So, tell me again how getting rid of government regulations saying Mom&Pop have to wear gloves so they don't spread disease, or how they have to pass health inspection to prove they're not selling kids rotted fruit juice is killing the competition? And then, maybe back up your idea that the free market of wall street is what imposes those restrictions on every business big and small, costing the larger businesses far more? Or... Maybe just repeat your shitty unsupported postion again? That would be fun too.

 

[Scottty]

So it begins?
Here's where it leads.

Ruined Farm You Bastards will stay poor

www.sunray22b.net

The writing is on the door.

 

[Megadeath]

So it begins?
Here's where it leads.

Ruined Farm You Bastards will stay poor

www.sunray22b.net

The writing is on the door.

Oh boy, let me be the first to express my implicit trust in the website that gives us such jewels as "Not all blacks are criminals. Not all criminals are black; some are brown, yellow or Jews" or
"America as a Fascist State
Fascism finished when Mussolini fell, didn't it? No! It ended with Adolf then? No! When the Soviet Empire fell? Yes, for a while. Bush, Congress and the Senate have recreated it in 2006, in the Land of the Once Free and the Brave." or perhaps
"Todays Girl
They are meant to cheer you up. Some of them look rather special.
For more go to
Girl or to
Girl of the Day
or even
Girls Galore"

That certainly doesn't sound like a crackpot we should ignore when it comes to racial and social issues, no sir-ee!

 

[Scottty]

Oh boy, let me be the first to express my implicit trust in the website that gives us such jewels as "Not all blacks are criminals. Not all criminals are black; some are brown, yellow or Jews" or
"America as a Fascist State
Fascism finished when Mussolini fell, didn't it? No! It ended with Adolf then? No! When the Soviet Empire fell? Yes, for a while. Bush, Congress and the Senate have recreated it in 2006, in the Land of the Once Free and the Brave." or perhaps
"Todays Girl
They are meant to cheer you up. Some of them look rather special.
For more go to
Girl or to
Girl of the Day
or even
Girls Galore"

That certainly doesn't sound like a crackpot we should ignore when it comes to racial and social issues, no sir-ee!

Eh. I just googled for a picture of that message on a door, and used the first site that came up.

 

[UberSink]

That certainly doesn't sound like a crackpot we should ignore when it comes to racial and social issues, no sir-ee!

I checked it out and this is another page

garbage

 

[Morphic Tide]

And then, maybe back up your idea that the free market of wall street is what imposes those restrictions on every business big and small, costing the larger businesses far more?

The underlying thing is that small businesses survive lacking economies of scale, while large businesses have plenty of margin they can survive without from those efficiencies and many compliance costs are relatively flat, so they can afford to have piles of regulations without it being an issue, but the mom and pop shops don't have the margin to lose 5% of income and a flat $150,000 to regulations, for an example.

The way regulations have been structured unnaturally expands the innate advantages of being big, because what it takes away is much more survivable for a large business, thus strangling out startups and family stores that could become competitors. It's not a mom and pop store against PepsiCo, it's PepsiCo on the receiving end from Coca Cola when it was getting set up, it's all sorts of retail against the nigh-infinite margin bank of Amazon Web Services, it's tipping the scales from irrelevance to bankruptcy.

 

[Sailor.X]

You know nothing stopping Rural Black Farmers from forming these. Agricultural cooperative - Wikipedia
On my moms side we have and have had plenty of successful Black owned Farms. Doubting that it can't be done in Africa proper by the local Black population with just a little help is to be frank patronizing.

 

[Argent]

I fully support this legislation as a necessary and critical step in creating a black yeomanry to counteract the negative effects of the ghettos. We had land grants for decades, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this and the claim it’s somehow linked to land seizures isn’t remotely supported.

It won't do anything but make failed farms and doesn't look to solve the problems facing present famrers. With new farmers soon facing the same problems without the ingrained culture and local support network built up over generations.

Maybe if you give land to existing farmers it could help but then you need land next previous farms which is hard to come by. Any plan to expand existing farms requires luck since there are not millions of acres of empty land to hand out is just a bad plan.

Then you get into the size problems. The average size of a farm in Amercia is more then double 160 maximum that this would provide coming in at 444 acres. Most smaller farmers are forming companies like Moink and coops to help compete because economy of scale is a real killer for idealized family farm that media and city folk think about.

You can tell that this bill is supported by senators and representatives from states like NJ and Massachusetts instead of massive farming states like Nebraska or even Minnesota. The farming culture of New Jersey is made up of small hobby farms with an attached winery that sell high end goods to rich people from New York and Philadelphia. Most of these are more corporation then the standard family owned farm too.

It is also set in the mindset of 100 years ago. Being a farmer does not set up the generational wealth that it did when Amercia tamed the West. The Homestead act gave away free land and created revenue for the government with land to spare for the heirs to each get their own farm. This is going to be a massive expenditure for little gains. The trick now is to form a culture that values college education that looks at degrees with earning potential.

Then you have the problem finding a heir to take over the farm. Many families have more then one kid and most of the time none of them want to take over. This causes a bit of a fire sale as neighboring farms buy it up. Even if you have a willing heir unless the parents want to cut the other out of the will the liquid funds will disappear or the farm will devolve into small useless parcels of land that are only good for being sold off.

A different popular option is to rent out the land to farmers with a rent to own option. That is how a lot of the Hmong families are getting farms. They also formed a coop to help fund land purchases and arrange for purchase orders.

The other question I have is if there is a bunch of black peopl in cities that want to be farmers. Because farming is not a lifestyle for everyone.

Farming is not a job for everyone. It is very boom and bust. Even with ranch and farm insurance a bad season can put you in the red for years.

Not to mention that while farmers are "Millionaires" it is mainly in land. They don't live the high life of the rich 20 something that T.V. loves to show. While you can make a good salary it takes long hours and lots of hard physical labor. You have to be book keeper, mechanic, carpenter, meteorologist and about a dozen other things. You also have to live outside of a city. This means they can no longer hit the clubs, see the latest play, that new restuarant is 40 minutes away.

Just like the military being a farmer is a lifestyle. Not many people will enjoy it or even want to try it. Most likely you see the same land going for sale in 5 years to a corporate farm. I have not seen the willingness of poorer black city folk wanting to move to the country and run a farm Green Acres or Bless This Mess stlye. Unlike what I have seen with the local Hispanic or Hmong communities that have a tradition of farming and willingness to continue it.


The other problem with this bill is that I am personal against race based bills like this. I find that they tend to favor one minority over the other and complete for that poor white also exist and nothing but create a culture of low expectations and resentment.

While the posters comparing this to South Africa are strawmanning I don't see much good coming from this. Even with the grants to traditional black colleges to expand this agriculture related programs. Big schools like University of Minnesota or NDSU both have trouble filling all their spots and have great programs. Overall this feels like a bill that is based of pop history of Amercia westward journey.